So, it may be okay to continue being sexual with one's own spouse, if one is able to sustain a healthy sexual relationship. If that were the case, I wonder if you would be here, Cindy? Are you capable of healthy relating or are you driven by compulsion?

Now, if you will return to the beginning of this lovely debate, you will note that I merely asked what kinds of feelings come up for you IF you abstain. Just the idea of facing those feelings was enough to prompt you to deny the addiction you've previously claimed as your own in at least three rooms on these boards. If it's really no big deal, not an issue of actual addiction, then I would think the idea of stopping would also be no big deal. As in 'I'm not addicted, I can quit anytime I want'. Can you quit anytime you want, Cindy? Are you really in control of this, or has it got control over you?

If just the idea of facing your feelings, not even the act of actually going through with it, has you diving under the cover of denial, then my suspicion is that you are not in the drivers seat.

heard, there is recovery and then there is therapy. Engaging in therapy without first removing the drug of choice from the equation has proven, over and over again, to be ineffective. Look at the system of recovery: first people go to detox for a week or so to get the substance out of their system. Then, when their feelings have had a chance to bubble up from where the drug has kept them buried, they might enter into residential treatment which would include therapy, or into therapy on it's own if residential treatment is not optimal.

While entering into therapy would be starting from square one in terms of information, we already have Cindy's disclosures to go on here. She has self-diagnosed and faced the fact of her addiction. Whether or not she's addicted is really not much of a question anymore. She knows that she is. The question now is what she's willing to do about it.

I'm really not concerned about softening my approach, by the way, heard. You don't like my style, that's clear enough, and I'm not particularly enamored with yours. C'est la vie. If people lack the maturity to take information or advice straight up, without a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down, that is not my problem. You may prefer to drizzle your advice in honey, and you are entitled to that approach. I only wish that you were not using such honey to make misinformation look like a healthy choice.

I do not intend to jump into a debate or take sides, but I do want to share what I know about all of this from firsthand experience. I was married to a sex addict. He was officially diagnosed by a specialist, the only one in our city actually. I wasn't a huge fan of that particular gentleman because he was full of excuses and permissions, but that's beside the point.

My husband first only admitted to cyber issues - porn, sexting, cyber sex chats, and compulsive masturbation. It was deeply affecting our sex life, though, and he had cheated on me one time that I knew of. He didn't seek professional help until a few months after my last discovery. At that point the therapist (who was personally trained by Patrick Carnes, the leading expert on sex addiction) put a plan in place. It required therapy, sexaholics anonymous meetings weekly, medication to address his anxiety/depression issues, and no masturbation, pornography, or other cyber sex. Many people in SA suggested a 30, 60 or 90 day abstinence period from all sex, even with me, but he never agreed to that. That particular approach is pretty common and standard.

The key to all of it is that the person has to be willing and has to be doing it for themselves. Honesty and accountability to someone (usually a therapist or sponsor, NEVER a spouse) is critical. My husband didn't have the honesty factor ever. 2 years into "recovery" he was still lying, and I discovered 4 people he cheated on me with and a pattern of meeting random people from chat rooms for sex (he didn't even know the real number but estimated 50 people or so), much of it unprotected.

I share that to say that fiber is mostly right when it comes to treatment. A period of abstinence is recommended in many cases. I don't even think she was demanding that Cindy do that, just asking if she might be willing and what feelings she thinks may come up. I am also a very, very sexual person. I haven't engaged in risky or casual sex. However, I have been considering a period of abstinence myself just to clear my head and separate sex from my other feelings. Even without being an addict I know that would be a difficult prospect.

I am processing all of this and will weigh in later. I appreciate the input. Thank you.

There is so much to respond to. I will try to do so in one post…

First, fiber’s points. ‘What do you really want?’ and ‘are you hoping to find a way to keep these toxic relationships, etc?’… I want my narc, because I love him. I know I will NOT be able to keep that relationship, because he will never reciprocate my feelings and he will continue to hurt me over and over again. Does this in itself mean that I am a sex addict? I really don’t think so. He pursued me and I fell in love. The other lovers were to help me forget narc and move on. The first one (who I am no longer seeing) did not help in that regard. The second one (the one who I stupidly…yes, I admit, very stupid…visited at his home without meeting in public first) HAS been helping with that. It is a mutual booty call kind of arrangement, but he talks to me and holds me afterward and makes me feel like a lover. I enjoy my time with him and I do not feel I am getting too attached. He is overseas for a couple weeks and I plan to stay away from meeting anybody else. I suppose this will be the test as to whether I really can resist on my own or not.

So, yes, I suppose there is some self-medicating going on, but it is medicating to numb the pain over the narc and it is slowly working (with occasional relapses, but I am no longer crying every day).

Is it sex or love addiction, or some combination of both…? I do have some problems with what I read over on the sex addiction board. Masturbation ‘Bad’…uh, no, it is perfectly natural. Underwear ads are ‘soft core porn’? On what Victorian planet…? Total abstinence…? We are all sexual beings…a food addict would not be told to abstain from eating. Sex is not like cocaine or cigarettes. No amount of those two substances is healthy. However, like food, sex is a healthy and natural part of the human experience.

Thank you for your support, heard. Yes, over on the Sex and Porn addiction board, there was a reply to fiber’s question about abstinence to say that married people do not have to abstain. Absolutely, I agree that I need therapy at some point. It is just a matter of finding the right type and the right therapist.

It's just a matter of taking the first step and actually looking for one. I won't bother to quote all the times you've named yourself as an addict. That's all conveniently forgotten now.

Best of luck. I, like so many others, give up.

No, screw that. If you cherry pick only the responses you're willing to accept in a group like Sex/Porn Addiction, and take the advice of the one nut-bar who says what you want to hear, then that nut-bar will give you permission to do as you please.

Of course married people do not HAVE TO abstain...no one HAS TO do anything. There are simply paths that take you to where you need to be and paths that don't.

So I will ask you again. Where do you hope to end up? What do you want to achieve? I mean beyond wanting the Narc you can't have. What kind of future do you hope to have for yourself?

For the record, I never said that masturbation is Bad, nor did I say that underwear ads are softcore porn. And, yes, I do know that you didn't say I said that. What I'm telling you isn't about being Victorian, though it's interesting that you choose to hide behind that judgmental label. If we were talking about healthy sex here, well, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I think that you know that there's nothing healthy about your sexual choices, otherwise why on Earth would you be here looking for support? When you use sex in the way that you do, as a drug, it is not healthy. f you're really okay with what you're doing, if it's working for you and it's healthy...THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?

Listen fiber stop talking about me in every single response. . you are the nut and everyone here knows it..
You are northern educated or a shrink so stop acting like you are, cause your not, not even close.

Cindy don't let this person or anyone label you. Especially someone so angry and bitter in her own skin. She likes to put others down because she dislikes herself and her life so much that she tries to make others look worse than her. She g e'er s off on it to make herself not look so bad. Pathetic and cruel and not to be trusted in what she says. You and only you know yourself best here. Nobody knows you better than yourself. Keep your head held high, and continue to come here for real support from some really good people -1 idiot...
Hugs heard

Stupid phone typos.. not northern but neither educated
Lol

Fiber: I think the nut bar comment was uncalled-for and inappropriate.

You asked a question in Sex/Porn addiction and it was answered, tho not to your liking. No, I did not say that you said anything about either masturbation or underwear ads, but that is what I see from the addicts on that board and my point was that I cannot accept having such a puritan (yes, Victorian) view of sexuality. I am anti-censorship and an atheist. Even if I admit I am an addict, I have a hard time accepting some of those views.

I have been around this website off-and-on since 2007. I have before been challenged as to why I am here. Why shouldn't I be here? I originally came back this time to deal with the pain that has resulted from my love of a narcissist. Surely you remember? After all, you are the one who first labelled him as such. I then did some research and realized that you were indeed right about that,

I was referring to the guy who responded to my thread on SA, the same thread to which Cindy referred.

Thank you, heard. I appreciate the non - judgmental support.

Cindy, I'm just trying to get a handle on what you need. You are not clear.

Fair enough. Part of the problem is that I am not clear in my own mind. i thought I was over narc, but he did some public flirting on Friday and I was in tears again. clearly, I am not over him yet. The person I call 'AFF guy' (the one I stupidly visited without knowing first) appeals to me in enough ways that he is helping to an extent. He is overseas for a couple weeks, tho, and I am obviously relapsing.

I agree that I do need therapy. I am afraid, though.

The previous very personal attack against me has been reported as the abuse that it is.