Something I just learned today is that in the Greek New Testament, the word for "forgive" actually means "To send away." The connotation is of saying to another person, "I refuse to carry these debts for you."

i LOVE matt's reply...#10. that is exactly what i feel. you can forgive and relieve yourself of the negative effects of trauma but you don't have to let go of anger. anger isn't necessarily bad if you are able to channel it in a healthy way.

i have been able to forgive my rapist. some days i waiver a bit. but for the most part, i don't have that sick feeling surrounding him and the rapes anymore. i am still angry and i know what he did is wrong...but i don't have the same amount of anxiety or depression. when i'm angry, i exercise or scream or hit stuff (like big mounds of dirt of with a baseball bat!) and then i feel GREAT!

read reply #10. i also like this last one...#177. it's never easy to let go and put all this crap where it belongs...on the person who caused all the crap! but that's where it belongs...it isn't ourts to carry!

For me forgiveness is not about other people it is about myself. I do not forgive my rapist or my childhood abuser I can't at least not right now. I know for me I held myself responsible for so much of both of my abuses I though that it was me causing them, inviting them all of the shame I felt was on me. Now I am allowing myself to forgive myself for the years of destructive and self blaming thinking. I know now where the blame, shame, disgust, anger, and hatred should be. For me I forgive the seven year old me for not telling, I forgive the 16 year old for not telling and not pressing charges, I forgive myself for having thoughts and plans for suicide I forgive myself for all of the self blaming I have done. Because when it comes down to it I did what I had to do to survive. I do not forgive myself in the act that I have done something wrong and unworthy, but more in a way of realizing my past and putting the blame, shame, disgust, anger, and hatred on the men that made me feel that way. Forgiving myself is a way of letting go of my past and letting more peace into my life.

This isn't normal forgiveness I don't think but this is how I see forgiveness.

Just to make things interesting, here's an article on the concept of "healthy non-forgiveness":

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199907/must-you-forgive

Of course, how they defend non-forgiveness as being "healthy" is by first buying into the lousy definition of the term in the first place. Sure, if you define forgiveness they they have (i.e., pardoning an offender), it's moral to not forgive. But when you have a more enlightened concept, such as purging, purifying, and sending away, then it becomes VERY healthy, even life-affirming, to forgive in that manner.

To simplify it:

Forgiveness that means pardoning an offender is an anti-Survivor action.
Forgiveness that means becoming purged and cleansed of an offender is a very PRO-Survivor action.

To simplify it:

Forgiveness that means pardoning an offender is an anti-Survivor action.
Forgiveness that means becoming purged and cleansed of an offender is a very PRO-Survivor action.

This is good...good simplification and truth!

-- Forgiveness that means becoming purged and cleansed of an offender --

Personally, I find he idea of being purged or cleansed of an offender problematic. We aren't tainted by offenders. I don't need to be cleaned of him. he tainted himself. I, you, all of us, are as clean as snow.

Maybe we need to forgive ourselves things we've chosen that have ultimately been hurtful to us. I can buy that, but that isn't purging myself of the offender. That's purging myself of non-constructive reactions to pain and trauma and finding healthier more life giving ones. Further, when that happens I win: not just in relations to the original trauma but also to future trauma that might make me once again consider the same unhelpful response.

I realize that, but sheesh, Elisheva, pick it apart! :)

You know what I mean. People FEEL that way, so the words "purged" and "cleansed" have usefulness to them.

i don't see it as purging myself of the offender. i see it as purging myself of the negative impacts the offender had on me. i think those are two different things. i felt like orlando had emotionally abused me - telling me i was nothing without his help, said i didn't know how to ride, said everyone hated me so i had to have him to protect me, yada yada yada, crap that made me feel worthless and isolated. as i have begun the healing process and been able to see that he is sick...that someting is wrong with his heart, his spirit...i have been able to forgive him and let go of those abusive words and feelings. they flew away from me...lifted off my shoulders. they are really words that reflect how he feels about himself. kinda like the kids saying "i'm rubber and you're glue. whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you!" he's glue...he get's it back! so, i'm not purged of him...he's a part of my history. but in forgiving him, i have let go of the negativity that he left in me. and he still a convicted felon. and i don't excuse that. but i feel a whole hell of a lot better about me! SNAP! :)

I agree we aren't tainted by offender. I guess I look at it more as tainted by the effects of the offender, or the effects of the sexual abuse/rape that linger. I want to be cleansed of those...I want them off of me bc I do not want to become a bitter person. And if I don't let go--I will be. That's what I read into it.

As for pardoning an offender...I don't think that is our responsibility which is why I wholeheartedly agreed with that.

hahahha writer....we were responding at the same time. saying the same thing. separated at birth...

But Matt - it is actually important to me to not feel that way and not to own it as mine. I feel like that is what people, including the rapist want us to feel, but I don't feel it is the truth. People also FEEL like damaged goods, but I doubt you'd endorse phrases that affirm that. (or is that what you were trying to say with the smily? )

Writer34 - tainted by the effects of the offender - yes - thats less difficult to me. But again I want to challenge.

Is it really the offender's effects that damaged us? Or a way of coping with the pain he caused that damaged us? Bitterness, despair in society, foreshortened expectations, distrust, disowning one's own value, drugs, self-injury, sexual grieving - all of those are ways to cope with the deep deep pain of what happened to us. We may have "chosen" them by default because we couldn't see another way or because the pain was so great we just needed to do something fast and then got trapped into a pattern, we clearly chose them in response to another's action and any damage caused is surely the responsibility of the offender who set up the rigged circumstances of choice ....

but they are still our behaviors which is why we have such power to change them and heal by choosing new more constructive behaviors. I see them as our responses, not the rapist's effects. I see them as the rapists responsibility, not his effects. Because they are our responses, we can respond differently. They are the one thing in this whole mess that stays ours to change and control no matter what damage the rapist tried to wreck.

Finally, even my most dysfunctional responses and those I see in others are still not -in my eyes- tainting. We're not less valuable or loved or precious in the eyes of those who understand nor in my beliefs in the eyes of God because of how we coped. So whence the feeling of taint?

I agree with you Elisheva in that we are no less valubale or loved in the eyes of God bc of how we coped. I was just telling someone the other day that God looks at the heart first and foremost...He deals with the secondary issue of how we coped after. So, from God's view...no tainting. Our hearts are more important to Him than our coping mechanisms so no shame will come from Him.

You know, it may be a bit of both that damaged us, but I do believe the offender has much responsibility in the effects that damaged us. I also recognize the fact that our choice of coping also intensifies that damage.

For example, off topic but applicable. When I moved to OK 9 years ago, I was free for the first time in my life. For 2 whole years I was free; my life wasn't bound (at least not recognizable) or hindered in any way. Ihave never felt that before...and after those 2 years I haven't felt that since. Something happened that totally crushed me in my moment of pure authentic freedom. The 3 people I trusted the most crushed me by decisions they made. Devastated. And I have not fully recovered from that yet.

So, is it their effects that have damaged me?..that have hindered my growth and recovery? Or is it my choices that led me to a place of being stuck? In all honesty, I believe they bear most of the responsibility. Their choices effected me. They still do today. I have a hard time in accepting real friendship bc I think I am "too much for people" or going to say/do the wrong thing. I carry that with me today and am still trying to walk out of it and believe true freindships are possible. They were the offender and the effects they put on me damaged me. What did I do in result...I've actually been fighting my way back to the land of the living since then and trying to overcome by healthy methods the damage they have done to my heart and the effects they left me to deal with. So, my coping mechanisms in this instance cannot be attributed to damaged effects on me.

Now back to a rapist and our responses. Our responses are our responses, which leave us the room to choose how we respond as well as the power to change them. Yet, just because we hold that choice and power doesn't mean the rapist didn't leave his mark...his effects. Yes his act was his responsbility, but he also left us with deep seated effects that never would have been there had not. So, yes, I think that is where my belief that the rapist effects hold damage to us. The initial damage is done by the rapist; the secondary damage can be attributed to our coping of the mark he left.

The feeling of taint, I believe, comes from the nature of the crime...the lies we begin to believe about ourselves...the way we cope...the whole inner structure of our soul as the crime committed against us is one of the soul. The tainting feeling comes from the sexual assault/rape itself; not the way we coping. And it's such a hard feeling to escape even when the mind knows the truth.

Yeah, the smiley is the most important part of the sentence.

The difference, of course, is how one knows the truth versus how she FEELS the truth. We know that victims are not contaminated or in need of cleansing, but they darned sure FEEL like it. That can be expressed in many ways, such as Poodle's contrast between cleansing herself of the perpetrator, versus cleansing herself of his effects. One isn't necessary, and the other is very healthy. But here's the thing: healing often happens in the poetry of things, not in the prose of them. The emotional experience of symbolic cleansing is very positive, even though it's still possible to dissect it for precise fact and meaning.

Ahem.....I'd like to point out that Elisheva is my twin, reversed! :D I 'dissect' things Matt says without her elegance..just because it's fun!

I liked what Writer wrote about God seeing what's in our hearts not in our actions/coping after. I met with a priest way back when I first started working through this. I sat down with him with this HUGE chip on my shoulder, just waiting for him to tell me that if I didn't ask God for forgiveness I wouldn't be forgiven, ready to tell him where he could shove the Catholic faith. He was the first person to tell me that I my choice of action after the rape wasn't something I needed to ask for forgiveness for. Intellectually I knew it, so the level of relief I felt at hearing it was a surprise. For me that showed me that knowing something and believing it are two very different things.

I for one bought into the whole tainted, feeling contaminated feeling. That 'gross' feeling was overwhelming. It took a long time to come around to a different way of thinking and feeling. Anything that helps that process is worth exploring. Mine is more of how many nasty thoughts I have if I think too much about him, I think that's the biggest reason I don't and won't allow myself to dwell on him and the details too much.

Matt, I do understand the poetic power, but I think we need to be very careful with poetry. I'd like to see us find poetry that is both powerful, evocative, and true. Clearly, a lot of survivors also find "damaged" to be evocative. I'll conceded that "damaged" is a lot more loaded than "tainted" - damage carries the possibility that it can't be fixed whereas taint we often see as something more superficial. Still, I don't think either really helps us because we are taking on board something that isn't really ours.

----

Question: how much of this talk of taint is a way of avoiding the issue of anger?

As I see it, what happens when someone offends us is we feel anger, loads of it. Some anger is rightful, holy, and empowering. Some anger is unconstructive energy that sends us in circles and makes us feel like victims, lost, wounded, impacted, tainted, damaged. A key part of healing is sorting out which is which.

Holy anger validates our worth and the worth of any person who has been treated as we have. This is where I feel that that forgiveness without a process of repentance and reconciliation cheapens forgiveness. I think there is a kind of letting go of holy anger when we reach the point that we can trust fate, God, the universe, to right the balance and have compassion on our suffering. I'm willing to call that forgiveness because it keeps the connection between sin, compassion, repentance, and responsibility clear.

On Yom Kippur 10 days after the rape, I was able to "forgive" but only because I believed that God would not until this man repented. I do believe or at least hope that my forgiving in some way empowered God to be more involved in bringing about this man's repentance as I used my free will to invite God's mercy in and I think part of free will is that God has voluntarily made God's self subject to our permission when it comes to involvement in the affairs of human kind (that's how I understand the importance of prayer.

If forgive=Letting go means letting God be God. If it means me focusing on the parts of my life and world I have some control over I can take that on board. If it means letting God deal with an offender over whom I have no control, then I can accept that. God is in a better position to deal with this than I am anyway. Ultimately letting go of holy anger is an act of faith - God has enough compassion for me that God will not pardon this man until repentance is genuine.

But I feel differently about forgiveness and the unconstructive sort of anger that leaves us feeling like victims, lost, wounded, impacted, tainted, damaged. This kind of anger is a coping mechanism. Letting it go _is_ healing. It does let the past be past. It does let us move one and focus our attention some place else other than the rape. But I don't get why that sort of letting it go needs to be called forgiveness. Why do we need to call it forgiveness? Who, what are we forgiving?

Why not just call it purging bitterness? Or even rebuke? From my reply #66

-- The closest Judaism comes to an obligation to forgive can be found in Lev 19:17 "You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor and not bear his sin.". But this isn't called forgiveness (m'chila) in Judaism. It is the mitzvah of rebuke (hochiach). Elie Weisel's challenge to the German parliament is certainly an example of fulfilling this command. Depending on the circumstances it could mean anything from respectfully telling your spouse/parent/child why you are mad at them to reporting a crime or hanging up anti-rape myth posters around a college campus. It would also include Matt's idea of purging and various other's ideas of letting go since holding onto the pain in a destructive way (hate in the heart) is really a form of bearing someone else's sin. --

Writer34 wrote:
-- The feeling of taint, I believe, comes from the nature of the crime --

I agree it does come from the crime, but I understood it as my horror at what I witnessed. I think maybe sometimes we forget that as survivors, we weren't just victims but witnesses. We watched a fellow human being do something unthinkable and profane in the deepest most awesome sense of the word. To me the feeling of taint wasn't because of the sexual nature, nor because of the aftermath - it was right there in the rape when I watched a human being defile himself in a spiritual and existential sense. Poetically speaking, I saw a human being murder himself that night, or at least a large part of himself. He breathed but a little or maybe a lot of what is holy and God-given about _him_ died by his own hand/choice. I don't have any happiness about that. i feel horrified.

I think the feeling of taint came from our shared humanity. As human being we are connected so even though it was he who defiled himself, being a witness makes me feel a share in it, even though I bear no responsibility for his acts. To see him destroy a part of himself affects me. I know a possibility about human choice first hand that once upon a time was only a story told by others. I see tears in God's eyes that I never could see before.

Our capacity to feel taint at another's action speaks to our humanity - a humanity we held onto when the rapist let it go.