Infidelity Support Group
Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after...
Cole50
Something struck me today (no, not my wife's backhand) and I had a thought. Wondered if my experience coincided with that of others in this regard, of both sexes. Not my specific experience I'm about to relate, mind you, but the point I'll bring up out of it.
My first semester in college, 1979, I started dating my first time seriously. And she instigated things mostly, as I was naive in the ways of dating and such, not having done any of it during high school, as it just wasn't on my radar screen as something I wanted to do. Other factors but that's mostly it.
Anyway, we dated that whole first semester, and when I came back from Christmas break, she met me and told me that she'd fallen out of love with me. Which seemed very odd to me. But we broke up at that point. By the end of the second semester, she was getting what she really wanted from me, but I was going way too slow for her. She got her Mrs. degree from another guy in school so she didn't have to go back home for the summer semester.
Well, during that first semester, despite spending hours every evening kissing and cuddling, I never once touched her breast with my hands or attempted to take her clothes off, or the like. One time she asked if she could rub my belly. I said sure. She unbuttoned my shirt and did so, slowly nudging her fingers slightly under my belt and pants, but never going more than a quarter inch in.
I think she was trying to get me going, but she didn't want to be the one to initiate sex. She wanted me to get excited and want her. The fact I didn't respond that way probably disappointed her, because she probably got the idea that I didn't want her.
But that was far from the truth. The fact of the matter was that I respected her too much to use her like that. Because I loved her, I wouldn't treat her like a sex object. What I've come to realize, is she wanted me to treat her like a sex object. She'd read one too many romance novels, and when I didn't respond like the guys in those novels, she "fell out of love" with me.
That got me to thinking, because my W so wanted the attention of men, and wanted men to notice her, and is what got her in trouble. And the first guy she had mostly an EA with, she knew he would only use her and throw her away when he was done, but she didn't care.
I was perplexed about that, because I was astounded that she didn't respect herself more than that. To me, being willing to be used as a sex object means you have zero respect for yourself, giving away the pearls of your life for a wink and a nod. I don't get it at all.
Now, I know statistics show that women tend to have more self-esteem issues than men. I know that girl I dated had some serious self-esteem issues. She would say things like, "No one would want me, my breast are too small." Despite my assurances that I loved her and didn't think they were too small, she felt unattractive. And I guess the fact I didn't want to have sex with her out of respect for her dignity as a person was translated in her mind that I didn't love her, didn't want her.
Likewise, my W was much skinner and sexier when I dated her than she was when she felt skinny and sexy before and during the affair, plus she didn't have loose skin back then due to pregnancies. But no matter how I told her back then that she wasn't fat, she didn't believe me. She felt fat and unattractive.
So I'm wondering just how much of a role women play in the whole cheating thing? I mean, of course for every man there is a woman who participated (assuming heterosexual cheating). But I'm thinking there is a dynamic here that promotes this kind of behavior.
First, you have the men who are often sex driven and want to get it anyway they can, or just the excitement of a relationship. But then there are the women who seem to send out signals, "Here I am, I'm available and want you!"
When I told my W that I do sometimes glance at women's butts, but I don't want them to see me, she stated something like most women like to know they are being appreciated. And I have to admit, why would you dress to accentuate your physical features if you didn't want them to be admired. But still, I would feel very uncomfortable if I were them dressing like that or knowing that someone was examining my butt. Not smiling and happy about it.
To me, this just shows a lack of respect for ones self, and a self-esteem that needs stoking to be willing to be treated as a sex object. I had always operated under the premise that most women didn't want to be treated that way. That they would respect themselves enough not to stoop to that level. But now I'm not sure how true that assumption is. My W was literally sending out "I'm sexy" vibes and it attracted men, even though she's not a "hot model" type body. Not bad by any means, but not the stereotypical Barbie figure either. Still, just her attitude made her sexy because her self-esteem needed that affirmation, and she didn't respect herself enough to not be thrown on the altar of being a sex toy.
So am I off on this? Do women become men magnets by acting flirty and sexy result from a lack of self-respect and/or self-esteem that they are wiling to throw themselves at men without any kind of long term commitment to family that the act presupposes? Or is there some other dynamic I'm missing here?
And I guess that also goes back to Leona's assertions of women who become enablers for some of the same reasons.
My first semester in college, 1979, I started dating my first time seriously. And she instigated things mostly, as I was naive in the ways of dating and such, not having done any of it during high school, as it just wasn't on my radar screen as something I wanted to do. Other factors but that's mostly it.
Anyway, we dated that whole first semester, and when I came back from Christmas break, she met me and told me that she'd fallen out of love with me. Which seemed very odd to me. But we broke up at that point. By the end of the second semester, she was getting what she really wanted from me, but I was going way too slow for her. She got her Mrs. degree from another guy in school so she didn't have to go back home for the summer semester.
Well, during that first semester, despite spending hours every evening kissing and cuddling, I never once touched her breast with my hands or attempted to take her clothes off, or the like. One time she asked if she could rub my belly. I said sure. She unbuttoned my shirt and did so, slowly nudging her fingers slightly under my belt and pants, but never going more than a quarter inch in.
I think she was trying to get me going, but she didn't want to be the one to initiate sex. She wanted me to get excited and want her. The fact I didn't respond that way probably disappointed her, because she probably got the idea that I didn't want her.
But that was far from the truth. The fact of the matter was that I respected her too much to use her like that. Because I loved her, I wouldn't treat her like a sex object. What I've come to realize, is she wanted me to treat her like a sex object. She'd read one too many romance novels, and when I didn't respond like the guys in those novels, she "fell out of love" with me.
That got me to thinking, because my W so wanted the attention of men, and wanted men to notice her, and is what got her in trouble. And the first guy she had mostly an EA with, she knew he would only use her and throw her away when he was done, but she didn't care.
I was perplexed about that, because I was astounded that she didn't respect herself more than that. To me, being willing to be used as a sex object means you have zero respect for yourself, giving away the pearls of your life for a wink and a nod. I don't get it at all.
Now, I know statistics show that women tend to have more self-esteem issues than men. I know that girl I dated had some serious self-esteem issues. She would say things like, "No one would want me, my breast are too small." Despite my assurances that I loved her and didn't think they were too small, she felt unattractive. And I guess the fact I didn't want to have sex with her out of respect for her dignity as a person was translated in her mind that I didn't love her, didn't want her.
Likewise, my W was much skinner and sexier when I dated her than she was when she felt skinny and sexy before and during the affair, plus she didn't have loose skin back then due to pregnancies. But no matter how I told her back then that she wasn't fat, she didn't believe me. She felt fat and unattractive.
So I'm wondering just how much of a role women play in the whole cheating thing? I mean, of course for every man there is a woman who participated (assuming heterosexual cheating). But I'm thinking there is a dynamic here that promotes this kind of behavior.
First, you have the men who are often sex driven and want to get it anyway they can, or just the excitement of a relationship. But then there are the women who seem to send out signals, "Here I am, I'm available and want you!"
When I told my W that I do sometimes glance at women's butts, but I don't want them to see me, she stated something like most women like to know they are being appreciated. And I have to admit, why would you dress to accentuate your physical features if you didn't want them to be admired. But still, I would feel very uncomfortable if I were them dressing like that or knowing that someone was examining my butt. Not smiling and happy about it.
To me, this just shows a lack of respect for ones self, and a self-esteem that needs stoking to be willing to be treated as a sex object. I had always operated under the premise that most women didn't want to be treated that way. That they would respect themselves enough not to stoop to that level. But now I'm not sure how true that assumption is. My W was literally sending out "I'm sexy" vibes and it attracted men, even though she's not a "hot model" type body. Not bad by any means, but not the stereotypical Barbie figure either. Still, just her attitude made her sexy because her self-esteem needed that affirmation, and she didn't respect herself enough to not be thrown on the altar of being a sex toy.
So am I off on this? Do women become men magnets by acting flirty and sexy result from a lack of self-respect and/or self-esteem that they are wiling to throw themselves at men without any kind of long term commitment to family that the act presupposes? Or is there some other dynamic I'm missing here?
And I guess that also goes back to Leona's assertions of women who become enablers for some of the same reasons.
@Cole
I have stayed out of this post in the beginning, and then when things turned sour, for you, I defended you, and then you say something to the effect of not touching what I wrote with a 10ft. pole. So, I'm out.
Seems you ignored the gist of it, and my effort! I guess you have a little too much on your mind, right now! But I did predict this long ago, that you still had to process the feelings, cuz at first you did it all "intellectually". So I think htis is to be expected; feelings still need to be processed for most of us, no matter how much we try to understand, analyze, and "intellectualize" about it. The point is: infidelity is an emotional situation, and even when ya think you are done with the forgiveness, and processing of all the emotions, the grief part revisits as much as it needs to .
You are still grieving the loss of losing Gabi's choice to share her body with someone else. Sorry about that, but it is said and done, and see what she can do to help you heal from this loss. Apparently it is still a huge deal to you! Oh, and now you are also focusing on your daughter's choice to share her body, which happened what 7-8 years ago??? That's a long time ago! One trigger probably lead to another trigger! Sorry for your pain!
Peace out!
It had nothing to do with you or what you wrote. I got what you meant and as I recall, pretty much agree with it. I only was saying I couldn't respond to the part about physical appearance because if I did I would end up continuing what everyone is complaining about me doing. I'm apparently offending people by talking about that. Not you, obviously. But some. And now I've offended you as well, so I can't win for losing.
And of course I'm hurting. Never denied that. And we all know, no matter how much time has passed on these things, that they will rear their ugly heads from time to time. Then you're dealing with it. That's the process that I've always known is there. Has nothing to do with intellecutalization. It's just what is. Pain is pain when you feel it. Not when you artificially force it to appear. I'm not forcing my pain to be felt, nor am I ignoring it when it does.
I'm sure I'll have instances for the rest of my life that I'll feel this pain, on both instances. We learn to deal with it.
But not wanting to comment on your appearance aspect was only because I didn't want to have a bunch of people once again yelling at me to stop talking about it. I thought that was painfully clear. Nothing to do about you and what you said.
Sorry for offending you as well. I appreciate your input.
You really didn't offend me, sir! It takes quite a bit to do so. Usually one requirement is when I know an indidual is being a "douche" or a "knuckledragger", because they intend to stab like a knife, since they have no other recourse.
Actually only one person here, thus far has offended me in 3 years, and I remind myself to "consider the source", "look at their previous behavior", and "look at their communication style".
So, you Cole, are good by me, not to worry! I generally stick up for the underdog, lol, that's why I chose m y career as I did, working with folks on the Autism Spectrum, and Learning Disabled children. I never perceived you intended to insult me, offend me, or hurt me, so please take that one off the table.
I do admit, there are times, when occasionally, alot of people jump on the "bandwagon", and I've been guilty of that too, when someone is just being plain rude and ignorant.....but I try not to do that, and have refrained many a time. I choose to be supportive whenever I can, attempt to describe my perspective, and choose to be a peacemaker, a truth-seeker, a truth-speaker, but also like to keep some level of compassion and/or gentleness. My choice, may not always be popular, here or in real life....but then being popular is not my goal. Being in a contest is not my goal. Being queen of the board, is not my goal! We already know LSTecker is the queen of this board, and I think most of us voted her as such, and she earned it! ;-)
However, something she taught me is, if needed, you do sometimes have to be "a bitch like that", when it's called for....but with you Cole....I highly doubt it...ever!!!
Hope you have a nice day, and can return to some peace, serenity, and calmness! Peace out my friend!
Thanks.
Oh, and yes, you are very welcome! lol
N
You know, you can just say, Hey I am having a bad day today. I think we might have a clue on that one.
Evident in all I've already written. Go read the original note. You're way off on your comments, and I've already responded to this enough. Fishy sees the little worm but ain't biting.
@lisette,
Sometimes you don't really know you're having a bad day when it is a bunch of little things, until it explodes on you. Although Gab didn't have a bad day. Just me. Nothing critical, but enough that my normal calm wasn't in place.
Thanks for understanding.
I agree with your excellent point, Cole.
(((((hugs 2U2))))))
In my opinion, the GF not asking for sex (if that is indeed what she wanted) shows more lack of self-esteem than her wanting it. (pssst, even back in the 1800's women wanted sex)...