I'm not in any live support groups. I don't identify with people physically so typed conversations seem similar to live ones but with less confusion since everything is recorded for easy reading and understanding.
In my experience people are more prone to be jerks online because then anonymity and lack of real world consequences. But that might be because I don't get around enough.

I don't mind admitting that I am changed often by coming to DS PTSD, and for the better. I often come distracted by the day to day cares of work and bills and life's chores. Then someone here has actually opened up about a problem or shared a piece of reflection, and I focus and go to a deeper, more open place, too.

It happened in my face to face support groups, too. I'm glad it also happens here, even if we can't meet face to face. The downside of being online is that, of course. We can't communicate in all of those gestures and expressions we have in our vocabularies. And there are those who may fabricate an identity and troll. Although I remember some once in a while in face to face support group meetings who played games, too.

There are a few advantages to being a support group online here. In face to face groups, the better public speaker often holds the floor week to week. Here, the shy voice may be heard more. Don't know how the avatars relate to social growth, since my not changing mine is more about tech ability and lack thereof than anything else.

Trolls and censors are everywhere, live or online, in my experience.

I actually do patrol for trolls, but my definition of a troll is fairly strict. People having a bad day? No. People reacting or reflecting because they're getting triggered? No. Coming to deliberately cause harm and giggle about it? Yes. I've seen people go so far as to threaten suicide and actually in real *be laughing* at the concern it causes. To me, that's a troll.

I think most harm in such interactions is not always fully or even partially conscious---I sure don't set out to be a beyotch, I just gotta remember that the Cancel button is my *friend*.

And as you say, Arfie, the lack of visual cues removes a serious tool for interpretation. The words "Look, you're kidding yourself" are one thing when typed out---and in person, can be anything from a snide putdown to a tearful hand out to someone in need. Emoticons just don't convey the way body language can. I mean, we can see as we speak how our words affect someone---but when they're readin gat their leisure? We have no way of knowing if they're in a good mood, bad mood, no mood, tired, in pain, bored, etc.

To me, avatars are the online equivalent of a social mask and, as appropriate to the individual, cosmetics. I don't wear make-up to enhance my looks but to hide myself, for example, so my avi serves that purpose online. In real life, cosmetics make me feel like I can better hide weaknesses like being tired, ill, in pain, etc. but that's me.

I just try to remember the rule about "I do promise to be nice" that's under this here comment box. I may clench my jaw and grit my teeth online and in real life, but half of every interaction I have is *me*---and now I'm rambling, sorry!

Yea, muji, there are/were ALLOT of game players in the live support groups, too. Including me. Those folks are a pronounced subject of this thread. I subscribed notion that virtually all of us arrive with one sick game or another that drove us to therapy in the first place. My live support groups are where I picked up the notion of, "Healing hopes for all. No exceptions." I came to play. I stayed to heal.

As for how changing avatars can aid in social development... I wonder - only wonder ...

My own first internet was US Army point-to-point circuits in 1973. I was 19. My first "handle" (now called an avatar?) was, "Pizza Face." It is not even possible to know how many PTP, DIN, BBS and WWW handles/user names/avatars I have had since. The wonder is if my high tech "name game" has paralleled my personal development. Here on DS, I have only changed once, from my real name to Arfie. I decided I like the security of anonymity.

Here, inside this little slice of DS, I have watched many folks change avatars and wondered if there was a bit of personal re-defining (re-framing?) that was going on with the change. For several, it really has looked like genuine progress.

Again... Just wondering... Don't accuse me of knowledge...

I don't play games, or do live support. In fact I am usually the last one in the office to know I am in the office politics game at all.

I have gotten a lot out of the this group. So far, no jerks, no game players that I have found. People have opened my mind with there thoughts on topics, sometimes my reaction to those thoughts sparks some anger but I have come to realize people are entitled to their opinions and thoughts. This groups is helping me become a more rounded, caring and empathic person with an open mind. I think this group has helped so much with my recovery, by allowing me to look at therapy with an open mind this time. I was very negative, fighting the therapy with a this is stupid attitude. It took me a while to accept what I have and ask for help. It is much easier when you are swimming with the current, rather than fighting it.

I have very mixed feeling right now about this group, but they are my own issues. I understand why my therapist thinks this is a bad idea. I cannot help by feel pain and worry about people. Sorry it is who I am and I think that is who most of us are here. However, right now I need to be selfish and look after me first. I get that, I am sick, I cannot be deal with others pains right now. On the other hand I have a group who has given there support to me when I have needed it. They have support and encouraged my recovery. I may not personally know people, but I know more about people here than their families likely do. Same with my family, you guys know more about my feelings than my family. It is easier to talk type online to a group. I am an introvert.

Like life itself there are both good and bad and this group is no different.

CC, my therapist also has concerns about my getting emotionally invested, so I limit my time to X minutes per day, Y times a day. THat helps. But it's sometimes my only social connection, so ti's hard....

I changed my avi from a snarling puma to a peaceful one because I was tired of feeling scared and angry. I wanted to reset my avi as a way to reset my mindset. A wary but peaceful cat is far more my goal than a screaming one.

I think a lot of us play games not even knowing we're doing it at first, and feel awful when we do figure it out. We have ot remember we were often raised in situations where games-playing of the negative kind was a survival skill. I fight very hard to not bring that here. I fail, but I at least fight. I gotta have that much for a victory.

As you can see, a subject that fascinates me.

I remember one sexual assault support group where each of us was called "Jane" so we couldn't reveal our real names by accident, or anyone else's for that matter. It was very confusing.

I'm not in any live support groups so that is why I come here. You are right though, we cannot confirm each other's identity. I let to believe that most people here are genuine. But I have come in contact with people over the internet who were not genuine and wanted to talk about bad things for their own sick reasons.

Lack of body language does cause a lot of problems.

I dunno, I am just really lonely a lot, and sort of...have been limping along in life for a long time.
...I don't really feel like there's any reason for me to be here.
So I try to help people as an excuse for my use of oxygen and fossil fuel.

"The Troll Patrols" ... Are you talking about DS choosing to have moderators on their site?

DS has set out Rules of the Road as it is a support site... No one has to be on here unless it works for them... That's my take on it... This site has set out rules to protect people that might be ill or in a more 'fragile' state due to what they're going through in their lives

When there is strife on the boards it can have a profound effect on members due to this being a site for support

When I first came here I was taking care of both of my parents full time who were dying...I wasn't up to facing more pain on the only place I could come for support as my mom had Alzheimer's and couldn't I couldn't leave the house but for 2 hours twice a week

I believe in DS and that it tries to protect us in a reasonable way (I think) from more upset in our lives

This is the internet and there are those who do want to hurt others...I'm glad that there are some rules here... I think that they matter

To me, there are trolls everywhere both on the internet and in person. Suncloud, I think when they say troll patrol they mean they are watching out for each other to make sure there are not troublemakers and letting DS know if its not seen already :)

It is difficult to know what body language is behind a post and I try to convey my emotion as much as possible to give a better picture. Never have I gone to live support groups because in person contact scares me so much.

I think the Avi makes some sense, I have certainly changed mine dependent on my mood and right now I "think" it is something I want to keep as Leo has said to remind me of growth and good things.

I also like what Rizen has said, less confusion since everything is recorded for easy reading

No, Sun Cloud, the moderators are a different phenom. What I am calling the Troll Patrols are the self-appointed vigilantes who operate without checks, balances or validation. Their authority is typically based on media splashes and gossip.

My hat is off to the DS moderators. You guys really are great!!! Thank you for a job well done.

I totally know what you mean by the Troll Patrols arfie!

Fibro board was deliberately and painfully trolled a couple years ago, and after that, I am wary of certain things, but frankly, the CLs and admin and moderators do great, so I feel safe on DS as much as I feel safe anywhere. I figure anyone has off days, weeks, months, and true malice is pretty easy to spot, so...

I do informally patrol, but I mean that in the sense of reporting to DS when I find something questionable and let them handle it.

Among the many times I witnessed a game player staying to heal was a fellow in a national conference in Tijuana, Mexico. I was there with two female friends from Ecuador. This fellow arrived drunk and stupid, trolling for prospects. He immediately zeroed in on the three foreigners. The entire conference was revving up for mob action. We assured them it was under control. Irritating as a pocketful of nettle, but under control... Our drunken troll got massive doses of the program in the course of assuring our conference sponsors. As he sobered up, he seemed to be listening with new ears...

The conference was only 3 days. Seeds can be planted in three days, but growth takes time. Our conference sponsor emailed us later that our drunken troll had grown into an enthusiastic participant...

Just reminiscing...

Arfie, good reminiscing.

At an Al-Anon meeting back in my early years, we were asked to ask a different question. As family members of alcoholics, most of us under 25, the big question that came up in group was "Why does this person hurt me?" .... We were encouraged to change that around to asking "Why do they hurt themselves?" That changed a lot for a lot of us, and your story brought that to mind. Sometimes, the answer lies in how we ask the question.