Hlks, You won't like me for this but even I (the betrayed) think they need their own group. Over the course of a lifetime we all make horrible mistakes. I am just glad that we can choose what groups to be part of. The rebuilding marriage group is fantastic.

You might want to go further back in the discussions. I have been to the cheaters sites and have been part of their discussions. My stbx had an affair and ended up leaving our marriage. What I can tell you about the majority of them that I know is that they really are remorseful and are trying to get their lives in some kind of order, much like the betrayed.

I will also say that talking with "the other side" has helped me immensely with my own recovery. But that's me.

And I agree, they do need their own place where they can feel safe to discuss things going on in their own lives. I have not run across anyone there that feels what they did was "right" or that doesn't understand (or want to understand) the pain that the betrayed go through.

One thing that I have definitely learned from all of this is that you cannot control other people's behavior. You can only control your responses and reactions.

I have also learned that you can never expect other people to view things or feel things the way that you do. Your ideas of what is, and is not, acceptable are not the same as everyone elses.

Coming to these conclusions has saved me a lot of heartache.

There seems to be a common theme on this board and in the subgroups and it is like an epic battle between the cheaters and those who have been betrayed.

My opinion? Those who have cheated weren't thinking logically at the time. Those who have been cheated on are looking for logical answers as to why someone would do such a thing or how they could hurt someone else so bady. The unsatisfying truth I think, is that there is no answer that will ever sound complete or make sense to those who have been betrayed. Like those who commit suicide. It makes no sense to those around them why they would want to do that. But then again, expecting a reasonable answer from someone who isn't thinking logically isn't going to happen.

On the one hand, it is very angering to read some of their posts about how they are going on with their lives and things are sometimes going well for them- while many of us here are still hurt and suffering. For them, it is probably very irritating having us attack them as we attack those who have hurt us.

In the end, everyone's opinions and feelings are valuable. They have knowledge to gain from us- understanding just a little bit the hurt and pain that they have caused. And We have knowledge to gain from them that can be just as great.

Some of the posts were simply infuriating... people saying things like just because they cheated doesn't mean their spouse has the right to know what they're up to... blah blah. i'm pretty sure most people on this group would be furious to hear something like that from their SO. Again, the thing that angered me was the lack of remorse in so many of the posts (not all, but many). Maybe I can put myself in their SO's shoes too easily thinking "how hurt would I be if my husband said something like that?" (my husband, btw, also had a good eye roll for that group and he's the one who cheated.. again because of the topics)

I know which post you are referring to in there...and I agree. It's rediculous. If you cheat, of course your SO is going to check up on you- maybe by asking your friends to confirm stories maybe by following you, maybe with keyloggers.

I also think that after being through what we have been through, it's really hard to have tons of sympathy for those who have cheated and are now fussing about how hard it is with their spouse breathing down their neck or for OW who are all upset about not being able to contact and bother married men. I get what you're saying.

I go to those boards and try to skip over the offensive stuff to me. There IS stuff that can be learned there if you look hard enough.

I don't think I'm strong enough yet to sort through all of the crap to get to the stuff I can learn from.. if it's there. still way too painful.

I understand your point, but I have found that when I post on what I call "the other groups" it can go both ways, and I would say that I have gotten some real help and support from some of the Cheaters and OM/OW.

I value the friendship between myself and AKALost tremendously, and Leigh and I are friends who got off to a rocky start and Yorick has been very kind and supportive of me! And Infidel has told me how much it means to him that a Betrayed Spouse has reached out to him in friendship, and so I feel that I might be helping other Betrayed Spouses and helping to save marriages/relationships!

AKALost is working really hard with me to help me save my marriage.

I hope that by being respectful in what I post I can help the Cheaters and OM/OW think about things that they have done in a different way. I strive to be logical and fair-minded and when a Cheater or OP makes a valid, logical point, I acknowledge it!

This is why I am hardly every here anymore...

Truly, these groups should be completely separate, or it should be clarified when joining that this section is for "btrayed spouses only." However, despite our cries, DS never did a thing about it.

For those of you who cannot get past anger, or find it difficult to cope with the (admittedly) wild west approach here. I'd suggest the Surviving Infidelity web site which is very monitored and was founded by people who experienced infidelity.

www.surviving infidelity.com

On DS there is also:

infidelity relationships and shattered dreams

People tend to rationalize what they are doing wrong. They know in their heart they are doing the wrong thing.

I haven't been on to the cheaters support group but I don't see anything wrong with them having one, of course it depents on what they are discussing! My H has a tremendous amt of guilt and shame that he has to overcome and I'm sure he would benefit from some well guided and constructive support, but he doesn't go on the computer at all so he would never join an online group. And as I said depending on how they are offering support is another matter. If the idea is to discuss ways to not get caught, or other distructive ideas then it's not a good thing but for legitimate support on getting thru the guilt and pain in order to get to a better place in the marriage then there's nothing wrong with it.

I would like to say that the group Cheaters Anonymous is not a brag group. It is for people who know they've done something terribly wrong and need to have support to find out how others delt with the pain and guilt of it.
The cheater's that are happy ruining lives do not go to or need a support group. There are new people who come there and are in desparate need of help just like this group. People may not like what they've done and if they come to that group, obviously they don't like what they've done either.
It pain and emotional rollercoaster is very similiar to what the betrayed go through. Some may say that we/they asked for it by getting into that situation in the first place but every one of God's children no matter what the crime, deserves to be able to repent for their sins.
There are former OW's/ OM's and former cheater's in that group who give advice to those who ask for it. It helps to hear from people who have chosen to stay on the right path and learn how they did it so that we don't ever falter again.
We can't change the past, but what we do in the present can determine our future. I invite all of the betrayed to come read the posts to see how the pain of infidelity affects everyone involved, not just the betrayed. We read the many sad, hurtful, painful situations that are in this group and believe me, if we knew how truly devestating our actions would be, we might not have crossed that line. In knowing now, it keeps us from ever wanting to do it again.