The subject here is not about some violent abuser threatening to kill or any such thing - it is about having the ex-friends and ex lovers who are not violent and they want to make amends or at least to keep an ongoing and civil relationship.

If you want to see what Booky has to say - then read the comment "Reply #3" on page one (1) of this thread.

It was correct at first, and it is still correct now.

Codependency is about dysfunctional relationships, while treating the codependency is about creating functional relationships.

I have been abused by my so called ex friend and so called ex lovers in the past... i understood from my own question that ... abusers dont let go of their victims easy... they thrive on abusing a victim.

I said this before and saying this again. There were no ammends made.

booky know it all blow hard,, the best thing many of us need to do is live with safe effectve positive influence, you sound like someone who probably was a predator and dont want anyone to be healthy enough to tell you to get lost you keep pounding everyones boundaries on here you are an old man dude get a life these ladies know why they need to get away from ceratin exs women stand your ground,, He is not right how many women have died because an ex would not let go,, and like ole bookie here someone said what he said you went back to this remorseful abuser only to end up in the morgue an extreme example how ever I had cancer and realized some folks had a cancer mentality smoking drinking not wanting to change for me they were toxic I chose to be proactive and have survived in order to be healthy had to cut out the cancer that was killing me and make drastic and healthy life choices biggest one that saved my life separate myself from unhealthy people places things and cutting out the cancers that would have slowly but surely killed me just an analogy what planet you livin on bookie ,,, you are the one who needs to treat your cancer of know it all ism what kind of fat ego needs to do that

Hi daystar:
I see it as diverting to say that now you are basing it on some past abuse, since the opening post calls this one as just a past friendship.

And we all here know that abuse has got many different meanings, as in verbal abuse or spiritual abuse or some hard violent torture kind of abuse?

But aside from all of that I want to defend the truth about making amends, because I see that word as being abused.

Making amends is not a done deal as it is always a very long process, and making amends can have both positive or negative action and it is far from just making nice apologies or forgiveness.

The word amends comes from the root meaning of fixing and repairing as like mending a problem.

Dictionary = http://www.answers.com/topic/amends

You "daystar" are saying that there was no amends made, but the opening post tells us that the friend did reach out to you, so reaching out is the first step in making any amends, and the reason that there is no amends is because you "daystar" are the one refusing to make amends.

And it is super important to see that you "daystar" said that there is a "mediator" and having a mediator is a really BIG deal, because that means that the friend is not only reaching out but the mediator verifies the action as an attempt to make amends.

Amends = http://www.hazelden.org/web/public/has70305.page

What you "baystar" need to do is start making your own personal boundaries, as like telling your self that you will not explode or get emotional when that old friend again fails to live up to your expectations. Making amends can be very tough to do.

The true healthy boundaries is to be on your own feelings along with your own actions, and not telling the friends what they must do or what they are not to do.

It is a part of your own recovery to make that relationship healthy instead of it being dysfunctional, while cutting off the relationship is not healing you and not helping her and thereby it is not making amends.

This is just my perspective and my opinion, but it is also based on many years of my own study and experiences.

Yea she did reach out to me only to manipulate and abuse me again.why would i put myself with this again and again? I think i am smart and wise enough to see what is healthy for me..

Seriously u dont see my point booky.

I believe I do see your point, and I honestly do sympathize, but it would be wrong of me to support your point because that would be me enabling your dysfunction.

I want to enable you to be stronger by enabling you to create the healthy boundaries instead of that wall which you obviously want so much.

I myself just like everyone else here and everyone in the entire world has certain people from our past who we do not like and do not want to see ever again.

It is normal and natural to have many ex's which are not welcome but they keep coming back anyway.

You say this ex-friend will manipulate and abuse you - well why is that? since you know it is manipulating or abusive then you do not need to go along with any of that, as you can say "no" to the manipulation and say "no" to the abuse without discarding the friend.

That is what is meant by having the personal boundaries, in that we can stand our ground in the face of anyone, and thereby the boundaries make so that even a hard relationship can function.

The fact that you do not want to do that, just as I do not like doing that, and nobody likes dealing with the difficult people in our own lives, THAT is the codependency controlling our lives, and those kind of difficulties come up over and over again and neither you or I can escape from the difficult people who get on our nerves.

You make it sound as if this ex-friend is the only one who manipulates and abuses you - but in fact those kinds of people are every where, and so when you create the proper self imposed boundaries to protect your self from her, then at the same time you will be able to protect your self from any other manipulator and abuser by using those same boundaries against the other abusers and manipulators who will surely come along because we are surrounded by such people.

I am not saying that some-how you need or want that nasty friend - no, but you do need the boundaries which would make so that her relationship with you can then function instead of dysfunctioning as it does now.

Link http://powertochange.com/experience/sex-love/boundaries/

If that ex-friend is abusing and manipulating then she needs to be stopped, and she will respect you when you say "no" to the abuse and when you stop her manipulations, and you can only do this by creating the healthy boundaries for your self.

I realize that I am being pushy and aggressive on this discussion, but none of it is meant to harm you or to harm anyone, and that is the point of standing my ground as a boundary and not as a wall.

In theory what u said is good booky... in real world its tough... i would probably understand this better if you could give me an example of similar situation you were involved, stood up to an abuser and manipulator and how you set your boundaries and took care of yourself.

I agree that the real world is tough, and I find that even a healthy and loving relationship is tough too in many ways.

So you wanting specifics from me is a tough question in itself, and I will try here.

What I say is that you are again misapplying the concept of a boundary, because I (we) do not put boundaries on abusers or manipulators as the healthy boundaries do not work that way.

What I do is put boundaries on myself.

As like I once had a really big dude in my own apartment threatening violence against me and against another small friend in the room, so I am not going to fight the huge brute, so I simply told him that I would call the police and that I would press charges and as such he calmed himself down.

I did not tell him to stop and I did not tell him "no" as I only told him what I myself was going to do, as only my own action was my own boundary, and I had no other control over him.

But a more realistic boundary of mine is that some 17 years ago I turned into a vegan vegetarian, and again it is my own boundary as it is a rule which tells me myself what I will do and what I will not do, as I do not eat animals which is a huge important boundary of mine.

Some might see that as nothing, but I have family who have turkey and swine for Thanksgiving and for Christmas, and most people I meet or know are meat eaters, so I get a lot of pressure and criticism and such from family and friends and even from strangers, and I even remain single because most Women do not want to match up with a vegetarian and I do not want to be with a Lady that eats animals, so this is a tough boundary for me, but it also very much defines who I am as a person as it is my own personal boundary.

If you see that ex-friend of yours then there is no boundary for you to control her from being abusive or manipulating, as that is not a boundary of your own, but there is no reason that you would be powerless against her. You must have to power to control your self, and that ex-friend is not to control you.

Our own personal boundaries are what makes ourselves as strong, as our own boundaries are also our own power source. Which is why your own boundaries need to be based on your own values and principles.

I have spent many years tolerating people who were toxic for me and who brought me down..Who were extremely unkind and today..I dont have to associate with them(..even it may be members of my own family.)..I can take care of myself today...I do not have to feel guilty for having boundaries....and tking csre of myself..We do not have to be held hostage by these toxic ones...I thank the Lord everyday for this freedom......There are people in this world who do tthrive on tearing people down to build themselves up..that is for sure.....If some people are not going to respect me..i DONT need or want them in my life....

I've only read to page 3. Booky, I see you are a baiter.
I've had issues with my ex who was a drug user. We had a decent amount of distance from one another and now we are able to be friends and respect each others boundaries. I remain guarded LOL but I have to deal with him until our son is an adult.
My toxic relationship is with my parents, they step all over me and my life. Creating boundaries does not work. Creating distance and allowing myself to move on with my life without the abuse and drama is healthy for me and my son. If they can't respect my boundaries, if they can't stop putting me down and tearing me apart...in my face and behind my back, I have every right to cut away and choose not engage any longer. I get a knot in my stomach every time my mother calls or just shows up at my door. This isn't just about ex's...it's about choosing who's healthy which includes family and friends. I'm responsible for myself. I'm not responsible for them and how they feel. I'm not responsible for the bad choices my sister makes however they believe I should be mom to my sisters kids. My sister made the choice to have 2 kids. She needs to take care of them herself. I have to worry about me and my son. There is nothing but chaos in my family and I choose not to participate in it. I don't want my son in the middle of it. This is not running or hiding. My life can move on and be healthy because I choose to avoid toxic people. I find nothing wrong with this.
My family had manipulated me to staying in this situation for far too long. Using my son as a reason. Telling me that I'm running, hiding...I'm a coward. They don't see their own insanity. That's not my fault. I'm not responsible for them. I want to move on. I have every right.
If it is hurtful to them or they feel it's mean to cut away or ignore their crazy dramas, MAYBE they will see that THEIR craziness needs to change. But I don't feel responsible for it and I refuse to take responsibility for it.

Hi kdmook,
You are making the same old mistake about boundaries, because real boundaries means to control your self and not to control anyone else. The real boundaries do work, while a wrongful boundary does not work. Boundaries do not work over a distance, as the real and healthy and best of boundaries mean up close and face to face. When you tell any of your family members what they are to do or tell them what they are not to do then that is NOT a true boundary, as that is just the codependency trying to control your family members. What you are calling as a "boundary" is just you trying to be controlling which is a dysfunction of the codependency. Clearly you are trying to defend your self and to protect your self and that is why it feels like you are being strong, but it is NOT strong and it is a dysfunction. A true healthy and functional boundary must be put onto your self and only onto your self and nothing about any other person.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/201205/creating-boundaries
A true boundary for you would go like this: When your Mom or sister starts putting you down and tearing you apart THEN you must not lose your temper, and you do not yell or cuss at them, and you do not internalize whatever they might throw at you - that would be your own personal boundary line. You must not explode and do not get angry and do not get emotional because you (as do we all) must control our self. The other people like your Mom and sister are controlling you and you need to stop that, so that is a huge part of the dysfunction of codependency. You say that you choose not to participate in it, but that needs to be done up front and face to face and THEN do not participate in it - yes, but when you just leave and create a distance then you are still participating in it because the codependency will go wherever you go until you stand it down.

And I see that you are trying to protect your son and that is praiseworthy, but he sees what you do and he absorbs whatever you do and he will even absorb your feelings, so that you do not need to teach him the codependency as children learn it as if like magic. Your son will see you trying to control your Mom and sister, and he will see that you are not controlling your self, and so what you do will be his instruction for his own life.
Below is a serious link about boundaries,
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/personalshared.html
You are trying to fight back against them like a barking dog, when instead you need to just keep calm and stand your ground.

It is okay if you see me as a "BAITER" because the truth is that I am one hard person with a long hard life, and I am not trying to control you as I am just trying to give some helpful advice here.

I don't care what my sister does. LOL I don't care what my parents do. I tell them no all the time. They still come to my house, say inappropriate things around my son and try to force me to participate in things that I don't want to be a part of. I have said no. And it creates a war because they want to force me to do what they want me to do.
Life is too short to be bothered with this. It's easier to just get away instead of staying here to be harassed. THEY can't control ME...but they keep coming at me. I've given up any hope that they will respect my boundaries. I'm not forcing them to do anything. But I can choose not to engage with them anymore because doing so keeps me unhealthy. I'm severely depressed and anxious all the time. The anxiety effects my son. And they have used my son to get at me.
A healthy choice is to just end it all and cut all ties. Telling someone that they should stay and keep fighting is just wrong. Sometimes the ties need to be cut. End of story.

hi kdmook
I have a similar but not the same situation as you have, so i can understand that keeping fighting for your boundaries to be respected is tiring, depressing and draining. the anxiety of the challenge is just awful. I bet you've tried everything, but i read something the other week and tried it and it kinda worked after i'd done it a few times. If they ask to come to your home or ask you to meet them and you really are busy or want a rest from visitors, just calmly say-"i'm really looking forward to having a day with ...............(my kids, or on your own, or what ever it is you really want that day. ) ........ but it would be nice to see you or do that another time, can i get back to you?" just be honest! then you leave it open to to see them when its convenient for all of you, you have to expect that they'lll be 'busy' the next few times too but you can be ok with that too. just be the mature person!