Here is my question and it goes to confirmation bias. Do you find it repugnant what Valigator does? She finds articles of the most heinous sex offenders and their crimes and then says all sex offenders are like the ones she posts about and they all deserve to die. Are all sex offenders as heinous as the ones she posts about? I know this to be false! But when all you read is negative stories about sex offenders you start thinking that all sex offenders are like this.

I believe this selective approach is being used with police officers as well by most people in this forum. I believe police officers have this confirmation bias when it comes to the "bad guys", they deal with the worst of the worst all day long and they become increasingly cynical towards everyone.

You mentioned Rew that cops kill dogs during a raid, how many dogs have died during a raid versus the total overall raids that have been done in the US?

Or look at the confirmation bias when people on this forum think a public figure or police officer gets a sweetheart of a deal when they commit sex crimes. The majority of those people end up with the same sentences we have, but you can find some that do not. When all you read is about those particular people you can start to believe that all public figures and police officers do not get punished.

What is really needed is looking at the big picture, looking at it quantitatively, not one story at a time.

Independent - I agree with SOME (lol) of what you say and I agree with SOME (lol) of what Coastie says and I agree with all of what REW says. The reason for that is that you and Coastie are talking about how things should be and REW and I are talking about how things ARE. We can look at the things She who should be named posts and yes it is unjust to judge all RSOs as the same - but her opinions are no different than the majority of the public. They see the label and nothing else. It does not matter why one acquired the label to them - ALL RSOs are the same in their eyes. I do not consider my son better or worse than any other RSO = that to me is the brotherhood of the loving or being a RSO. The cops have a brotherhood - trust me most of them (and yes I said most) support and stick by each other no matter what the situation. Would you for your fellow RSO? Or would you stand by and watch them vilified becasue you are not as bad as they are?

REW is correct that it takes a certain type of person to become a cop and stay a cop - the days of Andy and Mayberry are gone (they used to exist but no more) - I have been on both sides - I was married to a cop and he is the father of my son - I dispatched for a police dept for many years and went through the police academy and worked as a volunteer cop for a short time. One thing I can tell you is that regardless of good cop Vs. bad cop there is a certain feeling of power and euphoria that comes when you put on the uniform and strap on the gun belt. It does not matter who you are becasue it is human nature - period. Believe me very few (and I mean very few) cops put on their uniforms in the morning and think here I go to help people once again.

A lot of people will say that cops are in danger every minute and that is why they act the way they do - but I will say to you that they chose that job - believe me no one goes into LE thinking it is safe.

I guess in a nutshell I look at it as a type of war. In our country right now there are certainly groups of people that are disrespected (at least) and thought of as enemies by LE and certainly RSOs are one of those groups - so think of it this way - when a soldier goes to war and he is told by his country to annihilate the enemy no matter what does he stop to think that SOME of the enemy are good and some are not? No, they are ALL the enemy.

Case in point - when I was married to the cop we lived in what was then a very small rural town - like all towns there was an area that was known to be the poor area (not crime ridden just poor) - the area was called 3rd street but really included many streets not just 3rd. One day as we were driving somewhere as a family we passed a gentleman walking down the main thoroughfare of town and my husband remarked "oh that guy is a dirtbag." I asked him why he was saying that - his answer was that the guy lived on 3rd street. We actually got into an argument that afternoon because it made me sick that he was calling the guy a name like that simply becasue he lived in a poor part of town. That was 25 years ago - long before current events. If he had that mindset that long ago what makes anyone think that many LE do not share that outlook? Why does it matter? Because he was a cop with a gun and the power to change lives.

Independent,

You made this statement, "I believe police officers have this confirmation bias when it comes to the "bad guys", they deal with the worst of the worst all day long and they become increasingly cynical towards everyone."

It is far more than being a little "increasingly cynical" regarding LEs attitude.

I grew up with several guys in high school who became LE----some of them were cops on the beat, many were detectives, and one even went on to work for the FBI, although I don't think he was an investigator. I know what some of these guys are really like.

I had a very successful pharmacy for almost 25 years. I had every policeman and member of the LE from a 30 mile radius come into my store----and my store only----as I was the only store that happened to accept their medical insurance that paid for prescriptions. I spoke with many of them on a weekly basis as they would come into the store. If I wasn't busy, we spoke at length.

Here is a sample of a few conversations I had with the police that were just "biased because they have to deal with bad people everyday" or "mostly good guys with a huge heart."

One detective asked me point blank if "I knew anyone he could arrest" as he was up for promotion the following month. He was not concerned who he arrested as long as it was someone important and he did not care if the guy was even innocent, but he wanted to arrest someone for his own benefit.

On another occasion, a detective and I were talking about another guy in town who was well known. The detective said to me, "I would love to bust that guy for something, anything. I have some ideas how I can set him up, but I just don't know how to do it yet. But I will get him someday."

I also heard a few of them brag about the interrogation techniques they use on suspects and how they "confused him so much" that they finally got him to say what they wanted him to say. The possibility of him being innocent or getting a fair shake in an investigation and trial did not even enter their mind. Instead, they wanted to pat each other on the back for being so "clever" with their techniques.

Had enough or do you think I am just a liar?

If that is not enough, I had a sheriff's investigator say to me, "We finally got Mr. Smith and he was convicted today. I think my testimony was what threw the jury over the edge. I actually was not very truthful during my testimony, but it was OK, as I am sure he was guilty anyway so he NEEDED to be convicted."

These were conversations between a friendly pharmacist and these "good guys" I keep hearing about. They trusted me and I am not a snitch so I never mentioned it to anyone else.

That was years ago, but it certainly happened.

Hell, about five or six years before my conviction I had the police chief, several people in LE, and the mayor of the town approach me on at least two occasions to run for Police Commissioner. I laughed and told them that I already had a career and was not interested in politics.

I know how these guys think, I know what they are capable of, and I know their mindset toward ANYONE----ANYONE----who has been arrested for a crime regardless of the lack of information.

Now you guys can tell me all you want that "I have seen cops cry" or "most all cops are good guys" or you can infer that "cops have a bias only because they deal with the worst of the worst" all day if that is what you want. If you really believe this, then fine.

But I am here to tell you that you are dead wrong. You just are. And proclaiming that LE are even one-half of one-half percent "good guys" on a forum with people who may make the mistake of talking to them and ruining their chance at a fair and unbiased investigation or any kind of fair trial is doing an injustice to the folks here.

rewdiazepam

PS As far as LE shooting the family dog in a raid, Google it. I did and here are the results----almost six million hits. Sure many were duplicates, but that is a lot of results. I got to page 10 of the search results and stopped.

http://tinyurl.com/qfm62es

I feel like I should apologize for the poor choice of words I used in my original post. When I first saw it and read the article I was angered. I spoke out of anger. If the Newton cop was really doing what was alleged, I feel like he should have gotten more than what was given. My husband also took a plea deal; if his case were to have gone to trial, no "jury of his peers" would have come up with a not guilty verdict after hearing the charges. Once they heard the magic words that's all they would have heard and will have immediately assumed he was guilty. Now my husband is subject to a scarlet letter for the rest of his life. This is where my anger rose. This Newton cop will still be able to find a decent job because he won't be a marked man. My husband is a combat veteran and was getting straight A's in school to become a doctor or pharmacist. Now those jobs are out of reach along with most other decent jobs. It doesn't matter who my husband was or what he's done before everything changed, he is now defined by his conviction. It breaks my heart to think that a person with a good heart and a great mind like his will now have trouble finding just a minimum wage job. I also fear for our safety every day. I wonder when someone will discover that my husband lives nearby and decide more "punishment" is needed. Part of this worry includes having cops come to our house first thing when (god forbid) a child is abducted in the area. I know they will not be "nice" if this ever happens; they will most likely be bullies since they "know" it must have been my husband. Newton cop will not have people being suspicious about his whereabouts and actions; he will not be subject to random visits by LE. Newton cop will be able to move on from his conviction of "turning off the video and audio components of his patrol car's dashboard camera system 'to conceal unprofessional and inappropriate conduct.'" My husband is now a pariah and Newton cop is not.

I don't have too much trust in LE; I try to avoid any interaction I can with them by obeying the law. If I am for some reason asked to come in for questioning by LE; I will use my 5th amendment right and immediately ask for a lawyer's presence before I say anything.

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone with my words that was not my intent; but as the saying goes: "You can't please all of the people all of the time."

I am really thankful that I have discovered this group. I know that I can come here and talk about my struggles and feelings and I can find support and encouragement. I hope that I can continue to find help here.

You might take a look at this article which has delved into the problem with cops shooting dogs-----This person supposedly has some statistics regarding the frequency a dog dies in a police raid.

Watch this piece of video. I frankly could not get through the entire thing without a lot of anger at the actions of these armed thugs. Thugs, gangsters with badges, armed hooligans, or whatever.

I want everyone to watch this video and then try to tell me with a straight face that cops are "nice guys who cry sometimes" or "most are good guys."

WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO. If you think this is an isolated incident, you are dead wrong. Dead wrong.

There are people that just cannot get with reality.

http://tinyurl.com/ng9v96j

Nice people we have here with the guns. Classy.

SHOT THE DAMN DOG IN THE VERY BEGINNING. DID YOU HEAR THE DOG YELP?????????????? DAMN BULLIES.

I am an insane animal lover and I am very upset that ANYONE HERE----ANYONE HERE---would have the f*cking gall and damn stupidity to try to tell me that dogs are not shot often or that the police are good guys.

Wonder how many "tears were shed" by the cops during this police raid??????????????

Some people just slay me with their ignorance. The "police are good guys" attitude on this forum is absolutely repugnant and disgusting.

Independent, I don't know if you are saying that the incidence of dog killing in a raid is overblown----that I have overblown it-----or that given the large number of raids, a small number of dogs shot is acceptable. But even one dog----one damn dog----shot for no reason----is completely unacceptable.

Sometimes I just have to sit here and shake my head.

rewdiazepam

BTW, I am finished on this thread. Everyone can believe what they want.

rewdiazepam

I am also a dog and animal lover, grew up with them my entire life and I hate the fact cops killed the dogs. I am not saying what they did was ok! I am asking the question how prevalent is this? Before we use these cops killing dogs as a reason to think all cops are bullies, I want to know the statistics of how many cops have killed dogs during raids.

So to figure that out I would want to know:

1. How many raids were done in 2014.
2. Total number of dogs killed in raids
3. Percentage of dog ownership in the US, (since I would not comb through the records of every police raid, that would be way too time consuming, I would settle for an average dog ownership in the US)


I am not trying to say cops are bad or good, I have known several asshole cops who have given me a pretty bad time, but I have also known several amazing police officers who have helped me out a lot. I do not want to rely on personal experience, I want to see the over all big picture.

And please do not think I am doubting your personal experience, I am not. What you do is incredible, I wish there were more people like you that gave a damn about the downtrodden. You have a huge heart and I greatly appreciate the advice you have given me, and I know you have touched the lives of everyone on these boards.

I try to take personal experiences out if I can, just as eye witness testimony has been found to be inaccurate, I think humans can be biased. We all have a confirmation bias, where we look more favorably on things that we already think is true. That is what I am trying to get at here.

It is my personal opinion to say that I believe to treat every single person as an individual. Regardless of their title. Wether it's LE, doctors, teachers, men, women, etc. I've had the thought of giving up on men all together because of my continuous bad experiences with relationships over and over. I could easily argue and say I'm done with 'them' because they all either cheat or lie and only care about one thing or I can look at each male as an individual.

Ugh - what some of you are missing is this is not about "I like that group of people or I don't" or "all cops are bad" or "all men are bad" this is about the power that the LE holds that can completely ruin peoples lives - it does not matter how many dogs were killed - they fact that any were killed is bad enough - it is not necessary at all - it is also not necessary to come into a home and bully and brutalize the people inside that home to the point that for years (maybe a lifetime) they are terrified every time someone knocks on the door.

And how are you going to judge the LE as individuals? By the nice way they treat you and yours? Good luck because that will bite you in the butt - I can promise you that.

I went back over and read it again. I see what everyone is saying now.

Does the officer in the article have to register as a sex offender?

@Advocate I hear what you are saying. I know the police have the power to ruin lives. I am not saying they don't or questioning that fact. I also agree that one dog killed is too many. I am questioning whether we can hold all police accountable for the acts of the people that killed the dogs? I am questioning if this group has a bias against them. When all you do is look at stories of police misconduct you start thinking all police will engage in misconduct. Look at how obsessive Valigator is about sex offenders, all she does all day is read stories about sex offenders and she thinks we are all evil and deserve to die.

To figure out the prevalence of police shooting dogs you need the firearm discharge reports which can be gotten through FOIA type requests. Those reports alone will give you the number of times a gun is fired killing a pet vs all other reasons a gun is fired. Then you could get the number of warrants served/raids and calculate the ratio of raids vs pets killed. Ideally you would be able to get the numbers at the state level making the task a lot easier but you could also do it at the department level as was done for the Buffalo Police Department. 92 dogs shot over a three year period. That's 3 times more than the Cincinnati PD over the same time period even though the cities have comparable populations.

http://tinyurl.com/lphnplm

Then in the St Louis area SWAT teams get called out to execute no-knock warrants checking to see if you have electricity and natural gas.

http://tinyurl.com/nhzs5e8

According to police they had received several complaints from the neighbors about this family and the incident report says two people living there were wanted on assault charges and were known to be armed and dangerous which is why the decision was made to use a SWAT no-knock raid to inspect the utilities.. The problem with that is there are no records indicating the two "armed and dangerous" individuals were ever charged or arrested for assault anywhere in the state prior to the raid. The woman filing the suit did have warrants for unpaid traffic violations and failure to register a vehicle. One son had a violation of financial responsibility - that means he drove without proof of auto insurance - while the other also had an unpaid traffic violation but none of those warrants was the basis for the raid. It was a utilities inspection to make sure there were no code violations. By the way the woman had set up a time when her husband was going to be home for the police to come in and inspect no warrant required.

Was the family a nuisance? Probably but when you live in a country where not having your natural gas bill paid can result in SWAT raid that kills your dog then there's a problem. The whole bit about the two sons being wanted for assault doesn't hold up. There's no records indicating that was true and if that was the case then there would have been no need for the utilities inspection smoke screen it would have been much easier to just execute the existing warrants.