Yes. I know what you're saying is the truth. But. It's never just that easy.

It isn't that your son isn't athletic enough it's the fact allowing him to use as that is still abuse.

My dad was physically and wmotional abusive and it screwed me up,the whole he's atheltic enough anyways isn't the point it shouldn't be a punishment your husband really is sick and I hope you leave and remove him from your lives.

Your allowing child abuse and if social services ever find out you'll et done for allowing child endangerment

Please seek help before it's too late before your children end up living with a mental illness or become like him.

Wish you luck and prayers even if he does say things for punishment put your foot down please don't sllow your children to suffer your his mum and should protect them.

Hon ----

All of us here know that,

"It's never just that easy."


My mother abused everyone
in our family. One of the
family members my mother
abused was my father.

My father did not protect
his children because. . . .
he was abused as a child
and didn't have any counseling
and didn't have any resources
to do anything differently.

Again and again my father
would say to me:

You're mother's a
WONDERFUL woman.


Maybe. But the result
of her abusive parenting
and my abused father's
inability to do anything
differently, is that both
my sibling and I were
both extremely damaged.

My sibling never recovered
from that abuse. I've gotten
done a fair amount of healing,
but to this very day, I'm still
working on recovering from
a childhood lived under
the roof of abuse.

No. Leaving an abuser
may be among the
roughest challenges
we ever encounter.

As hard as that is,
the challenges of
recovering from a
childhood lived under
the roof of abuse
may be even harder.
It takes at LEAST
a LIFETIME.

Please take good care
of yourself and your
children.

Sending you hugs
and wishes for
strength and
serenity.

It's not easy to leave, no.

But I'd argue that it's a lot more difficult to live with the guilt the rest of your life that you contributed to the abuse of your children.

Oh, justa, nobody is suggesting it's easy. One of the most hated lines when talking about abused women is "why didn't she just leave?" Because it's NOT easy. There's no "just" about it, like it's as simple as heading down the road to buy a loaf of bread.

It's HARD. Really hard. You will need all the strength you can muster and all the support you can find. And while we may seem harsh on this thread, you have our support. We know it's hard, we know it's terrifying. I myself stayed too long because of the same sorts of thoughts - fear of the unknown, fear of being unable to take care of my infant son alone, fear of his reaction, fear that I was going to do more damage to my son by having him grow up in a "broken" home, fear of being considered a failure because I couldn't hold my marriage together, a thousand different fears.

One night, I stood and looked over my sleeping baby and thought about what I wanted for him, who I wanted him to be as he grows up. And I realised that I can't expect him to respect me, or women in general, while I don't have enough respect for myself to walk away. That was the beginning of the process. It took another 6 months to finally take real steps to get out. But that was the beginning. I left for the sake of my son. I stayed gone for my own sake. It wasn't easy at all. But what I discovered when I left was that the unknown turned out to be way less scary than what I had been living, the loneliness I was afraid of was WAY less than the loneliness of being in an abusive marriage, raising my son was actually a whole lot easier without him undermining and contradicting me and without having to constantly second guess and make sure the baby's needs weren't in any way going to put HIM out. And so on. The fears turned out to be nothing but ghosts, manufactured by my own fear of inadequacy.

And that's the bottom line - you are enough. You need to believe you are enough. You don't need an abusive husband to survive. Quite the opposite. Anyone who can survive in an abusive marriage can thrive without it. You can thrive. You can do this for your children, and for yourself.

Amen, Liv!

He gets it from his dad. And yay me they are visiting {sarc}. He is an effing asshole. Far worse than my husband could ever be! While my husband is subtle and controlling. My father in law is very open with criticism. It's horrible! My daughter told my mother in law that he annoys me. I should have just been honest with the MIL and told her his negativity wears us thin!

I hate them. I am a bad bad person cause I think bad things about them.

I just wanted a normal happy life. Not this!

You're not bad they are hun.
Only problem if cycle isn't broken then your kids could be this way too.

I think punishing kids by pressups etc is cruel, it's not normal to punish a child that way of my sons are bad I will tell them or put them in a naughty corner grounding kids is normal but making them do a phsiCal exercise is Not even if your son is capable of doing them it's still controlling abusive behaviour.

Does he know his behaviour is like his dad's? Have you tried cpusbellong they say controlling people don't want to change but I believe some who turn that way do not like being like that it's just what they believed was a normal upbringing hugs and. I apologia for my first reply i should have been more understanding and have more common sense

If he ever physicay harms you or your children please seek help because, then it will definitely harm your children

You're not a bad person for thinking bad things about bad people. It's called being grounded in reality! I think he's brainwashed you into thinking that. It only becomes bad if you start DOING bad things to people. And don't confuse that with standing up for yourself.

In fact, I'd say a person's delusional if the DON'T think bad things about bad people!

Justaguest, you are placing a value judgment on your feeling of hatred that you don't need to do. Feelings provide information about a situation. They all have a purpose that way. Then, as thinking human beings we place value judgment on those feelings, "good" "bad" "right" "wrong", which is what you are doing and is creating another emotion, guilt and shame. Once we learn to understand the message our emotion is telling us, we find it's no longer necessary (hopefully) to assign it a value judgment. An emotion just is what it is, and the fact it has a purpose gives us opportunities to use it if we chose to. Then it has value in and of itself, and we no longer have to judge it.

IMHO hatred is a combination of two feelings, anger and disgust. Both are universal emotions with a specific purpose. Disgust is about an aversion to something we find revolting, which propel us away from it, and anger is a response to feeling vulnerable, hurt, or trampled on-which also gives us a surge of emotional and physical energy to empower us to deal with something we find threatening psychologically or physically. Anger compensates for feeling vulnerable, really. Instead of feeling weak, anger allows us to feel strong. Therefore you can look at hatred as a feeling which is there to help you get away from something that is so threatening and opposed to your sense of self that you find it intolerable.

You are taking the extra step of assigning a value judgment on that hatred, when all it's doing is telling you something about the situation. You decide it means instead that you are a bad person. This value judgment creates guilt, which is a emotion which imparts information also. Guilt tells you there is a disconnect between something you feel like you SHOULD feel, do or want, and what you actually feel, do,or want. But feelings are not facts-it is not mean your "should" is correct-it just tells you that you have an internal conflict that needs to be worked out.

All these emotions are okay. And as you can see, you can try to disconnect yourself from emotions, but it doesn't work. They still find their way out. If you put your emotions away from your consciousness all it does it take away your opportunity to understand what they are telling you. Emotions don't create powerlessness, they are empowering. They have inherent value.

I also suspect that part of the reason you feel so much hatred towards you in-laws, your FIL in particular, is because it's safer than feeling those feelings about your H. You can compare the subtly versus overtness of your FIL and your H's behaviors all you want, but at their core they are the same, they are about taking POWER, and CONTROL over others. And the results are the same. Anxiety, depression, lowered self worth-just to name a few. Also, your FIL's issues may help explain your H's, but they don't excuse them. Your H KNOWS what he is doing-he CHOOSES to do it, because it benefits him. He gets something out of it that makes him not want to stop.

I'm not surprised your daughter told your MIL about your feelings. Kids in an abusive situation become "protectors" of both parents, the abused one and the abuser. This happens because they are made to feel like they are responsible for other people's emotions, but discouraged from expressing their own. I would bet your daughter was trying to protect you by saying this to your MIL. She really should not be in this position. She should be seeing YOU protecting yourself, and learning how to protect herself too.

Please give yourself a break for ALL your emotions. They are normal responses ANYONE would have! It does not make you a bad person, just a person in a bad situation. This is the first post I felt like you've been honestly angry, and you should be! I feel for you right now, because once you start examining your situation honestly, and start seeing certain things, it connects to things to feelings you'd stuffed away, and they start really coming to the surface. And then you can't "unsee" and "Unknow" anymore. It's a tough situation to be in.

It's not so much I feel like a bad person for hating them... As much as I think I'm a bad person because when I see FIL or H manipulating me or especially the kids...I think "alright it's on. I'll just manipulate you right back. Take what I can from you. I'll play the game, and I'll make sure I win. And I will laugh when I destroy the lovely mirage of a Christian family we've all got going on when I finally divorce." I want to find pleasure in the fact it will completely destroy them to have their oldest perfect Christian son divorced. See. That is evil. :-)

And I know we are severely dysfunctional. I wonder if I'm the narc and I'm refusing to admit it? How do I know I'm not the bad guy here?

Ok. Ok. I'm not... If people really knew what goes on.... But maybe it's my fault... Alienation of affection. Husband is just doing what he has to get affection from me.

I do sound crazy, and I'm other thinking every thing right now. It's so much easier just pretending we're normal. But the thought of being away from this sounds so good but then the steps to get there are so scary! I'm so jealous of the women I know who are divorced. I want to ask them how they did it.
(I'm rambling)

Lovemyperfectfamily... Not sure but I think you asked if we've tried couples counseling. We have. It was even pointed out that he's like his dad. He doesn't agree because his dad yells and is very openly demeaning. My husband is subtle and "calm". I can see the ticks-things he does-when I push to far.

You're not evil, you're doing what you have to do to survive. I thought I was evil also, when I was in the situation, because of the things I did to survive. But I have realised that the difference between me and him is that those things are not who I am. Once I stopped having to fight for survival (ie, once I got out of the marriage), I also stopped manipulating, lying and all the other behaviours I didn't like about myself.

The other difference between you and them is that you question yourself and you feel bad for the behaviours you don't like. You don't blame someone else for them, or justify them. That's good - but you need to get away from the environment in which you feel the need for them. As cant said, your anger right now is helping you - helping keep you strong, helping you see the dysfunction. Your wish to see them destroyed is the counter to all the hopes and dreams of a happy marriage and family that have kept you there for so long. Once you can let go of the hopes and dreams, you will also find the desire to destroy fades away. The key is focus on you, your children and your lives ... let them live theirs as they choose. But please, please break that cycle. Don't let your children grow up to follow in the patterns.

"But maybe it's my fault... Alienation of affection. Husband is just doing what he has to get affection from me." Really? Do you really think that his abuse is to get affection? Don't you think that, had he treated you with love and respect all along, there would have been no "alienation of affection"? You loved him, right? You had great affection for him once. And he crushed it. And now you want to blame yourself for not feeling it any more? You cannot force someone to like or love you, if you no longer love him or no longer feel affection for him, he cannot possibly get those feelings to change by force. The only way would be to win them back - but he's not even trying to win them back so no, he's not in any way even trying to get affection from you. What he's trying to do is control you. It's not about love or affection, it's about power and control. And it's NOT your fault. He broke it, that's not your fault either. What he's doing is like throwing a plate on the floor, then shouting at it to fix itself, telling it it's weak and stupid for having broken.

I'd like to give my perspective on a couple of things you've said and see if it's helpful to you at all.

"I think I'm a bad person because when I see FIL or H manipulating me or especially the kidsalright it's on. I'll just manipulate you right back. Take what I can from you. I'll play the game, and I'll make sure I win. And I will laugh when I destroy the lovely mirage of a Christian family we've all got going on when I finally divorce." I want to find pleasure in the fact it will completely destroy them to have their oldest perfect Christian son divorced. See. That is evil. :-)"

That is not evil. It's ANGER. I think you've stuffed the FEELING of anger so long it's unrecognizable. There is a vengeful aspect to anger very often, because again, anger is about taking our power back, and it makes us feel powerful to think about someone suffering the way they've made us suffer. Not evil, just plain old, run of the mill anger that everyone experiences in one way or another in one strength or another.

Secondly, that "playing the game" you're talking about is the exact dynamic Narcissistic abuse creates. We HAVE to play the game, because it's the only way to get ANYTHING at all out of the relationship. That is the dynamic we react to that the Narcissist sets up. IMHO we are not responsible for playing according to the Narc's rules (because there is no other way to play), but instead whether or not we choose to continue to play the game.

As far as guilt, it was one of those emotions I was SOOO out of touch with. I used to think I didn't do guilt. Then I looked at my behavior-especially over compensation, and saw I BEHAVED like a guilty person-I just wasn't connected to that feeling that was running in the background anymore. Maybe you don't do guilt,but may be you are like me and just shut off from it.........

You said

"And I know we are severely dysfunctional. I wonder if I'm the narc and I'm refusing to admit it? How do I know I'm not the bad guy here......Ok. Ok. I'm not... If people really knew what goes on.... But maybe it's my fault... Alienation of affection. Husband is just doing what he has to get affection from me.

This confusion, the guilt (yes guilt-like it's your fault), the feeling like you are crazy-is typical of an abused person-NOT the abuser-NOT the person who is at fault for this dynamic. Do you get any sense that your husband wrestles with these feelings? Or as long as he gets what he wants that he can sleep at night no problem? Do you ever get the sense that all the good things he does are ultimately self serving? Affection??? What affection is your husband after? Are you confusing affection for control, because to your husband acts of "love" are acts of compliance, while for YOU acts of love are affection-they are NOT the same thing. Even sex to him is not about affection but control. Sex is HIS way on HIS terms-that is not affection either.

This confusion is unfortunately not going to clear for long until you are out of this situation. Then the clarity you have about all of this will amaze you to the point you are in disbelief that you ever questioned that you were in an abusive relationship. That is the way is was for almost every single one of us. I still go through that feeling myself from time to time.

You ask how those divorced woman you are jealous of did it-it started with a decision, because a decision by definition cuts off all other options. That is the first step, deciding with certainty-then the steps all become more clear because so much superfluous information gets cleared out of your consciousness.