Sometimes people just don't understand the word "healthy." My best advice would be to ignore both of them. Eventually they will get the point. I've had to do that in the past and its painful but works at getting unhealthy people out of May life. We want people in our lives that will support us by being positive and supportive. If these friends aren't good emptionally for you then you have to do what's right for you. They will move on eventually when the drama they are trying to cause isn't working :-)

I think a lot of women are "fixers," and feel really uncomfortable when their friends don't all get along, so they try to smooth things over, much as one might do in their marriage between their spouse and in-laws, etc. It is her issue; not yours. She needs to learn boundaries. Good for you for sticking to your guns!

The reason for that is because you are not defining "healthy" correctly, and apparently the people around you know this.

There is no true or healthy reason why you or anyone can not have a healthy relationship with your ex husband or ex wife or ex BF or ex GF, and it is dysfunctional for you to claim that any person is not healthy for you to be friends with them.

It is the dysfunction of the codependency which has you driving away all of your relationships, and it is unhealthy - not healthy but unhealthy.

We all need to have a functioning relationship with our ex-this and ex-that and with our old friends, and it is not like you are the only one that has to do this, because this happens to everyone all through humanity.

Your last sentence of you trying to ignore those two friends is your codependency infecting your life and your relationships. Nobody is ever to be ignored, as that is mean thing to do to anyone.

If you do not treat this then the codependency will push your self into a corner all alone where you are pushing everyone away, and that is the height of the codependency dysfunction by surrounding your self with unhealthy walls as your own self made prison.

You pushing people away is not a healthy boundary - it is unhealthy, it is a wall, and it is a sure sign of codependency.

A true and healthy boundary is the way to maintain a healthy relationship with anyone and with everyone, as the true healthy boundaries make the relationships to function.

Pushing other people away is a way of having control over the other people, and it is having power over those people by pushing them away - and that is a huge part of the dysfunction of the codependency.

Links:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/201205/creating-boundaries

http://sunflowerfaith.com/2011/10/setting-boundaries-with-difficult-people-six-steps-to-sanity-for-challenging-relationships-book-review/

Food for thought.

Thanks Clover and Cheryt

Booky

Interesting perspective. Thanks for recommending the book Setting BoundariesTM with Difficult People (Kindle Edition) by Allison Bottke. Looks interesting.

FYI i have right to remove myself from Emotional Vampires... You cannot say i cant do things which are right for me in my perspective, Ignoring my friends about this incident for me is my right. I will take it up when i am ready.. I may not be ready forever...

You and I are in a different place in our path... Whats right for you may not be right for me and vice-versa. If this is named codependency and dysfunction so be it. What works for me is what i call recovery. I am right in my own way..

Many times i felt you have victimised me for putting in thoughts on DS. Often you say i am this i am that and i am wrong in several ways..... What makes you right is what i think .

I do seem to have a way of getting onto the negative side of people, but I figure that codependent people are just so sensitive that if I try tooooo hard to be nice then the message gets reduced down to worthless.

So other people read these comments too, and I feel that we need to send out a more healthy message to everyone even if it is upsetting to some.

What might be right or wrong for you or for me is a matter of opinion, but what is right and wrong for the codependency is not so much of any opinion.

Many things simply feel right and feel good when they are not healthy.

http://danwaldschmidt.com/2012/09/attitude/the-danger-of-being-dead-right

Crack cocaine feels good and feels right but it is not.

Being selfish feels good and feels right because the selfish person gets everything and shares nothing - so selfishness has great feelings attached to it.

Being cowardly feels good and feels right because why would one risk their life or risk their feelings or do anything uncomfortable when they do not have to do it? Being brave is a virtue because it is harder to do and it is much admired.

It is like the baby chicken inside of its egg, because inside the walls it feels warm and soft and comfortable and safe, so breaking out of the shell might not feel right and might not feel good but the chick has to do it anyway.

To be selfish or cowardly or unloving, unfriendly, then those things create the low self esteem into your self, and such things creates a loss of respect from the other people around you.

I like the example giving when Prince William and Princess Kate got married, as they invited to their wedding all of their ex-BFs and ex-GFs and instead of ignoring their past lives they embraced their past into the future.

http://weddings.about.com/b/2011/04/10/would-you-invite-an-ex-girlfriend-or-ex-boyfriend-to-your-wedding.htm

We need to take the high road to be healthy, because the low road is not comfortable and not healthy.

Just sharing my understanding for anyone that wants it.

Hi DayStar,

I follow the belief that some people are toxic for us, and we can detach. Author Jack Canfield, one of my favorite authors, says to do exactly what you say, stay away from people who are not supportive or are toxic.

There are times when we cannot avoid it, no doubt. I know I have to deal with difficult people in my classes and professionally, but I sure do not have to deliberately place myself in toxic environment in my free time.

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/maximum-confidence-by-jack-canfield

http://www.peopleskillsdecoded.com/how-to-deal-with-toxic-people/

Both Jack Canfield and the Social Confidence Coach have the same advice - The number one way to handle toxic people is to avoid them (when you can).

We have the right to choose who is in our lives, IMO, especially our friends. Am I saying that my friends are perfect or that i would not befriend a new person? No to both.

However, I do not seek out people who try to drag me down. And I do not believe I am unkind because I would rather spend time with positive than negative people. There are a few friends in my life who have negative tendencies, but it is more about their attitude and most of the time, it is not them being negative about me.

I don't need any assistance in beating myself up, thanks anyway.

There are many opinions on the "right" way to recover from various issues, but I am in alignment with your thoughts, Daystar. If there are no children, why on earth would you need to maintain a relationship with an ex-husband if you do not want to? I sure don't think you do.

And just because Prince Charles or William or whoever does something, so what? We are not cut from cookie cutters, and if they were happy with their choice, then it was right for them. It does not mean we all have to do things exactly the same way.

For me, some of my best and happiest choices have been choosing to say "no" and choosing not to participate in groups/organizations full of upset. If those women are happy arguing and making mountains of molehills, by all means, be my guest. But that is not how I wish to spend my time, and I believe I have the right to decide. In fact, I believe we all have the right to decide.

In my own experience, I have allowed people to take advantage of me, my time, and etc. in my Co state. I keep working at reinforcing the belief that we have equal rights and are just as valuable as anyone else. For many Cos, like me, that is a big issue. Healthy self-care means taking care of myself. And deliberately placing myself in toxic environments would not be healthy self-care. That is my opinion, too and we are in good company. Jack Canfield, for one, and Melody Beattie also talks about self-care and detaching - whatever is needed to take care of self.

Do what is right for you.

Hugs,

Shar

I have to agree with you, Shar. I've spent most of my life "tolerating" people that were unhealthy and unkind to me. I let their dysfunction become mine. I find that I can't be around people I consider dysfunctional because my code steps in and wants to try to "help" them, when they really need to help themselves. Some of these people are toxic, and being around them brings me down. They don't want anyone's help, they just want to wallow in self-pity. I can't be around that. And that is for my own health, and that has been recommended to me by a code therapist. I choose to take his advice because, so far, it has really helped me to work on my recovery. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and their own truths. In the end we have to do what we feel is right for each of us. As long as we are decent, loving, caring human beings, then how we got there is less important than the fact that we have arrived.

Shar - taking care of one-self and detaching does not ever mean running away from and hiding from the people in our life.

We are not being told that being healthy means taking care of your self by trashing or discarding other people.

To detach is meant to mean to detach from the projected feelings and detach from the emotions and not to detach by running away and hiding from the other person(s).

And even when some one is a toxic personality as they are toxic in so many ways - then that is the point and purpose of having the personal boundaries to protect your self around such toxic people.

If every time you get around certain people then your psyche and emotions break down then that means your boundaries are not healthy or secure.

There are dysfunctional people everywhere, just as there are perverts and idiots and jerks all around all of us, so by running away from the toxic people then that is running away from life.

And truly my own family of origin is just as horrible as is any other family, and everybody has ex-this and ex-that and it is hard for all of us to live with the toxic people in our lives, and that is why healing means learning how to effectively deal with abusers.

No one needs to run away and hide from them, and it is NOT healthy to run away and hide from the people in our life, and the real solution which fixes everything including fixing the codependency is to create the healthy boundaries.

The boundaries done correctly make so the relationships function (instead of dysfunction), and true boundaries are not for breaking up or hiding away from any relationship - the boundaries protect your own feelings and emotions so then you can deal with anyone and with everyone.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/201205/creating-boundaries

When one runs away from an abuser then that abuser wins, and if one stands their ground with proper and strong boundaries then it is the abuser who gets put down.

To heal the codependency means to become a strong personality, instead of being the weak one that is run off by every obnoxious jerk that comes along.

Hi Booky,

We will agree to disagree about this. Not choosing to hang with toxic people is not the same as running away.

And choosing not to hang out with people is not trashing them, either.
Ditto for what you call hiding.

I really must disagree about most of your post. I do understand your point, but did you carefully read the blog from Psychology today that you posted? She says to identify the source of frustration for example, at work and it might mean "changing jobs." From your posts, I would deduce that you disagree with that. You are giving the impression that we all should just tough it out, and take whatever anyone throws at us, instead of moving away from the garbage being tossed our way.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

I have the impression that you are not openly reading what is written. This bit from the blog you posted:

"So, if someone wants to bother us in some way, we cant make them stop, but we can create a safe place for ourselves. We can create psychic and physical space for ourselves to live. We can decide on all kinds of things from new jobs to new relationships. We can change our own lives."

There is nothing here that actually aligns more with what you are saying than with my point of view. I actually agree with this. 1. We cannot change others. 2. We need to take care of ourselves. 3. If anything - jobs, relationships, whatever, are not working for us, it is our responsibility to find new ones. Did you notice new jobs and new relationships are mentioned at the end of that paragraph?

Can you try to see the other side of this coin? That perhaps toughing it out and being miserable, or constantly needing a protective shield up with certain people might not be the best answer? There might be more than one way?

Something to think about.

Shar

Very good post, Shar. I also think that, in order to live as Booky suggests, while idyllic, is not practice in many of our lives because the very people we are codependent on absolutely refuse to respect our boundaries. What then? The only thing left to do is distance ourselves from those that will not respect us.

Shar - you are just seeing what you want to see.

Quitting a job is not the same as hiding away from the people in your life. And we need to deal with ex-jobs in a healthy way too.

Just as quitting a relationship has nothing to do with hiding away from an ex-GF or ex-BF or ex-lover or ex-friends.

We all need to wonder when we have too many ex's because then the problem is most likely in our self.

I really can see the other side of the coin - as I have been there and I have done that - so I do not say to tough it out and to be miserable - no - I am saying to create the healthy boundaries so then you and she can stand your ground against anyone, and then let the abusers be the ones who run away and hide.

In that psychology link this is what I see - quote = "Boundaries have to do with knowing who we are and what it is possible for us to do. They have nothing whatsoever to do with making others do anything. In fact, healthy boundaries have nothing to do with others at all."

We do have to deal with others because we can not make them go away, but our boundaries are our own inside business which empower us against the many jerks and creeps in this world.

Another word (synonym) for boundary is self discipline:
http://www.successconsciousness.com/self_discipline.htm

We discipline our feelings and discipline our emotions and then we can stand up strong against anyone - including the ex or an abuser or even to accept love from others.

A true healthy boundary is self imposed self discipline.
http://www.essentiallifeskills.net/personalboundaries.html
QUOTE = "To set personal boundaries means to preserve your integrity, take responsibility for who you are, and to take control of your life."

When you must avoid any other person then you have lost control over your self.

It is wrong to ignore anybody, and it is double wrong to discard any person.

"Cheryt" calls it as idyllic and I can accept that, because with the proper boundaries then it becomes idyllic on our own terms instead of being abused.

Hi Cheryt,

Codependency is not being codependent on a person.

The codependency is all inside our own mind and heart and soul and all one needs to do is cut the imaginary strings between your self and the other person ( create the boundary) and then the other person has no more power against you.

If a codependent person moves away from their abuser then that heals nothing because the codependency is in one self and it is not connected with the abuser.

This is why a codependent person will move away or kick out the abuser and then go find a totally new dysfunctional relationship because the codependency is inside of our self and not connected to the other person.

The abuser can even die and be buried or cremated and thrown into the dirt while the codependency will live onward, and it will even be passed down to the next generation.

We are not codependent on a person.

There are people who are particularly irritating and those who know how to push our buttons and toxic people all around, and the only thing that stands in the way of such people is creating our own healthy boundaries.

http://www.whatiscodependency.com/the-power-of-personal-boundaries/

Break up with people - sure yes if that is what you choose - but breaking up is NOT a true healthy boundary.

Hi Booky,

Well, again, we will agree to disagree. You do not seem to understand that a person can choose not to maintain a relationship with an ex - you call that hiding. Avoiding being around someone is not hiding. It is not the same. Go back and read Co Dependent No More, read all of it, not just the parts you agree with and then maybe I will continue this dialogue.

No one disputes that codependency is inside, but people do not develop the traits in a vacuum. It is in dealing with others, and often abusers, addicts and other troubled individuals. Have you read any of the material from Al-Anon?

No one is disagreeing that we have to set our own boundaries, but setting them can mean staying away from people who deliberately try to hurt us.

Shar

I have to agree with Shar on this one. I've been in friendships before where I've had to just "let go" and leave them be. If the person you are in a friendship with is unhealthy for you, then you need to not put yourself in that situation. It's your choice to hurt me the first time, It's my choice whether you do it again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I really am not saying that we do not break up with some people, and yes we do leave some people, and yes let go of unhealthy people.

What the original message by "hbqdaystar" is saying is that her boundaries are not working.

She says that "the other people can not let go of me easy" which means she is wrongfully putting boundaries onto them instead of rightfully putting the boundaries onto her self.

She is trying to control those other people (the ex's) and trying to exert power over the ex's, instead of controlling her self.

And I truly am not trying to be mean or harsh here, as I really do want to offer helpful advice about the codependency.

She needs to tell the ex-that and the ex-this that they can be friends and they can be polite in public, and where it comes to getting closer she needs to tell them "no" in a respectful way, so that they will understand her boundary line.

http://www.essentiallifeskills.net/personalboundaries.html

The ex's have their own feelings and their own rights, so we simply can not give orders to other people regarding their life.

Saying "no" means standing her ground, but she is still required to be polite and courteous and respectful to everybody on earth including her ex-husband ex-friends ex-boyfriend, and we all really do need to learn how to face down any abuser too - by using our own personal boundaries.

To ignore anyone is not a healthy boundary, and it is not up to any of them to let go of her - since she wants to let go then that is her own business and not theirs.

It surely feels strong to her by telling the ex's to go away, but it is really giving away her power and it is giving the control over to them, and that is why they keep rejecting it and keep coming back - because you are giving them that control.

All you really need to do is nicely but firmly say "no" to their face - and mean it to your self, and that creates the boundary line.