I have never felt "hate", but both my husband and I have struggled with this issue. Gay people say we are afraid to "come out", that we are one step behind, and straight people think it's a phase... Although both of us first thought of ourselves as gay and then realized we were bi.

I think I agree with aera back on the first page. I also like what sweetpoison said about there sometimes being a bit of jealousy involved. Some people have a big issue with with anyone they see as a rival. And I think if you're seen as a rival, it's not going to matter which sex you are to that person, they're just going to be against you. So in that case, it has little or nothing to do with hating a group of people.

being bisexual makes you part gay...right?? Then wtf would they do that. people are gonna hate each other for one reason or another no matter what you do..

hate is a strong word.. but what i think people in the lesbian community dislike or don't understand and want to stay away from is the fear of falling for a bisexual who may want to switch hitters somewhere down the line..altho not all of us are like that.. i think that some have been hurt badly by it and choose to steer clear because of that reason...

I asked my friend Brian for his perspective on this, being a member of the gay community.


Hi Wendy!

As it turns out, I have a little time tonight! (RARE)

I read through the whole thread - quickly, mind you - and here is what leaps out at me:

In adolescence we start to define ourselves by association with peers. Our peer group IS who we are, determines who we are. Later on we do it the other way around, we choose our peer group based on who we know ourselves to be. You see this in many different areas of human experience - faith, for example. The people who derive their identity from God and Bible as the authority and as delivered by a particular church or preacher vs. people who choose a congregation because it more closely reflects spiritual realities as they've come to understand them personally.

I think the same thing happens with regard to sexuality, and the people who are hung up on "well, you gotta be one or the other" are the Orientation Fundamentalists.

Which is the long way around stating Observation #1:

Some people don't tolerate bisexuality because they are hung up in black-and-white thinking. The idea of a "spectrum" of sexuality is not one they get. I suspect this same type of thinking is responsible for "well, bis just can't make up their mind, they need to pick a side." My guess is that people stuck here may also fail to understand how a bisexual chooses a partner and makes a commitment... and make the assumption that a person will act on all their attractions. Forgetting that bisexuals who make a commitment make the same commitment any other oriented person makes. And that all the other dynamics of open/closed/poly/mono relationships still apply.

Which brings me to Observation #2:

The thought that sexuality might be fluid or that there may be some choice in the matter is a HIGHLY LOADED subject.

Many religious conservatives believe that anyone who is not behaving heterosexually has deliberately CHOSEN to be otherwise. Though when pressed some of them get a bit vague as to whether or not the choice was conscious -but they will still insist it was a choice.

It is THIS opinion which leads to so much of the dreadful behavior aimed at non-heteros, like reparative therapy, the ex-gay movement, and ostracism. My parents didn't speak to me for 8 years after I came out because they thought this would "tough love" me back to Jesus and heterosexuality. The people I associated with at church dropped me for the same reason.

So as a gay man I have had to heavily invest myself in the argument that I did not choose to be this way, that this is fundamentally WHO and HOW I am.

Consequently, it took a while before I could wrap my head around concepts like:
- for some people sexuality can be a bit more fluid over the course of a lifetime or
- that sexuality exists on a spectrum, including mine, which means that sometimes opposite gender attractions occur

I also think that bisexuality has been used against those of us who identify as more gay or lesbian by the ex-gay movement. My thinking is black-and-white enough to disbelieve that anyone can really change their spots, so the highly touted and publicized "success" stories in my opinion can only have been effected by someone whose Kinsey rating is somewhere closer to the middle. Bisexual, in other words, more capable of happily being in relationship with people of either gender, and misrepresenting that capability as orientation change.

I think that for some people resentment of bisexuals can come from what looks like a chameleon-like ability to flourish in any setting, but also for being used as "proof" that the rest of us should change.

Regarding orientation fluidity - I wonder if people who experience a gradual shift in orientation over the course of a lifetime are really bisexuals whose focus changes for whatever reason, that the potential for relationship with either gender always existed but circumstances, attitudes, environments change enough to allow the person to explore different directions. I don't know.

But I do know that the thought such a shift could occur can feel politically dangerous to someone who has had to insist/resist for years against "repent and let God change you" with the argument "THIS is how I am."

So it makes me think that resentment of bisexuals in the gay/lesbian community could be reflective of a level of perceived threat. Or that gays and lesbians might have to seriously reconsider what their own orientation means given the evidence of the existence of bisexuals (back to the black-and-white thinking again).

All of the above is why I encouraged you a while ago to talk to other bisexuals. I do believe that while we have a lot in common there is still much about the bisexual experience that I do not know. You would think that a group of people who understand what it is like to be marginalized would refrain from marginalizing. I think it has to do with the way humans socialize into packs and fall into "us" and "them" categories - and that's the adolescent vs post-adolescent identity thing.

Another unsettling example: recently friends of ours had a pre-Thanksgiving potluck gathering. 20 gay men. Several couples, a few singles. Good God, I never heard so much racist talk in one room - it was profoundly disturbing. Which brings me to Observation #3:

Liberal in one arena does not necessarily mean liberal in all.
.............>
and my response:
A couple of my own thoughts...
One is that even the bi community is not entirely in agreement about how to choose a partner and make a commitment. Some alternate... sometimes havea relationship with men, breaking up, then either going on to woman OR another man. Others feel they can have simultaneous relationships, one with a man and one with a woman.
I love what you said about post-adolescent identification and deriving identity from a particular group of people. I think that's what clinched it for me realizing about my own bisexuality... I identify well with either the simultaneous or the either/or variety of relationships there is definitely a same sex as well as opposite sex attraction that I feel.
And yeah I could see that sexual choice and sexual fluidity might be highly loaded but I think some people are just shooting blanks! As far as I'm concerned, I'm not particularly caring to quibble as to whether I am doing things from a deep Freudian pit or because of something biochemical or whether I'm one of the X-men. Most important is that it just is what it is and it seems perfectly normal to me.

In fact, I don't even know that I would call some of my attitudes as overtly homosexual as much as they are simple an attempt not to be repressed or oppressed by traditional gender stereotypes. Or perhaps I see it as a part of growing up. I think you've really hit on something with this concept about control through denial of maturation. My family seems very immature, very developmentally arrested, in some ways.

Right now I am being threatened with a bit of ostracism myself. Any break in the party ranks you see...I haven't declared anything, but even a hint of anything "subversive" is enough to get my father ruffled. My mom is a bit easier as long as the family watch dogs are not around, but even she has picked on me for my attitudes.
Conversely, I am thrilled that you are able to appreciate the bisexual perspective while identifying yourself as gay. I agree with you about being able to change spots. Some spots are good, especially if you happen to be a leopard. I like leopards just as they are.

And lastly, thank you for that amazing insight about being liberal in one area but not so in others. You are a rare gem of liberality and I am pleased as all get out to have you as my friend!

I think a lot of people just associate being bi with not caring who you have as long as you get someone and bring it out in the open for attention...which I admit a LOT of "bi" people do.

I don't think they hate bi people...just people who say they are to get the attention of others.Much like women who pretend they like other women so people will want to visualize the 3some.

Well, Nie has a point about the "girls gone wild" pseudo bi's, they are annoying because they give true bisexuals a bad rep. The main problems: I hear from straights & gays are:
1) they believe we're in a transition phase
2) they think we just can't choose
3) They think we're posing or ashamed to be the homosexuals that we really are, so we have a front so as not to be fully gay.

To this I answer:
1) some people are, but there really are bisexuals, we are not a myth
2) being straight, gay. or bi isn't a choice
3) we're not ashamed, we're really bi

i agree with you mycoulours...on all of that i believe from what i've heard and read that they think we are in a transitional phase and i think that its just not understood that it is not a phase its just that it is how we are..the confusion comes in where the people who really are in a transitional phase and call themselves bi when they really havne't come to terms with there sexuality yet...

I've just been talking with several gay friends & two things emerged:
1) many gay people don't like the concept of bi because it "waters down" the gay movement.
2) many gay people find it much easier to accept bi's of the opposite sex than their own. That's a big one. Weird, huh?

Hey Hiks,
I'm bi cause I like being with both. My bf kinda gets it but doesn't like it cause he feel he can't compete with another female and he's right. I love being with him and we have great sex but there are those times and you know what I mean Hlks when you just want to be with another woman. So I have this friend she also has a bf and we do see each other from time to time as a fun play time thing and is great to be with her and then it's great to be back with him.
Does that make sence?

i definitely think about this too. I don't know why they would discriminate against people who they think are "confused". I personally didn't think bisexuality was a choice, i do however think it's a choice to be straight or gay..idk. No scientific evidence proves our sexual orientation...yet..idk.

I am a gay man and no I do not hate bi people.
I have had many bi friends and feel what ever floats your boat. sexuality is not a choice.
My first relation ship was with a married man (and yes hie wife knew)

Not all gay have the idea. I always think we LGBT should stand in one line. We LGBT get many objection from straight. If we repel each other, life will be harder for us LGBT. Actually, there are a lot of gay and lesbian come out to be bisexual, as they are not sure about it, only take one site, Take the bisexual community Bimingle.com for example, there are also a lot of gay and lesbian, they never repel each other there as we are like-minded friends, we have similar life style.

Not all the Gays, hates Bisexual. And not all bisexual hated by gays. There are some gays that they dont really want to be friends with Bisexual because the fact that they dont even know how to approach them, without changing how they used to approach someone, of course they are pretty much comfortable approaching straight guys/girls cause the mentality of these type of person are confident enough to be friends with them. Because some of Bisexuals are afraid to be labeled as being gay. Thats the reason why some gays are having difficulties dealing with bisexuals. Of course Gays are just concerned of how bisexual will react once they approach them.

Historically, bisexuals are often seen as being promiscuous and trying to hang on to their heterosexual status by heterosexuals and homosexuals alike and yes, this stigma still persists unfortunately. But not by all of them by no means. Things have been getting better in the last 20 years compared to what they use to be that is definitely a fact. Research on sexual orientation is much more fluid than anyone has ever imagined, which hasn't really focused on bisexuals exclusively. We were all lumped together with all the "other sexual orientations" (LGBTQ and so forth). So what I do when confronted with bias minds, I hit them with the science research. Look up how many sexual orientation scales you find on the internet and there are more than there where even 10 years ago. Not everyone has an open mind to all things --that's just a human fact. For example, I'm sure there are people here that would scoff at swinging, polyamory, or earth-based Paganism but here I am, one voice of many exceptions to the norm.