yes, a lot of overprescribing is being done out there.

my pdoc and i have come to use my current meds over a period of years and either both or even just my objection to the side fx of other meds we have tried.

that in mind, i would also like to point out that bp has some major side fx that can be harmful to people mentally, emotionally, physically, financially, and in almost every other way.

it can even (much too often) be the core cause of a (likely preventable) death.

so. i personally weigh my 'programs' (as a WHOLE) carefully against that information as well.

i do think that there are many things that can help us be happy, functioning humans of any 'category' in addition to western meds.

but there can be shared ground there.

xx,
beep.

"Once again, this video was merely used to open up a discussion. I am not a fan of the guy, nor do I wish to go to a support group of his. I like the system of DS, it just has so many people that completely side with what Psychiatry tells them, without seeing the other side of the argument from people such as Dr. Peter R. Breggin, Dr. Loren Mosher and Dr. Thomas Szasz."

Lee, honestly, if you had just asked what others have learned from alternate treatments and therapies, you would have probably recieved a more positive response. The fact that you posted a you tube link with this guy's beliefs, indicated that you also believe.

I think many of us already practice "alternate" therapies along with our meds. Many of us have done extensive research and sought out supportive alternatives to just "sitting with the disorder".

I think what you are struggling with most is your adversity to the meds. At least that is what is coming out in all of this.

I was diagnosed at age 18 and my father was not supportive at all of me taking meds. I am sure he feared owning his mental illness. I was unmedicated for many years with great suffering. It has been a long road for me and medications and alternate therapies, but I have made it a goal to be the best I can be. It takes alot of work.

What age were you diagnosed? Have you taken meds? do you have a pdoc and tdoc? Have you taken other therapies like EFT, CBT, DBT, ACT etc. Many of these can be extremely helpful in managing your disorder. I find that there is a line I cross without meds that spirals me into a "black" hole of endless abyss. At least with the meds, I have a fighting chance.

Hi beepeeagog, thanks for contributing.

lee--

my current pdoc and analyst take me and the rest of my life into consideration in managing my bp as well as some other conditions that intrude on my life in destructive ways.

* Any sensible professional would. Shame there's so little of them.

however, i have had pdocs and analysts who are very much as you describe..."take this...and that...and this other thing...and if you feel like a zombie, well, that's your lot in life."

* This is what's so sad, it happens more often than not, hence the state of the field.

i am not willing to subscribe to the life of a zombie.

* Nor should you have to. You deserve a fit and healthy life like all people struggling with these terrible experiences of the human condition.

but i do think that a balance of western medicine and nontraditional (in our culture) practices can be healthy.

* It sure can be. Just look at the world of healing foods, natural remedies and supplements. Does wonders.

i also expect to have to manage this one way or the other for the rest of my life...

* That's the key though. The healing comes in the ability to manage and overcome what we've experienced in this vein.

and realize that for me, it's likely that some form of medication will be part of that management.

part.

* If that's what you feel helps then you're entitled to go with it.. I'm not here to judge.

and i am wary of anybody who tells me that i don't need my meds.

* A healthy caution is always wise, yet there are people who wish they didn't have to take the meds and are forced to. Like my mother who has been through the system for over 35 years and only ever suffered more due to it.

maybe i need to tweak meds every now and again...

* Once your system builds a tolerance to the effects of the drugs, it will always have to be tweaked.

but a completely unmedicated 'me' usually equals a completely out of control 'me'...'nontraditional' management methods in effect or not...

but hey. whatever works for anybody else...works.

and i also think that there are degrees of bp.

* Well the point is that there isn't much else in place to deal with this, just small pockets of people taking a different angle on how to help us - and they're successful too.

without starting a 'my bp is bigger than yours' discussion, i would definitely put forth that the degree to which mine manifested earlier in life was (mostly) much more manageable than it is now...

anyway.

don't assume that a point of view that is not your own equals a closed mind.

best,
beep. "

* I assume a closed mind to be someone who fails to accept that there are a number of different possibilities contrary to their own, knocking it off as nonsense.

Lee, honestly, if you had just asked what others have learned from alternate treatments and therapies, you would have probably recieved a more positive response. The fact that you posted a you tube link with this guy's beliefs, indicated that you also believe.

* I already explained why I posted the video and opened the discussion, yet to add further that I do agree with some of what the person says and I have had many manic episodes. One of which I came down from on my own without being hospitalised fortunately, and needed no medications at the time. I believe we can be healed if they are allowed to play out without medications, yet it'd take a safe environment with the right kind of people (much like what Soteria tried it's best to do for people). Modern Psychiatry denies people this experience.

I think many of us already practice "alternate" therapies along with our meds. Many of us have done extensive research and sought out supportive alternatives to just "sitting with the disorder".

* Yes, I imagine so. Yet that wasn't said out right now, was it? People were quick to judge the person speaking in the video for having different beliefs and a different viewpoint away from the mainstream.

I think what you are struggling with most is your adversity to the meds. At least that is what is coming out in all of this.

* I struggle with having my personal freedom as a human being violated. The mental health act in this country treats people like criminals. It's the second most intrusive to human rights only to the terrorist act. I want to be free to choose what help I get when I have the experiences I have.

I was diagnosed at age 18 and my father was not supportive at all of me taking meds. I am sure he feared owning his mental illness. I was unmedicated for many years with great suffering. It has been a long road for me and medications and alternate therapies, but I have made it a goal to be the best I can be. It takes alot of work.

* The whole point is to work through that suffering. Why can that not be what you are here to accomplish on the planet? I was diagnosed with ADHD as a young child, but fortunately my mother knew better and didn't allow the prescribing of Ritalin. I struggled in school for different reasons, yet it was home tutoring that I needed to help me through it.

What age were you diagnosed? Have you taken meds? do you have a pdoc and tdoc? Have you taken other therapies like EFT, CBT, DBT, ACT etc. Many of these can be extremely helpful in managing your disorder. I find that there is a line I cross without meds that spirals me into a "black" hole of endless abyss. At least with the meds, I have a fighting chance. "

* I was officially diagnosed I think at 23, yet I experienced my first manic episode after being mistreated by medications (which unfortunately I was foolish enough to explore) at 22. I have suffered with depression since being 8 years old. I'm happy I am almost med free today again.

Just to add Shelly4, the history of the meds I've taken (not including Clopixol) are listed on my profile. I've been fortunate enough to have the finances to pay for a Psychotherapist at one time (and I'm looking to again) yet only CBT and EMDR was available from that person to help. Some of us don't have the luxury of money or location to get better services.

I have definately had my opportunities to work through the suffering. I think I do a pretty good job of it after all that I have learned. The important issue for most is that we become a danger to ourselves and sometimes others when they are not on meds.

I am sure I do have more freedoms than you do in choosing how I will be medically treated and that is unfortunate for you. However, I also believe that in a severe manic or psychotic state, we appear dangerous to others and their priority is to protect themselves and others.

That does not mean we should be subjected to psyche treatments that are cruel or forced on us. Not taking meds is your choice and I am sure you will find ways to work through your episodes. If you research you will also find that those episodes cause havoc on your brain and cognitive abilities also.

I have a family...a husband of 26 years and four sons. I feel I owe it to them to do my best to be stable. I am considered a "high functioning" bipolar but still find it very difficult when rapid cycling. My family and I never know what to expect and the severe rapid mood shifts play hell on their sanity as well. An episode of dysphoric mania is not pretty for me. It results in extreme anger, very risky behavior, and alot of property damage. I am well controlled in that area now but give some credit to the meds.

If I had just myself to be concerned about right now then maybe I would try "med free" again, I am not absolutely sure. I feel certain that this is were God wants me to be and it is how He feels it is best for me to handle my situation.

You can always keep your options open either way if you keep an "open mind" about the psychiatric aspect of this disorder. You cannot "think" chemical changes away. You can work to prevent what triggers them, but you cannot ignore they are there.

" I too, trust my psychiatrist with my health and my life. He SAVED my life. He's been in practice for 35 years. He's a very conservative man. I've begged for ECT during my worst depressions but he tells me that is an absolute last resort treatment. "

* You're entitled to feel that way - just not all of us do about the 'professionals' based on different experiences and different knowledge.

"I was stabilized for 3 years. Then a couple of meds stopped working. Finding the right cocktail is frustrating but worth it once you do. And I am in intense psychotherapy with my doctor as well. He underwent his own psychoanalysis before becoming a practicing doctor, as any good shrink does."

* With that cocktail, you can't even tell what is doing what. It's experimentation and we're the guinea pigs. Don't be surprised if you have to add more to them or change them again at some point.

"And I know Shelly is very well educated on most every aspect of this illness. I am still learning myself but I would listen to her and what she's been through before I take the word of some wanna be doctor who tells me beepers and Schizophrenics can go unmedicated. That's seriously dangerous information this man is putting out there. If you wish to follow it, that's your choice. I choose to listen to my doctor and do my own research. I trust my doc and myself. "

* If you choose to see it as an illness - not all of us do. One can be well educated on a specific topic and still be biased (not that I'm saying Shelly4 is). I do get the impression that Shelly4 has worked hard to get where's she's at and to learn what she has, and that's respectable. However, there are many well educated people and more importantly, wise people in the field who can help people without meds and can help people overcome their varying difficulties away from Psychiatry. The problem is money for those who simply haven't got it.

You dont need "luxury of money" to get most therapies Lee......you can do them yourself, some online, some in the library. It depends on how determined you are to work on yourself.

LeeWatmough, have you been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder? I haven't read all of the replies, as my mind can not focus tonight, although I did scan.

I was born with BP which contributed to much of my severe childhood abuse, being a ginger didn't help.
At 17 i was confined, for 5 years, in an institution for the criminally insane, during cukko's nest era.

I was subjected to old school shock treatments and experimental chemo/hydro therapies, veteranarian drugs included.
The doctor was a Cuban exile with no AMA doctorate, law allowed students to practice in penal/mental institutions.

So, hopefully you'll understand if this sounds a bit abrasive or sarcastic. Matters close to my heart often do. And yes, i walk on the wild side.............med free.

Perception is a subjective concept totally dependent on individual experience.
That's why scientific theory requires proofs to become fact; although many scientific "facts" are only accepted as such because they have yet to be disproven,
i.e.The earth is flat and the planets revolve around it.

One may perceive dog scat as a chocolate bar, doesn't follow that it will taste like a Mars bar; however one with severe psychotic impairment may cherish it as a Kit Kat.

As society has evolved the mentally afflicted have been locked away from the mainstream in an effort to disassociate through fear, shame and ignorance. And witch hunters have persecuted
us through the ages under many medical, religious, political, social, financial or personal agendas.

Doesn't prove that all of us can/need to be "cured". If society can become less judgmentally hypocritical/open minded enough to accept us as individuals of a different colour, than the world
could shine for us too.

Stop trying to fix what isn't broken, just face the music and let us dance to our own drummer. Some of us were meant to remain in Highland reel mode; we'll never fit in your box.

Now when I talked to God i knew he'd undersatnd he said, "Stick by me and I'll be your guiding hand."
I can't help it 'bout the shape i'm in, i can't sing, i ain't pretty and my legs are thin; just don't ask me what i think of you cuz i might not give the answer that you want me to.

Ooppps, there's that "pop" music again, Oh well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoLHfVo8B2s&feature=related

I watched the whole thing. I agree that people going through a psychotic episode need some support and compassion. I disagree that it's related to trauma and just needs to be worked through. I went through a full year of hearing voices non-stop at 15. I was hospitalized, misdiagnosed, and put on antidepressants. I was scared to tell anyone that they didn't work for fear they would put me back in the hospital. It would have been nice to have some support and compassion but working through it certainly didn't do me any good. Eventually the voices went away but they came back on and off until I got on proper medication. If there wasn't a chemical imbalance than the medication that affects your brain chemistry wouldn't do anything to stabilize a bipolar person or stop a psychotic episode. I will say that I learned how to hide my issues from other people very well but I wouldn't call that "healed". I've tried many times over the years to think my way out of depression, mania, and psychosis. It didn't work or I wouldn't have sought additional help and medication. I'm sorry but I have to say that all in all this guy isn't teaching anything more than how to do some yoga and meditation while you're thinking you're God sent to save the world.

I agree with Evelyn. Other than getting spanked a bit for being a strong willed child, I probably had a pretty good life. The strong willed was just a part of the bipolar.

Speaking of your video Lee, the only thing that made me want to vomit was the video. I confess, I had to shut it off at 5 minutes into it. He took so long to say nothing, I couldn't wait for him to come to the scientology conclusions of a few quack docs.

Just for the record - I am med free and bipolar I. It is a very difficult struggle some days, and I believe a holistic approach and prayer has been essential. Am I cured? Never. But I enjoy my life and cope pretty well. Did I need an urgent intervention during my psychosis? Well, after wandering around for weeks with a bunch of hippies and having visions, almost killing myself with stupidity, I don't think the vomiting helped very much.

Too much of pop nonsense, and instant cures. Hard work, and dealing with triggers I might have, on a daily basis, and lots of support from pdoc, family and friends.

No quack cures - just acceptance and surrender - but to a real God, and a real disease.

I, like Evelyn, had no traumas growing up. But I always knew I was different. My thoughts and fears went beyond what any "normal" 6 or 7 year old should go through. I have 2 loving and supportive parents and 3 awesome siblings.

I started going through depressive episodes at 14. My panic attacks began at 18. And originally my parents refused to put me on meds. I tried alternative therapies. For awhile I was fine but my college years are filled with manic highs and rages and crashing lows. When I had a complete nervous breakdown, I finally went on medication.

My doctor only changes one med at a time if something obviously isn't working. He's an excellent doctor who's as concerned for my health as I am. I got lucky ending up with him as my doctor. He doesn't coddle, which makes me happy. He is blunt and straight to the point. He sugarcoats nothing.

All I want is to be healthy and whole and that's all he wants for me. If you, Lee, can do it without meds or even therapy, good for you. But most of us can't. And Bipolar can be fatal as you know. Many beepers commit suicide. I read as much as I can on the subject. I know what's best for me. Not some nobody on Youtube.

The stuff this guy talks about is not new. His approach about trama was par for the course in the sixities when bad parenting was blamed for mental illnesses. I read a book on it in high school that my parents had in our library. Also drugs have come a long ways since then so things are getting "better" and most young schizophrenics having their first episode now get treatment which is considered as curing them.

Also I don't know where he gets his information about length of time of episodes being a few days and only have to go through a couple of them to work out all this subconscious stuff. That's bs. Personally I have had episodes last months and have had more episodes than I can count in the 20 odd years I have had the illness. I would rather be on the meds and able to function in my day to day life than crazy waiting for all my inner trama to be resolved. I have a cousin with schizophrenia and he's always delusional even on the meds he can't function. How do you explain that? A couple of days???? I wish.

Also the rise in the numbers of mental illness is probably because it is going main stream. There isn't as much stigma as years before and people are more willing to seek help today. My alcohol counsellor told me the statistic that 85% of people have a chemical imbalance. I remember a couple of years back it was even in vogue to have bipolar.

This guy has a really bad opinion of doctors and hospitals I wonder where he is from. I am always treated with kindness and respect by my health team and they want to know what I think about what is happening to me. Today the illnesses are treated not just with drugs but with therapy as well (at least where I live and I believe that is the policy across Canada). Patients have a say in their treatment today and play a big role in determining their how their illness is handled.

Personally I believe some of the stuff I go through when psychotic is a coping mechanism which in some way deals with the subconscious. Maybe I am weaker than the "normal" person...maybe I suffered trama as a child from the "overbearing rule-oriented" parent that is talked about in the video but hey who can't say that about their parents when they were growing up. I mean we have all been tramatized in some way. Our parents weren't saints. Every family is a dysfunctional one to some extent. Every person on the planet has had a parent enforce the "rules" that's what growing up is all about learning about living with others and with "rules" hence living in society which is based on "rules". No-brainer that one.

The guy sounds a little paranoid to me with his conspiracy theory about doctors and meds..especially since some of the pictures are disturbing...the woman giving birth to a full grown man I found extremely gross (I think he is very werid) and who is this guy anyways? Why does he post this stuff...he sounds very angry indeed. I tend to believe in human goodness. I just don't accept that doctors would colaborate to keep a group of people ill because of money. I believe they do what is right for the patient to make him or her well. If there was a cure out there I'm sure we all would know about it and our doctors would be quick to dispense it to us. There are so many sick people in the world that doctors wouldn't have to worry about going out of business.

Also if this is a "cure" why isn't it mainstream? Why do people not know about it? Do we really live in a soceity with such low morals and values coming from the most educated doctors in the world? What about the hippocratic oath..do no harm?

I think this guy needs meds and is paranoid...but I'm no doctor nor do I pretend to be (I know my limits). I have done extensive reading over the last 24 years that I have had this illness and I am not a stupid person. In my teens I started researching the illnesses because I knew it ran in my family and it fascinated me. That was when I read that book called "schizophrenia and the family". He is quoting doctors from that era when they family was blamed for the illnesses...what he is saying is not new...it is old stuff and over the years since then it turned out it was harder to treat based on that model than to administer medication that kept people stable so they could get on with their lives. I'm glad for that because having paraonia is not fun I don't care how many tramas I solve it's very painful.

off my soap box

I am actually just about to watch the video.. Lee is not just stirring the pot though.. he is a wonderful and caring friend who does a lot to try and help others... he started this 'conversation' because he does care so much
I will sit back and watch now... bless you Lee.. I know you are trying to reach out to others... we all have our own experience and there is so much out there to explore on mental illness.. I know this conversation is meant to be positive not hurtful..Jan..x