I defend the notion that the people in question were a clique, who had no intention of helping anyone other than themselves and their clique.

I didnt think thats what Trisha was saying. But OK.

Re-read reply #18.. I know trisha meant no offense, but I just wanted to tell her that she may have just gotten the wrong impression of those people, as they were actually supportive. Now, you know this is not going to be something that you agree on, but it is still true.

I reread #18 and it affirms my experience of that group too. I know they offered you great support, and they cared about you, and a good number of others too. They offered a lot of riches to a number of people. There was also other stuff going on. I know you saw it, we talked about it a lot in PM and you offered me support and even defended me a good number of times.

I like your analogy of the shopping mall very much. That's how it should be, and most times is.

I want to share a true story with you. About 15 years ago I was teaching in a school for gifted kids. One of my students was from a family newly arrived to Canada from Pakistan. Her parents owned and ran a store near the school. People who wanted to, shopped there. I never did, but because I wasn't interested in their merchandise. They were lovely people though that I had met during Parent/Teacher interviews.

At the time the Heritage Front, a white supremacist group was active in the area. On a nearly daily basis a couple of them would enter the store, shoplift, spit at the owners, throw out racial slurs. They called the police. Nothing much could be done without proof. Verbal warnings were given out by a couple constables.

The targeting became more intense over time. Racist graffiti, rocks thrown through the windows, and finally arson.

The final result -- they moved back to Pakistan. Their daughter wanted to stay and finish her last year of highschool before going to a Canadian University. She had to find alternative living arrangements through the Multicultural Centre for the remainder of the year. Many of us were outraged because we felt it so unfair that they were driven away. But they were peaceful people who rather would walk away than stay and fight what seemed to them a losing battle.

But don't you see that in a "fight," both parties are equally responsible. This wasn't something that just flew out of nowhere. This was something that was dished out on both sides. I can take responsibility for my actions. I just with that everyone could own up to the same.

Well, what constitutes responsibility? Actually saying publicly what one did that contributed to the current state of affairs? making an apology? making amends?

What about claiming your responsibility without having done anything wrong? or claiming you'd do the same thing all over again?

I suspect everyone involved has different wants and expectations that others don't meet.

Maybe the only thing to do anymore is to appreciate what we all still have?

Our health? family? friends? employment? a 2nd or 3rd chance at life? this forum? any of the other forums? email with friends who are no longer here? the time we got to spend with any of them while we were together? the ability we have to reach out to those who are here?

You get to pick.

Just shoot me if I come back and look at this thread again. Please.

Rman, I know your friends were very supportive and you miss them very much. I do know they helped you in a very difficult time. I'm sorry they aren't here to help you now.

There should be enough room on here for everyone. I like your analogy of a shopping mall. I do that. I read something and pass on it if I can't add something to it.

But I couldn't discuss on here the stunts my ex was pulling on me. I had seen them belittle people who talked sbout Narcissism. Seen it get nasty and that is not my style. So I stayed away a lot. I had enough of that in my life. I won't subject myself to more on an open forum. You were never involved in any of that. I apologize again for not using the words to match what I meant.

I know you are mourning the loss of your friends as well as other things. They have been good friends to you. I'm so sorry you are having to go thru this.

trisha9054...I get what you are saying. Thanks.

JoyDrop...What are you saying? I appreciate what I have. I claim responsibility for my part. But are you without fault. Are you unable to admit your part in a negative situation? Are you truly a victim of life? I'm a victim, sometimes, but not always. Sometimes I am to blame. I'm human, after all. But can you admit the same? If not, then you will never be able to heal. Just a discussion here...not anything more.

I dont know what you're talking about either Rman. What is your definition of responsibility? What exactly are you talking about? Did you not believe all of the things I said about my part? or my motives? or are you waiting for it to be said in some particular style that I'm not accommodating?

I've offered much more in terms of responsibility than I received, but I'm not complaining about it every day or three. It is what it is.

Things played out the way they needed to in my estimation. Everyone is an adult, everyone made their own choices. I don't think any of us likes the outcome very much, or the consequences of our actions, but we're all big boys and girls, right?

I was simply responding to your previous post. This is a discussion forum, right?

The funny part is that I only posted this, so that more people would feel comfortable to post...how ironic...

Sorry, I don't believe you Rman.

I think you posted because you "felt ditched", and were missing your friends. Not to make other's more comfortable.

aren't we doing just that? discussing it?

I empathize with you Rman. I'm just not sure I know what you're getting at.

and you are wrong, patti. I would tell the truth if that is how I felt. I always tell the truth...even when I lie...