Listen in the early days of my breakup when my ex wife walked out I wouldve done anything to get her back..I too helped her in so many things, gave her a ton of furniture when my mom passed away, helped her with resumes and applications when she got her ass canned (from a 17 year job, they obviously didnt like the new "her"), I went above and beyond...where did it get me? NOWHERE. She was already banging someone else I didnt know about. OUR daughters boyfriends dad!! Soooo...from my own experience, do NOT help her at all, especially with a damn elective procedure..boob job? Something to make her more attractive??? CMON MAN!!! I know it hurts but dude....gotta say no to that!

I know, its niave of me to think otherwise... There could be someone else... i dont see how or when... Like i said before, i sadly think the "other man" right now is her new Job... Its all she talks about and cares about... There isn't time for another man to be around unless its during work hours, which i would be shocked to find out since it would jeapordize the very job she loves so much and felt i didn't support her with. Out side of the job, i know where she is, up until 3 weeks ago, we were always together, and when we weren't she is with our kids without me.. She wouldn't have another man around with the kids, and my 3 year old would say something..... Could there be an emotional connection some where.. yes, but nothing physical at least not yet. as far as the surgery, its not a boob job, Its minor lipo on her stomach to get rid of the final baby fat she has never been able to get rid if. Litterly maybe 5 pounds worth. I know for her we talked about it for months even prior to seperation... its more of a self esteem thing. However, your 100% correct, im aware that this will make her feel more attractive to other men, and that could be part of her motive, ill never know. I hear what everyone is saying, i also firmly believe and I say this with no disrespect, that we all are in similar but different situations. Some where cheated on, some are not. These variances in situations will also change the course of advice. I fully respect and value it all, and im very sorry to hear the different types of pain we all share. Can she be having an affair... anything is possible... but given the facts i have so far, its not the case... not yet atleast... will it happen in the future... possible. But i talk to her mother and brother closely, they are on my side... and when she is staying there.. I know she is there.... There just hasn't been an opportunity for her to have a physical affair...

You are absolutely correct...you need to do what you feel is right for you. Don't judge the responses we give too much because it is our own perspective on what happened to us...take them with a grain of salt. I think we all just want you to be careful and not get stepped on. Think of it that we have your back :)

"Facts"......right, OK whatever. I mean she can be banging a guy right after work for 1hr before coming home. What about when she left you with the kids and went "shopping for hours", or when you slept out and the kids go to bed?

"She was already banging someone else I didnt know about. OUR daughters boyfriends dad!!"

Oh my goodness...talk about crass. I mean she couldn't even look far flung to bang a person, she had to go where her own daughter went i.e. same family. Lord Almighty

Now the son and dad can compare notes on who is better, mom or daughter (not funny I know). Some women just don't have any shame, and that little tingling between their legs will make them do dumb things.

Why anyone who has been married before and seen things, will ever want to get married again, is beyond me. It's obvious that only 1 party has more to gain than lose.

So we had marriage counseling last night, 3rd time with the new counsler... It was the most encouraging of them all so far. by no means am i out of the woods or have things changed to much as i still slept out last night and she plans to stay at her moms tonight... However there was progress made as to whats wrong... One thing brought up was something from little over a year ago, I worked with a girl who was in ohio, i am in NY. and for work we at times texted but mostly chatted on an internal work chat system. It was always appriote, although one time, our convo started at the office, and she left to work from home.. I cracked a joke saying yeah like your really working at home... she made a comment about her dog trying to get under a blanket with her, and then sent me a pic of her laptop on her lap... I cracked a joke saying whats that under the blanket... taken our of context... complely not appropriate and not my intention.. but my wife saw it... At the time i apologized and explained it, i thought it was all ok. But apparenly since that day she got a sence of rejection... and said last night that she grew up around her brothers friends cheating and such, and she feel in love with me and married me because she always knew i wasn't like that... That day she lost that sense in me... she never talked ot me about it, but instead if festered in her over the last year and made her become distant, which caused other issues. I explained to her, that i have never ever cheated on her, and I would never ever do such a think, I am a million percent devoted to her, I said, if she hears anything from me tonight, please hear me when i say, NEVER cheated on you... and I cherish our family and marriage. It seemed to register but who knows... a few other minor things came up like feeling she is under my thumb.. because i would get upset if i texted her and she didn't respond right away... This isn't entirely true, but i didn't argue it, that will be another time. For the interest of this thread... I didn't care if she responded right away or not, but it would upset me if she said something like, ill call you in a bit and 3 hours later nothing... If you can't talk you can't talk, but atleast let me know. ( not a big deal to me so im not making it one now ). The more encouraging thing was, the therapist asked her why not find a way to not feel under his thumb and stay together? TO have a her, me and us relationship ( this is exactly what i have said to her in the past.. He followed it by saying, do you really want a seperate life, house, shared custody, or do you think its worth achieving a life together thats hers, mine and us... She responded by saying she is prepared for both.... Not the ultimate response to get, but the encouraging part is that until that statement she seemed set in its over... Another topic of Hope came up, she mentioned last weekend about not talking about certain things because she doesn't want me to take it as hope.... last night she mentioned one of the things she hasn't talked about is how much she cares about me.. she cares deeply and is upset that i think she hates me... im still a bit at a loss as to why its bad to have hope... but the fact that she cares deeply about me is also encouraging. So time will tell... She asked me to get lunch tomorrow.. another small sign.. but im not going to read to much into right now. One day at a time.

Oh ESL12, I hope it is different for you. I can't help seeing similarities to my situation, and for me it only led to more pain. At one point, I was actually so happy that she "let me" clean out her gutters for her, and she "let me" get her Christmas tree and put it up for her (even though she was in FL with her guy). I'm only starting to see with clear eyes now, and I've got a long way to go. I hope you aren't toyed with or used, and that you can detach and see clearly as I could not. I hope your hope is not false hope, but if it is, that you see it quickly and limit the pain. I was such a mess - waiting so anxiously to see if she would text me goodnight, and if she didn't text "I love you," wondering what I did wrong, leaving work early to be sure I bought her favorite salad fresh on the way home to grill her tenderloin steak because she said she was going to come over for dinner. Mowing her lawn for her while she was on "vacation" with Neil.

There were so many conditions and rules: Never initiate - always wait for her to initiate (anything from a visit, dinner invite, sex...), don't ride a bicycle within so many feet of her bike, never ask her about commitment or fidelity, if I invite her to a concert, and she invites her daughters too, I pay for all, and if she decides she doesn't want my company all of a sudden, she needs alone time with her girls so I eat my ticket and they all go without me... She can take ALL of her vacation time to stay with Neil in FL, but I can never mention him, never try to hug me or touch me if I am in the kitchen or on the computer - in fact, add that to the "let me initiate" rule... And on and on. I could never be perfect enough not to violate some rule that I mostly didn't even know about until that moment.

Add to that all of the "I was going to, but you..." It was a favorite. I was actually going to make love with you tonight, but you asked and you know you are supposed to let me initiate. I was going to go to dinner with you, but you (fill in the blank with mostly absurd things)...

I'm starting to see how pathetic I became, and how I was used - intentionally or not. I'm not angry as I rarely get mad, but I'm waking up anyway. Today is a milestone. I miss her and lover her, but I don't want her back! I believe I deserve a little respect and to be treated better.

Again, I hope it is different for you, but be careful of your heartstrings, it is so easy to for her to tug them.

@mlewis....glad to see you are finally waking up and smelling the roses / coffee...this woman was nothing but a conniving (insert what you like), and hope your story will act as a wake up call to both males and females that might find themselves in such situations.

"I was actually so happy that she "let me" clean out her gutters for her, and she "let me" get her Christmas tree and put it up for her (even though she was in FL with her guy)"......the irony in this comment by you, only that it was someone else that was actually cleaning her gutter. Sorry I just had to go there

Then this " Mowing her lawn for her while she was on "vacation" with Neil. "......

"I'm starting to see how pathetic I became, and how I was used - intentionally or not. I'm not angry as I rarely get mad, but I'm waking up anyway."....well, now we are getting somewhere.

"but I don't want her back! I believe I deserve a little respect and to be treated better. ".....bloody hell, finally those magic words :-)

@mlewisct - Wow, that sounds like a terrible painful ride and im so sorry to hear you had to go through it all... My situation seems different then yours, atleast at the moment, im not really doing much for her, i am doing as much as i can for the kids though, and a small part of that is making sure there home is maintained. but i should add, she is doing things for me still too, like my laundry, and when food shopping, picking up the things i like. We dont really have any rules, in fact at times through this, we have hugged, kiss on cheek.. etc. and has been initiated by both of us, although not everyday, it has happend. I dont have all the answers, and of course everyones opinion could be right. and this may make me a fool, but im a smart guy, i investigate and can read people well. I dont think she has any ill intentions right now.. she cares for me alot and just wants us both happy. She is feeling that apart will make her happier, and she wants me to be happy... She has stated that she felt i was unhappy... Ive explained thats farthest from the truth, i was the happiest guy around until seperation talk came up. I married her for many reasons.. I love her for many reasons... and alot of those reasons make me feel she isn't and wouldn't ever cheat on me. This may make me sound like a fool, but to truely honor and love my wife, I have to trust her and devote myself to her as she should of me. Right now, i feel this isn't about someone else, this is about emotional issues she is going through dealing with several things, not just about me. My son of 2 years with autism was hard on her, her parents divorce, and emotional abandonment of her own father are all weighing in on this. Does means it fair to me, but at the same time i need to stick by my wife, hold on to my love for her and hope she can pull herself out enough to let me help her too. What kinda husband would it make me bail at signs of trouble? Yes of course there is only so much time ill be able to take, and at some point i may have no choice but to give up... but its been 3 and half hard weeks for me, I miss her dearly and im not willing to cast her as a whore and give up on her yet. Its not her, she just wouldn't do it. We can't compare wife to wife, yours, mine are all different people with different up bringings and different feelings. Im not saying any of your points aren't valid they all could be... but i need to maintain hope and faith in my wife while I still can. time will tell.

I felt the same way @ESL, until yesterday for some reason, and I wish you the best. You are absolutely right that each person and situation is unique.

ESL 12 i want to thank you for your honest and intelligent shares. I have been separated from my husband of 12 years and the father of our three children for a few weeks now and it has been agony.. even though I am the one who called for the separation. A part of me knows that I am happier and more peaceful without him around even though it's hard raising kids alone. I put up with so much mistreatment for so long without realising it. My needs were not being met emotionally financially or sexually and over the past year we made many changes in our lives. Moving out of the city homeschooling our children taking a more natural approach to life.. But it didn't work and in my pain and needinessI was unfaithful. My birth family who am I not even close to are devastated and encouraging me to work on saving the marriage. And I have now started to want to do that- but Im not sure whether it's just my fear of the unknown and starting anew. At this point Im not even sure whether my husband wants to remain married. Its so complex and I just want to say thank you. Your words helped me..

@Rita44...any reason why the father of the kids is not part of their lives? Additionally you said you were unfaithful with your husband...did you ever communicate any of your concerns to him over the years?

Kids need to be in school if there isn't any health concerns keeping them from interacting with other kids....last thing you want is socially awkward kids. Furthermore, no adult should be depending on another person financially, it's what kids do not adults. A lot of people wonder why they end up being denied money..it's like getting handout of the Govt, they can control it as they see fit.

@Rita... Thank you for sharing, it seems some of your feelings are similar to what i now know about my wife's feelings. The real issue though was her not communicating them to me the moment she thought or felt an issue. She kept it inside and thats only going to build resentment and eventually explode. I dont know you or your husband, but if you feel deep in your heart you are at part to blame, and you could do things a bit better to make things work, Id give it a try. In the end you can atleast look at yourself and say you did all you can do. It does sound like you crossed some lines, those will be hard to get past. Your husband if willing would have to forgive and allow you both to move on together in some way. easier said then done. I wish i knew my wife had the feelings you have now of wanting to save the marriage. There is no gaurantee it will work, and i agree we shouldn't stay together just for the kids... But if we could work on it and make us stronger and happier then we ever were.. there is no better solution then that for not only ourselves but for our kids too.

I also feel that seperation although hard is the easy road. Im not saying its a bad thing you took this path, but it is essentially running from the issues rather then dealing with them. Dealing with them would mean looking deep within yourself and your husband, acknowledging your own faults and working on them. Thats the hard work, but it takes two willing people to achieve that. Right now my wife doesn't seem to willing. I wish you all the luck in the world what ever path you take. Let me know how things go for you, id love to hear a success story one way or the other.

Meeting for lunch today, although the real reason is to sign some papers for a small loan... but she did also mention lunch, i guess she could have said just sign and leave. ;o( I dont know what to make of anything these days. Just keep wishing for that moment of clarity and that moment where she says she wants to try. Worst part is i have to try to pretend im ok, but i am still crying myself to sleep every night, and break down during the days too. I miss her dearly... Hearing her voice is comforting and seeing her hurts not knowing what the future holds.

@ESL....so you are still going ahead and signing this loan in your name because you hope she will change her mind and stay with you? Wake up man, you only have yourself to blame in the end because you didn't have the balls to say no and you got hoodwinked

You are acting like a teenager now giddy meeting for a date. The future holds nothing for you and her, and once she gets what she wants, you are going to be tossed aside.

deltone... ive been pretty easy on your responses.. but frankly i am getting a bit tired of your harsh words and pulling your resentment into my situation. I appreciate your concern, but your situation is very different then mine.. You were burned by your wife and now feel all woman are cheeating liars.... I disagree and ill leave it at that.

I should haven't to explain myself to you, but im not signing this loan hoping she will want me back... I am signing it because together or not i do wish her happines... The loan amount is small, and will not destroy me finacially, im not a complete idiot. Im not giddie about lunch, im nervous as it will be hard for me to control my emotions. I love and trust her, and this whole thing is a different level then you may ever understand.