A FEW GNOSTIC BOOKY JUDGEMENTS AND ASUMPTIONS OF OTHERS IN JUST THIS THREAD ALONE....DOESN'T JUDGE????



The reason for that is because you are not defining "healthy" correctly, and apparently the people around you know this.


It is the dysfunction of the codependency which has you driving away all of your relationships, and it is unhealthy - not healthy but unhealthy.

Your last sentence of you trying to ignore those two friends is your codependency infecting your life and your relationships. Nobody is ever to be ignored, as that is mean thing to do to anyone.

I do seem to have a way of getting onto the negative side of people, but I figure that codependent people are just so sensitive that if I try tooooo hard to be nice then the message gets reduced down to worthless.

Shar - taking care of one-self and detaching does not ever mean running away from and hiding from the people in our life.

When one runs away from an abuser then that abuser wins, and if one stands their ground with proper and strong bo

She says that "the other people can not let go of me easy" which means she is wrongfully putting boundaries onto them instead of rightfully putting the boundaries onto her self.undaries then it is the abuser who gets put down.

"If you know an abuser and you just leave then the abuser will simply abuse the other people around them, and you left that abuser in a position where they can keep abusing other people. "

Hamster - I can see that you are not able to do that, but the reason that you can not do it is because you do not have the needed healthy boundaries of your own.
I really say that you appear to be hiding behind the 12 Steps and the CoDA group instead of doing the hard task of creating the healthy boundaries for your self.
And recovery is not about ME ME ME - only selfishness is about ME ME ME.
Or about you you you.

To ignore people is about being self centered and selfish, and being no help to others and it is about being worthless to anyone

We all have a real human duty to judge right from wrong, and refusing to judge right from wrong is morally
reprehensible.

Your claim to stop judgments is simply putting an unhealthy wall around your self, as I am not trapped behind your wall.

Hi Hamster,

I like every one of those quotes that you give of mine above.

I truly can not see why you think judging is wrong, because to heal the codependency then we all need to learn how to judge correctly.

The ideal is to judge the words and judge the actions but do not judge the person.

Bible judgments in link below:
http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Judging.html

I suggest that if you were to be wise then stop the negative criticizing of me, and instead learn from those words of mine above that you quoted.

You need to cross over your own prison walls.

I have been thinking a lot today about what I've said. My actions show me, what it is about Booky that I need to fix in myself. Always taking someone else's inventory. You see today I realized I had been failing in my own program. Especially the 4 TH and 5 TH step of the Ala Non teaching. It has nothing to do with the bible or Booky. I use the Bible for what it is. A spiritual guide to connect with God.

To Booky:
You remind me of my own shortcomings of always looking outward, in judging you, I'm not trying to understand my own feelings. By doing so, it should make me feel better. It doesn't. Another words as Black Folk say, "I lost my religion." Something activates me about you Booky, and NO Booky, I can't say that I believe Judging someone else in any manner is righteous or WISE. You can't Love someone when you are judging them, maybe limitations and semantics in language don't allow for us to find the right word in describing what you are trying to parle' here, (and I don't mean this as a put down in any way. ) I think after reading your shares and honestly trying to understand you. You might even be trying to say to "Discern." Sort of like in the Serenity Prayer when I pray to "Know" the difference between the two.



To Heathercliff:
I'm so sorry Heathercliff, I should know better. The 4 TH and 5 TH also step teach me to stick to taking my own inventory. To admit to God and others and "Ourselves" the exact nature of my shortcomings. I don't know if I have this quite right, but I have been concerned with my own behavior and my disgust and repulsion of Booky's shares. You should agree with Booky or anyone else you think has a valid point. In attacking you I made it un-safe for you to share your feelings. I'm sorry again for doing that. As for Judging others, I think I need to leave that to my Higher Power entirely. Obviously from this thread, I'm not very good at it.

Reply#78 is so beautiful Hamster .... congratulations on exploring another dimension.

H,

I did not say to judge the person - no, we are to judge the person's actions and their words.

There is a big difference between wrongfully judging the person and rightfully judging their actions - and that difference is called the boundary line.

Codependency comes out of abuse, and the abusers try to control other people by telling them not to think and not to feel and not to have any opinions and especially not to judge, because judging requires thinking and feeling and having opinions.

When you say "Do not Judge" even if you just tell it to your self, then that is saying to NOT think and do not feel and do not have opinions because in order to really think and feel and to have opinions then we simply must make judgments.

And it is not like I am making this as some new rule because I am not. If you go to a job then you (as is everyone) will be judged, go to any school and you will be judged, go to any church and you will be judged, just walk down the street and you will be judged, and not just judged by me but judged by everyone, just as we all judge each other too.

Telling anyone not to judge is telling them not to think or to feel or to have opinions, and that is wrong to do.

It is wrong to judge a person based on their physical reality - yes, and I do not judge you or judge the other people here, but I do indeed give my judgements concerning the codependency and its dysfunctions.

Hamster is right, this is really just an argument in semantics.

Booky uses the verb "to judge" in the same way that others would think of as simply "forming an opinion". Most people don't use the word "judge" because it can have negative connotations, namely because the word "judgmental" is always used in a negative sense. Booky's use of the word is perfectly accurate in terms of matching a dictionary definition, but it's also understandable that others would interpret his comments as carrying the negativity surrounding the word in everyday use.

Also, Booky says not to "run" from our abusers, and most here probably thought he was saying that the abused should stay in the relationship with the abuser. From what I can tell, he meant this more like "to stand up to" the abuser and to not retreat and let the abuser have their way.

So I think if you were to really parse these things out, you would find very little actual disagreement in everyone's opinions here.

Thank you, Hamsteronawheel.

I think you are a good, caring person.
I have seen that you have gone through alot of
emotional pain, too. I am sorry for your heartbreaks!
Take good care of yourself, Hamster!!!

Love,
heathercliff

beyond codependancy is love addiciton which seems to be not mentioned here people with severe attachment disorder can never ever let go even when letting go is the healthy thing many people call love addiction codependancy and keep hanging on to people who are not good for them never have been just for fear of abandonment

sounds like booky wants to be a dang pschychologist ,, preaching at people and cramming religion down their throat or codependancy isno is not only arrogant but narcissistic codependant fixing and extremely healthy sorry booky boy you are out of line been in the coda rooms for years what is your codepentant need to tell these women what to do they are smart enough to figure it out,, gay and proud

too much analysis paralysis bookie boy

i think that it is protecting yourself to stay away from toxic people including family members, i have learned to listen to my inner self/child that tells me that something is not right. i used to ignore this and pretend that things were different than they were. i do feel isolated at times but it is hard to start over and make healthy relationships, but working on it.

I think you have to distance yourself, at least in the beginning, to begin to heal. I think eventually we learn how to use our boundaries so that, when we reconnect with those who used to drive us crazy, we can be civil without getting sucked back into the craziness. I think it's all about detachment. Once you've completely detached from toxic people then they no longer have power over you, no matter how often you're subjected to them. You finally see them for who they are, including all of their dysfunction. I believe it's seeing people for who they truly are, and their dysfunctions, that help us to grow individually and heal ourselves.

I totally agree with u cheryt on reply 87

Jleon said: Also, Booky says not to "run" from our abusers, and most here probably thought he was saying that the abused should stay in the relationship with the abuser. From what I can tell, he meant this more like "to stand up to" the abuser and to not retreat and let the abuser have their way.

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That sounds great "in theory" but is not sound or safe advice. When my first husband hit the two month old infant in the head with a hard cover book because he was crying and then left to go drink on the military base, there was no standing up to the abuser. It was important to get someone with a car so the infant could get medical treatment. The base thoroughly examined the infant, found my husband on base at the bar and put him in the brig. I asked the military to hold him through the next day because I was leaving him and would be flying across country to go home.

The infant had a mark on his head from being hit with the hard cover book. And the baby and I flew home. I got letters of love and was begged to come back and I never responded. My husband never went for any therapy and I divorced him.

When you stand up to abusers, you risk getting hospitalized or worse. I have learned, and it is true in codependency too, you don't stand up to abusers to tell them your judgment of them, and instead you get the heck out of there. WE CAN'T FIX THE OTHER PERSON AND WE CAN'T CHANGE THE OTHER PERSON. We can only change and fix ourselves.

I note it is males saying that women should stand up to abusers. Most of those abused are women and the difference between size and power between men and women make the women more vulnerable and the best advice is to get out.

Walking away from a toxic person is NOT running away.

It is letting go of a situation that can only cause you further hurt.

It takes great strength to walk away from any bad situation when it would be easier and more acceptable to stay.

Much luck to you, hbgdaystar.

Do what you feel is right for YOU.

Peace :)