I hope you can let the doctors to be the ones to rule out things (for what it’s worth from one on one experience dealing with family member & Alzheimers units …. Lewy Body Disease Dementia is EXTREMELY different than mild age related Alzheimer’s) different cases can be very different just hope you can keep an open mind & get the necessary testing done.

The only reason I’ve ever brought it up anyways was the many similarities I’ve seen and experienced with a family member to the very things you’ve written.

I’d probably prioritize the testing to all the other stuff that doesn’t seem to be working.

I wish you the best

Alzheimers is just one type of dementia as Missy pointed out. It gets all the attention and money but is certainly not the only type of dementia. My relative's terrible "dementia" was actually considered a brain injury from alcoholism rather than "true dementia." I hoped you would read up on how to redirect behaviors and how to manage the illogical thinking that crops up at times. Just in case it made your life easier.

I don't think her saying she is ugly is body dysmorphia per se. I think it is a symptom of her brain disorder. Forgetting is just one early type of dementia. If your parents were diagnosed with Alzheimers by MRI or autopsy at death, then they did likely have difficulty making decisions or good decisions as the disease progressed. Sometimes we just don't notice or they can hide it for a while. So your wife having an astounding memory while you don't is comparing apples and oranges.

We have to avoid having all or nothing thinking which I hear in many of your posts. She has a good memory so that can't mean she has dementia is one type of rigid all or nothing thinking. Maybe that MRI will show a fully healthy brain and then you will know it is mental health. I propose more open minded, thinking outside the box type of thinking. We don't know what is wrong with her at this point but her behaviors alarm me and my career was working with older adults. I saw similar behaviors in my relative with the alcoholism related "dementia" that wasn't dementia per se. I know how difficult this is for you.

Thanks as always for the advice but challenges continue.

1. Brain MRI scheduled for Tuesday, how do I get her to go.

2. Sleeping Lately she has been sleeping much of the day, sometimes takes a shower during the day and gets in bed. What do I say to her, her therapist said getting regular hours for sleep will help, and pondering things for hours in bed is not helpful, but that counseling is basically ignored.

3. Sons My one middle son got unfairly fired from a high-profile job. It happens, he's dealing with it reasonably, but it has tremendously unsettled my wife. Today she called my son 4 times and texted him 3 and then started calling the other son because she became frenetic when she couldn't reach the fired one. Didn't show up for design consultation on house.

4. Calls Obviously getting repeated urgent calls unsettled my youngest son. He questions what treatment is accomplishing. This new psychiatrist has recommended Lexipro whose impact seems minimal and he originally discussed the addition of an anti-psychotic.

My wife has repeatedly resisted any 2 drug regimen, and the psych said he'd try 1 drug but it has not done a great deal. He might suggest the second drug. Now that my wife still has strange thoughts and continuing disfunction, my youngest son wants to attend the psych meeting and I'm sure he'll push for adherence with the doctor's recommendations. Mom, you're not getting better yourself, let's trust the doctors.

On the other hand, her sister feels the opposite. These drugs are extremely dangerous and they obviously accomplished nothing she'll say. She continually pushes for an explanation, that it's not mental illness. Interestingly she has her own serious anxiety which she does not acknowledge. Her sister is dismayed that her advice is not taken, yet she had significant issues, she would listen and go her own way.

5. Honesty and tools My wife used to be a reasonably honest person, but that has changed. For example, she said to my son she would commit to a 1/2 hour exercise per day but that is not happening. we can't get 10 minutes.

She does not utilize meditation, yoga, or the other stress reduction tools unless she's pushed by me and with 50 hours work, 20 hours cleaning and household work, 15-20 doctor's research and therapy, there's not much time for other stuff. I can't nag for 2 hours to get things done.

Best comment that seems to be applicable, "If we understand that traumatized children and adults get stuck in fight/flight or in chronic shut-down, how do we help them to deactivate these defensive maneuvers that once ensured their survival." The Body Keeps the Score, brain, mind and body in the healing of trauma (87).

Maybe your son coming to the appointment will shake things up a bit for her in a good way. Maybe she’ll hear the concern differently coming directly from him.

I say don’t even bother nagging. It’s an energy drainer for you and it’s probably really unpleasant to her as well.

It’s interesting you convey she’s being dishonest by saying she’s going to exercise or use tools to distress. I mean, sheesh a lot of good, well meaning folks would be considered liars in that case. I have all kinds of good intentions that I often fall down on. I think it’s much deeper than whether one is honest or not. I don’t think it’s character related that way. Intellectually, I know all the things that are good for me that I should do. But sometimes there is really a disconnect between what I KNOW to be true and what I simply don’t have the wherewithal to do. And I’m a fairly high functioning person so I can imagine it’s even that much more challenging for someone struggling with severe behavioral health issues.

For the MRI, I don’t know the best way to nudge her. Perhaps framing it that you want to be sure she’s getting the right diagnosis. I mean if her sister has her convinced the psych meds won’t help her and that she doesn’t have psychiatric issues, then the MRI will validate any physiological/brain heath issues. I would normally keep her sister out of all of it, but if her sister is pro MRI maybe her sister can get her on board.

No easy answers that’s for sure.

I did start pushing on my getting out. Today I suggested we go out around 10 A.M, and got a few minutes, wait, 5, 10 minutes, 1/2 hour. I said I'm leaving at 1:30, P.m. and finally left at 3. She was upset, I got in the car and she came out in a bathrobe nothing underneath and I started driving. I said I'm picking up something at the market and she said she's embarassed because she has nothing on, and did not want to go in the store or wait in the car like that. I reminded her that I asked a minimum of 5 times for her to get dressed but agreed to go home and let her change which she did without a problem and we went to the store.

In that scenario, she became calm and basically normal. Again the problem I have with the dimentia scenario, beyond the memory issue, is that Alzheimer's patients cannot turn normal on and off.

I am reading the Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the healing of trauma. It is a tremendously good book filled with a large amount of supporting research. A lot of her illness is consistent with trauma or PTSD if we view the move, loss of house, and 8 different living places as a traumatic series of events. As someone with set ways and habits, I could see how the moves disturbed her and patients with PTSD came be normal in circumstances where there is no provocative event or trigger.

And it can mess you up. A normal dog who is shocked will after a couple of times try to leave to avoid the shock. (the experiments are more than a little nasty). However a dog which has been repeatedly shocked will stay put and whimper, show dysfunctional behavior but not try to leave.

Bobby, to call her behavior "lying" or "dishonest" is not helpful. What if she isn't lying to lie but says irrational things because her brain is simply doing this?

This is an example of the rigid thinking. This is her new normal. Please accommodate her new normal instead of fighting against whatever is wrong with her. Instead of labeling her as obstinate, lying, difficult on purpose. We females on here have given you push back about this at times.

It hurts and it creates fear within us when our spouses become this debilitated. I do understand even if I push back on some of your statements.

I might also suggest you get someone to help you motivate the wife for the MRI. The sister who doesn't believe it is a mental illness could be helpful in coming early, helping wife dress and eat breakfast, and redirecting her so you guys get out the door. Or maybe the son who is unemployed at this time if he can be less bossy and more kindly in redirecting and motiving his mom. She appears to need a lot of reinforcement or attention from her sons so this might work. Unless he irritates her and makes her more obstinate and irrational, then it is no. Then after the MRI, you make a big deal about how you are taking her out to eat or for ice cream treat depending on the time of day.

Does she need to ride in a wheelchair? Seriously, forcing her to walk may be counterproductive for this MRI visit.

I doubt you will do this either but perhaps having her stay for 7-14 days (the doctors decide) in an older adult unit of a good behavioral health hospital. Those that are affiliated with medical hospitals will be able to give medical treatment on the floor. They will have psychiatrists who are experienced with older adults and they will have staff who monitor her and provide feedback to the psychiatrists, etc. A 24/7 assessment which she is not getting now.

Anyway, take care of yourself also. Try to think outside the box. Flip the script on how you see her behaviors. This stuff can be very distressing.

Thanks for taking the time to write. She was in a behavioral health hospital for 10 days last year but it did not seem to do a whole lot of good though the people seemed nice. They did a CT Scan there and appeared to exclude neurological impairment like Alzherimers.

Agree part of this is a female to male issue, and my therapist is a woman and she has said a few of these things.

It's hard to listen and empathize but accomplish little. My son will be attending the psychiatrist's appt tomorrow, but I've told him that therapists go much slower than business people, asking how do you feel, did this bother you, rather than you have problem A, and you should 1, 2, and 3.

Had a great night tonight! We went out with friends, my wife got herself together pretty well, enjoyed herself, smiled, and we had a great time.

Interestingly, I liked hearing the small criticisms women sometimes give their husbands. No don't put the bag that way because the food will leak. Just realized I wasn't hearing that much, no irritation, perhaps because things didn't matter. Tonight she seemed pretty much her old self.

Connecting things is not easy. but we spent last night listening to a concert on Youtube, and today too, enjoying the music of Jonie Mitchell and Air Supply. I put together a list of concerts we could see in the next few days.

Hopefully with G-d's help this will continue.

Had a great night tonight! We went out with friends, my wife got herself together pretty well, enjoyed herself, smiled, and we had a great time.

Interestingly, I liked hearing the small criticisms women sometimes give their husbands. No don't put the bag that way because the food will leak. Just realized I wasn't hearing that much, no irritation, perhaps because things didn't matter. Tonight she seemed pretty much her old self.

Connecting things is not easy. but we spent last night listening to a concert on Youtube, and today too, enjoying the music of Jonie Mitchell and Air Supply. I put together a list of concerts we could see in the next few days.

Hopefully with G-d's help this will continue.

How would you handle the following,

1. My wife will call the children frequently if not incessantly, sometimes 4-5 times a day. Boys are pretty good but they don't like the constant calls during the day. I can appreciate she wants companionship. However, she had the opportunity to get together with friends last night, didn't go, but may also call them too.
2. Still have the problem with her being alone. Had an important meeting that I tried to arrange by Zoom, couldn't do it, and she then called one son to stay there, he was upset at the last minute suggestion when he had a lot of work.
From an extremely considerate person, she has now become someone in periods of anxiety who will largely ignore other people's wants and needs. Nonetheless we still see she can go back to normal in certain social situations.
3. Psychiatrist is now edging towards OCD as had her hospital psychiatrist, but she indicated she did not want to take a new drug combination. Two recommended she wants to take nothing but would continue with Lexipro, again skeptical about medication.

Medication can help some, but medication can not change the way we think. We have to do it ourselves. OCD is nothing more than the way anxiety manifests, it’s still anxiety. As one who has GAD, which is a smorgasbord of different manifestations, I can tell you the treatment is still the same, no matter the “diagnosis.” What has helped me into recovery is practicing acceptance. Dr Claire Weekes developed this method many years ago and has helped an untold number of folks recover. Your wife’s “symptoms” are related to the anxiety. The sleeping, the empty promises, unkempt appearance, incessant calls to the sons, the strange thinking/thoughts, memory issues, accompanied depression and all it’s symptoms as well. She has learned to play act, appearing normal in social settings. All folks with anxiety, whether they admit it or not, present in public with a “normal” demeanor. But when the front door closes, the acting is over. There is no separating your wife from her symptoms, it’s who she is right now. It is up to her to get well, she has to want it. You need to get that in your own head. It’s something you can’t do for her. No amount of nagging or prodding is going to change her. She has to want it and do it herself. No pill is going to make much difference, the meds given by drs only help stabilize the mood and ease the physical symptoms a little. They are not a cure. That’s why getting the MRI is important, to rule out other causes. Then you can be assured her problem is anxiety and it can be successfully dealt with. I am speaking as one who has been there, experienced it myself. But I had to want it and had to be willing to do the necessary work by facing all the fear and other symptoms anxiety and depression throws at us. Anxiety is a thought disorder, not a disease. It is not something that one can snap themselves out of. It is a culmination of years of negative thinking combined with other factors such as low self confidence.

Thanks for the reply MTD, there's a lot of good material there. You've managed to integrate a lot of behavior and make some sense of it.

1. Actions What should I do Agreed she has to want to get well, and that's been frustrating probably more to my sons than me, for I think I realize this. However, what things will improve the chance of success.

2. Confidence and social situations I would wait at her post-hospitalization facility. People were nice, but you could tell with at least 75% that they had depression and anxiety. Anxious people don't move quickly but have this characteristic slow walk, they may not look people in the eye
In contrast, self-confidence, popularity, and happiness have been my wife's legacy.

She gained weight and many women have body issues. My wife was 219 but was quite comfortable with herself. She decided not to diet and did exercise frequently. She talked about how happy she was before moving.

3. Bottle them up. I will say she is highly disciplined. She would handle 8-12 surgeries a day with demanding, sometimes difficult, surgeons and keep them happy. Unlike other women, she did not ventilate dissatisfaction or, complain. She rarely cried. She would drink a fair amount sometimes a couple of Manhattans or 3 or 4 glasses of wine, and go on fairly frequent vacations. Let's go on vacation or have a bottle of wine would be her approach rather than talking with friends, having a xanax, or arranging therapy, they approach used to work fine.

In her first marriage, while pregnant, her husband cheated. She left a baby and older child and moved 1,000 miles to be with her parents, Originally she said she underwent therapy but this was apparently just a few group sessions where she said little. Unlike most women, she rarely complained about her first husband, and committed to a smooth transition. Her level of complaining historically was similar to many men which is being fairly quiet.

Even when she contracted cancer, she complained very, very little. Older son says she bottled things up.

4. Therapy A lot of the programs today are based on Weeks.
She attends therapy but gets relatively little out of it.
I sometimes go and will identify problems so at least there's a chance of discussing them.

5. Brain MRI She's had the same symptoms with an MRI and CT Scan read as normal. So while I'll push for another, most would review the testing as adequate.

I do hope you peruse the second MRI because

1- as you have stated it was recommended by a doctor

2- ‘the most’ that you say would review the testing to be adequate seem to be family & friends or just not neuro doctors in general

3- people who I have dealt with first hand did need more than one MRI

4- you have to be diligent about testing

5- more testing gives you a better idea of what you are dealing with. It IS productive

6- People are people, some woman complain, some men complain. You’d probably be absolutely shocked to know what I’ve been through & go through on a day to day basis since I don’t ‘complain’ a lot & I’m a woman

7- Have a good day :)

Big hug <3

*ps I probably sound kinda cheeky in my responses (especially about the men women stuff lol :)
But do know I care, I wouldn’t write what I wrote if I didn’t & I am always rooting for you guys, if you knew me in person my words might come off different because it’s hard to tell how someone’s saying something in txt format. But I always say it with a smile on my face & a warm heart

Sending you support, hope & many prayers
Gentle hug to you & Jenny <3