look at it this way....
I had to watch one of my family members decide that he was going to try Chinese medicine to treat his bp. yeah right. This quack talked him into paying him two hundred dollars a session to stick pins in him. he re did his diet.... blah blah. Then Well he tried to hang himself because that shit dont work with real beepers.
But Hey
Keep a godammed open mind.
But breath
You might just help someone to a early open minded grave. Then their relatives will be very upset.
Just cuase you showed a mentally ILL person a video that says they might not be really ill
WTF

"I'm someone who feels that a loving and compassionate approach, without people being lied to and given half-truths is important. I just wish I had better ability to communicate that."

Lee, you have to see that coming on the board and suggesting that those who believe other than you are believing lies is as hurtful as others opinions of your beliefs. (did that make sense? lol)

Many of us become defensive if we think we are being "dismissed" for our belief and way of treating our disorder.

What the man has to say in the video is his opinion, no different than that of our pdoc's and therapists other than the fact that he does not have a medical degree.

I have spent MANY years living with this disorder and researched MANY avenues of belief. I have also studied a great deal about the "true" self. Never did I feel inclined to believe that mania is a spiritual revelation of any kind. I have a very close relationship to God and I have shed my "egg shell". I don't find my mania nor my depression something that God would choose for me to have.

AMEN hypnoman. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Also adding, that while I do believe there are a few people who can live without meds if they are very structured with their lives and very consciencious of their "true" self, not for a minute can I accept that BP can be healed.

There are many of us out there who struggle terribly with this disorder in so many horrific ways. It is possible to cycle just once in mania and depression in your whole life and be diagnosed bipolar. Is it possible those people who believe they have been healed are such people? Is it possible that you are being hood winked by a guy who wants a following? Is it possible this guy really isn't bipolar? I think there are alot of questions to be answered before we would just "open our minds" to such a thing. Don't you?

Shelly4, as you've studied, you're inclined to go with what feels true to you. We all have our own opinions right?

I've done my own research, granted for only 7 years, have my own lived experience too and have seen things that no one could possibly give me an explanation for in Psychiatry (nor has any Psychiatrist, Community Psychiatric Nurse or hospital staff nurse ever tried to understand my experience). Yet I was labelled and drugged against my will, based on subjective opinions and observations for how one behaves.

Hypnoman - I'm sure the countless cases of people being medicated then dying or commiting suicide as a result is just worth ignoring too yeah? How about Electro-convulsive therapy destroying the brain so people can only function to a certain degree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjOlEJC_Tqo&feature=related

More deadly quackery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H4n1VNUTho

Shelly4,

The reason why people do struggle so terribly and in horrific ways, is because of what is established for us. People are not getting "better" or "cured" under what is in place, because the approach is that to make us fit into a desired slot, instead of us allowing to be who we really need to be, and helped to be so with the right loving and caring approach. We're told we're the problem, we're sick and diseased, here's the medicine and that's that. Deny what else has gone on for us or what else we struggle to do in our lives - lets ignore that. We know how the pharmaceutical companies fund research and projects, and make deals with the Psychiatric community. It's a huge industry for profit with little need to have the client involved.

People deserve better than to be told they are sick and can never be healed. The problem is all in perception and who's you choose to adopt and take.

I agree that the person in the video can be someone insincere, yet it doesn't come across that way. He may have his own agenda, which we will not know. It was to be a starting point for an open conversation about a different view and a different perspective based on other research and information. That's all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bow1ZJTV4L4

Well, Lee, I think I am doing what you asked. I am pretty open minded about things. I think that is what you are asking for. The problem is that I have researched these different avenues and dont agree with them. I do believe that a loving and caring environement can nurture us and help us be our very best. I do believe that we can live a fruitful life.

I also agree that pharma's are big business being fed by those of us who need their medications. That is not limited to bipolar disorder or mental illness. There are MANY ways they feed off of us.

I have to consider that this is not a "perfect" world and there are not all those "perfect" variables to help me or others be well. I have to consider the thousands of bipolar sufferers who struggle alone without support or understanding. I accept that there are many ways we can help ourselves or be helped in this disorder and many coping skills that can be used ALONG with the medication.

I don't "fill" a mold that someone else created for me. I have tried other avenues and going medication free. It almost killed me. I have a VERY productive, nurturing, satisfying life, BUT, I feel comfortable with the meds.

I am sharing with you that these other avenues have not worked for me and that doesnt mean it "might" not work for you. However, I dont think my psyche doc is a quack or lying to me. I have been with him 20 years and he is very careful with my treatment but also advocates many other tools to go along with the meds.

When you speak of the quackery, you can only speak for those who fit that mold, NOT all psychiatrists.

You have to do what feels comfortable for you and if you are looking for "like minded" people that can offer lots of support in what you believe, I dont think you will find it here. There are a few but not what you will get from the blog and forum.

Doesnt this guy have a support group? Why would he tout this and leave you hanging?

lee--

my current pdoc and analyst take me and the rest of my life into consideration in managing my bp as well as some other conditions that intrude on my life in destructive ways.

however, i have had pdocs and analysts who are very much as you describe..."take this...and that...and this other thing...and if you feel like a zombie, well, that's your lot in life."

i am not willing to subscribe to the life of a zombie.

but i do think that a balance of western medicine and nontraditional (in our culture) practices can be healthy.

i also expect to have to manage this one way or the other for the rest of my life...

and realize that for me, it's likely that some form of medication will be part of that management.

part.

and i am wary of anybody who tells me that i don't need my meds.

maybe i need to tweak meds every now and again...

but a completely unmedicated 'me' usually equals a completely out of control 'me'...'nontraditional' management methods in effect or not...

but hey. whatever works for anybody else...works.

and i also think that there are degrees of bp.

without starting a 'my bp is bigger than yours' discussion, i would definitely put forth that the degree to which mine manifested earlier in life was (mostly) much more manageable than it is now...

anyway.

don't assume that a point of view that is not your own equals a closed mind.

best,
beep.

Lee, at what age were you diagnosed? Why were you diagnosed? When did you start practicing this new found "spiritual" birthing process? I am curious as to how much experience you have had with BP and this belief.

and..........I agree with beep that you cant assume that an opinion other than your own equals a closed mind. Many of us have been where you are and realized the danger of it.

Well, Lee, I think I am doing what you asked. I am pretty open minded about things. I think that is what you are asking for. The problem is that I have researched these different avenues and dont agree with them. I do believe that a loving and caring environement can nurture us and help us be our very best. I do believe that we can live a fruitful life.

* Yes you are, and I appreciate it. That loving and caring environment is essential to our well-being, especially in a harsh society. As you know, it doesn''t turn out that way all to often, and hence we have what could be considered a collective 'mental illness' across the world, which can be dealt and handled with in many, many different ways. Providing people have all their faculties, people can live a fruitful life. Psychiatric bio-chemical medications do damage to the body in many different ways, and would be better used as a last resort if at all as far as I'm concerned, but then that's just my opinion. -

I also agree that pharma's are big business being fed by those of us who need their medications. That is not limited to bipolar disorder or mental illness. There are MANY ways they feed off of us.

* Absolutely - yet with the recurring problems with "mental illness" on the increase (where people are becoming severely depressed/manic or suffer with other terrible conditions) and not lowering due to Psychiatric treatment is a clear sign there's something wrong with the area. There's a lot of research that's ignored, there's lots of data and information completely open to interpretation and passed off as complete fact and truth. -

I have to consider that this is not a "perfect" world and there are not all those "perfect" variables to help me or others be well. I have to consider the thousands of bipolar sufferers who struggle alone without support or understanding. I accept that there are many ways we can help ourselves or be helped in this disorder and many coping skills that can be used ALONG with the medication.

* There are also those suffering that can't be slotted in to any one single label, simply because we're NOT that simple as a human being. We're very complex and unique, and to have labels put on us completely dismisses who we are in our entirety. I visit a Psychiatric Hospital on a regular basis, and many people's needs are the most basic and essential ones. They have had all kinds of different traumas - some have had terrible childhoods, others freak accidents, or abused drugs - yet they all are people wanting to be understood and helped beyond any possible diagnosis. -

I don't "fill" a mold that someone else created for me. I have tried other avenues and going medication free. It almost killed me. I have a VERY productive, nurturing, satisfying life, BUT, I feel comfortable with the meds.

* If you want to take meds and it works, that's great for you, it truly is. Yet as mentioned, it's not the only way and many people seek alternatives and have varying beliefs about what they are experiencing and going through. -

I am sharing with you that these other avenues have not worked for me and that doesnt mean it "might" not work for you. However, I dont think my psyche doc is a quack or lying to me. I have been with him 20 years and he is very careful with my treatment but also advocates many other tools to go along with the meds.

* You're lucky to have a Psychiatrist that you can talk to, you really are. Especially if they are aware of the many dangers and what the drugs actually do to you. -

When you speak of the quackery, you can only speak for those who fit that mold, NOT all psychiatrists.

* You'll find that the majority of Psychiatrists deny the personal experience of an individual over their own thoughts and opinions on the matter, based on a quick first hand and second hand accounts which are purely subjective. In the UK, you are forced to take drugs when you enter hospital, and even at times forced to take the medications in the community. -

You have to do what feels comfortable for you and if you are looking for "like minded" people that can offer lots of support in what you believe, I dont think you will find it here. There are a few but not what you will get from the blog and forum.

* That I am quickly learning, and it's a shame.

Doesnt this guy have a support group? Why would he tout this and leave you hanging? "

* Once again, this video was merely used to open up a discussion. I am not a fan of the guy, nor do I wish to go to a support group of his. I like the system of DS, it just has so many people that completely side with what Psychiatry tells them, without seeing the other side of the argument from people such as Dr. Peter R. Breggin, Dr. Loren Mosher and Dr. Thomas Szasz.

I too, trust my psychiatrist with my health and my life. He SAVED my life. He's been in practice for 35 years. He's a very conservative man. I've begged for ECT during my worst depressions but he tells me that is an absolute last resort treatment.

I was stabilized for 3 years. Then a couple of meds stopped working. Finding the right cocktail is frustrating but worth it once you do. And I am in intense psychotherapy with my doctor as well. He underwent his own psychoanalysis before becoming a practicing doctor, as any good shrink does.

And I know Shelly is very well educated on most every aspect of this illness. I am still learning myself but I would listen to her and what she's been through before I take the word of some wanna be doctor who tells me beepers and Schizophrenics can go unmedicated. That's seriously dangerous information this man is putting out there. If you wish to follow it, that's your choice. I choose to listen to my doctor and do my own research. I trust my doc and myself.