Hello all

Today has been a very confusing day.

My wife came to see the children and wanted to discuss something with me, Her seeing the kids is not a problem its just that until we know what is happening with the police and the OM her visitation is only in our family home, which is harder for me than I thought it would be,

When she came in, she gave the kids a hug and a kiss and asked them to wait in the living room while we had the discussion she wanted and then she broke down in the garden and could not even stand, im standing at the sink in the kitchen washing up watching her melt down and I started to feel sorry for her so I went out and picked her up and put her in a chair( I have never seen her like this in the 15 years we have been together) I tell her to look me in the eyes and listen...
me - I know your hurting as you feel you have lost everything. I promise with every beat of my heart I will never stop you seeing the kids and when you have a place that isn't someones sofa you can have joint custody, but you need to pull yourself together when your here with them they don't need to see you like this! I know its hard I do it on a daily basis.

cs - I feel like im being replaced (her niece that received pics and threats from OM has been sleeping on the sofa because she wanted to be there for me and the kids and after the threats didn't feel safe home alone in her flat) she has taken my place getting the kids ready for bed, reading them bedtime stories making them lunch/dinner doing the house work and being there for you!

me - what are you on about nobody is replacing you, she hasn't been doing all them things I have! she has been here for me listening to me vent, rant and keeping the kids away from my bedroom while im on the phone to people who are checking in on me plus here she has support too. she looks at us as if we are her parents sometimes, because we are always here for her when she has problems and her parents are not(long story)

cs - she needs to go home to leave you and the kids alone so you know what its going to be like if we do divorce, so you can miss me because with her here you wont. I am jealous of her she has her feet under the table she has you and the kids and my home I have nothing.

I know its soo wrong but I almost laughed at this because her niece has always spent a lot of time at our home and sometimes did feel as though she lived with us. when my wife worked evenings I would come home from work and she would be going to work( at least 3 nights a week). Her niece would often watch the kids while I drove my wife to work and when I got home I would cook dinner for me her and the kids. After the kids would go to bed she would stay and use our internet to contact her friends or whatever on her phone while I played xbox or watched tv we got to be close friends and and would often end up playing xbox with me or we would watch some tv shows on Netflix together. She would talk to me about boys she is dating or boys she liked and would often confide in me more than she would my wife.

I understand from the outside looking in it probably doesn't look good that my wife has moved out and her 20 year old niece has been here a lot but I don't understand my wifes concerns over this as she is her family. My sister also told me to be careful having her around. I cant believe they would think I could/would try to replace my wife or get revenge by doing anything untoward with her. She has been there for me and the kids through all of this and is just as upset that it looks like the marriage is ending.

Am I being nave?

Anyway after my cs had calmed down and stopped crying I said if you have concerns speak to her when she finishes work.

My cs went of to play games and enjoy time with the kids so I carried on with my housework out of the way of them so they could have some mummy time. I had a mountain of washing to put away and I do mean mountain, I've been washing and drying all the clothes but just piling them up in my bedroom all week, I haven't wanted to sort them because it may sound silly but I have been having a problem wanting to sort through them because my wifes underwear is in the piles and its ones which she has visited the OM in (as ive seen in the pics he sent me) and that brings back the burnt to the brain images but it had to be sorted as we were all running low on clean stuff to wear. While doing this my wife came in to see me and just started helping me sort into piles and we were talking as we used to I even found myself calling her babe and hun at points(which I wanted to slap my self around the face for). We even found ourselves laughing together and with the kids, it felt like a normal Saturday afternoon.
My cs has deleted some social media accounts and got a new phone number and new private facebook account which she has told me she will only be adding friends that she knows and sees on a regular basis. she is showing remorse for her actions and she says she is going to see a councillor to fix her so she is not so closed off emotionally and can learn to express her feelings and talk about stuff rather than lock it away inside.

Yesterday I was adamant I wanted a divorce now im confused as to what I want.

My cs said she felt like she has hit rock bottom over the last 2 days which my reply was there is only 1 way to go from there then. I cant help thinking im being too nice to her after what she done. I feel like I should be punishing her. I still don't trust her that nobody else knew about the affair apart from the two of them. Is it possible that she could keep a secret like that without telling any of her friends for that long?

Angry, firstly I just want to say sorry you are going through this. There's a lot to take in and I want to make sure I say the right thing that is helpful.
First of all you need to do what's best for YOU!!! I know you're hurting and people are trying to counsel you, but it has to be you that decides not what you think others think you should do.
I know she's hurt you very much and its all still raw, you say about the lies and deceit but you must understand they are part and parcel of an affair.
Do you really need to know all the details. The fact that its out in the open and she has confessed and been upfront with you should tell you something. I understand you may not think she is telling you the truth still but that maybe because all your trust for her has gone
Its good everyone on here is supportive and want to help, but you know her most, don't let people judge her. There's always 2 sides to a story.
ask yourself what happened in your marriage and has it caused this? have you always been a doting husband? you mentioned an Xbox, was that played with more than your wife? i'm not shifting blame I just want you to see and understand the bigger picture before you rush any decisions like divorce. Divorce is a big thing, not something to be taken light-hearted. can I suggest you wait a few weeks? let it calm and then really think hard about it. divorce is so final.
looks like you've made this decision because of a few photos being sent. yes its spiteful for OM to do this and seeing the affair in front of your eyes isn't nice and makes it more real.
you say the police are involved?
I understand your CS concerns about the niece!!! what is she playing at?? From a woman's point of view I would feel exactly the same. Yes your CS has done wrong and I believe she is paying for that, not living at home and not seeing her children as much as she likes but when one of her own family members is practically living at your house being with her husband and children all the time, she will get jealous and feel replaced. you may think its absurd but you need to look from the outside. you need your own time to grieve and spend time with your children. That way you will know if you miss your CS enough to want to make it work or if you can do it on your own

I hope I have helped and sorry if I have said anything out of turn or to upset you xx
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my perspective is that of a fellow betrayed spouse, one who DID try to reconcile, only to have that go south. So I'll say these things:

First, yes, divorce is a huge choice, but so is cheating. I guess I will never understand the perspective that divorce is more horrible than cheating. The one who cheats breaks the vows in the first place, therefore nullifying them. Yes, its is the right option for some to reconcile, under certain circumstances. But it's not right for all. And to me it sounds like your CS is still approaching this from a VERY selfish stand point.

She is jealous of her niece? why? because SHE herself is a cheater. That's why. Therefore, she's thinking about what she would do (and has done) if given the option to step out with someone. So she doesn't see it as something innocent, because she's looking at it through the lens of a person who is guilty of being a cheater.

And yes, all of her statements/arguements to me just sound like she's throwng herself a pity party, and even sort of threatening you with the "you'll miss me when I'm gone." She walked outside of your marriage. Not you. She's trying to guilt you into staying and play on your emotions, drum up sympathy for herself, etc. This is not the proper attitude for a cheater to be exhibiting if they truly are remorseful and want to rebuild.

She should be all about showing you that she's committed to helping you through what she's inflicted on your marriage. Not whining to you that she's being treated unfairly and that she's missing out: She went outside the marriage, that has consequences. Not that you need to "punish her" as you said, but I would just be cautious: she's not approaching you from a standpoint of "I will do whatever it takes to fix the character flaw in me that allowed me to cheat on you, lie repeatedly to your face about it, etc. And I will do whatever you need me to do to rebuild trust." No, it's all about her and her feelings. That's what allows people to cheat in the first place, the entitlement.

Were you a 100% perfect husband? I dont even know you and I can say for certain, "no, you were not." because NO ONE is. That does not justify cheating. She took it to a whole other level. You can do whatever you want, of course, and only you can know what it is you want. But as someone who's spouse wanted to "reconcile" just because he felt alone and like he was missing out, I can tell you, it didn't work, because he was unable and unwilling to see that his entitled and lying character put a huge wedge between us. that only could have been fixed by him truly changing. Same for her. Until she owns the fact that she brought this on herself, and is willing to do the hard work, it's not going to be successful in the long run.

If my brother were coming to my house, helping with my kids, spending time with my wife...maybe it would start to bother me. What would I do about that? Well, going out and finding a girlfriend sure wouldn't solve the problem, as I'm sure your wife is starting to realize. She can have her "reasons" for cheating, but until she realizes they aren't legitimate, moving forward in your marriage will be difficult, at best. If she's saying that this hasn't been a problem until now (after the cheating) and telling you you need to be alone to miss her (trying to scare you out of divorce), you may want to remind her that this arrangement was brought on by her and her insane beau. She feels replaced because her sister was threatened and thought it would be safer helping a family member in need? Has she thought about how you felt when she decided to take up with her gutter rat? Yes, understandably, you are confused. She's probably confused that you are ready to divorce (she still hasn't grasped the gravity of her actions). This isn't a decision that has to have a timeframe. Talk to a lawyer. I'm not saying get divorced, but learn your rights. The overzealous crazy that sent you pictures did something I think works in your favor. You can lock away this evidence forever, and pray that you never have to use it. I would think that a judge would understand if you tried to rebuild your marriage, but five years down the road felt you still couldn't trust her, thus filed on the grounds of infidelity. I've heard it said more than once, whether you reconcile or divorce, cheating ends what you had. Your marriage either ends, or starts new. But, she doesn't make the rules or dictate your choices, any more than she followed the rules of marriage or included you in her choice to cheat. Listen to your wife, but until her actions match up with her words, she no longer has any say in your decisions. Just as much as she'd like to say, "let's reconcile" and think it can all go under the rug, don't think, "let's divorce" and think the pain will just go away. I hate to say it, but your brain and your heart will disagree for a long time. Hang in there.

Hi kittykat,

throughout my relationship with my cs she has given me reasons to be jealous not constantly but at least every few years she would put us in a situation where I would question her fidelity but never had/found hard evidence just a text or facebook message that didn't seem quite right or was overly flirty from them or her.

To answer your questions...

Have I always been a doting husband?
Probably not im definatly not husband of the century but I would often surprise her with flowers, her favourite chocolates and little romantic things like this for no other reason than I love her and wanted to show it. Most of her friends used to say I wish my husband/boyfriend would do that. I would come up behind her whilst she was making lunch dinner or smoking at the back door just to hug/squeeze her and whisper in her ear I truly love you with all my heart. I would tell her daily that she was the most beautiful and sexy woman on the planet to me. I would try to make our sex life a bit more spontaneous/ exciting for example. read a few pages of whatever romance novel she was reading at the time and do the things she was reading about. I have always been into our sex life more than her, to me a healthy sex life is very important in a marriage/relationship because it shows you still want/lust for that person even if they have or think they have imperfections with there body. but she would reject me or make it feel that I had to convince her to do it. This wasn't all the time but what felt like most of my advances were rejected.

Xbox...

I have always been a gamer for most of my life and I would always say if im playing it too much tell me and I will turn it off or not even put it on at all to which she would reply ok I will after the kids would go to bed I would always ask what she would like to do for the evening, most of the time she would tell me you go on your xbox because im going to read or watch reality tv or soaps (which she knows I hate with a passion) or her friends would be there and they would hang out in the kitchen bitching about people they work with/know.

Missing cs...

I do miss her being here she has been a constant in my life for 15 years and there is constant reminders around the house ive not took any pictures down she still has all of her stuff here. I could be wrong but I don't think I would want to get back together just because I miss her, in my opinion that's not a valid reason to risk my heart again. I don't want to take her back because im lonely.

ps you didn't say anything out of turn or upset me.

My cs thinks im letting others lead me down paths away from her but I don't think they are, people are supporting my decisions. I have always been a laid back kind of person and normally go with the flow as to not rock the boat but through this im am realising im 100% stronger than I thought I was. I do have a habit of over thinking things and second guessing my decisions but I put that down to sometimes having low self esteem. if im good at something I gain confidence quickly but also lose confidence in myself quickly when things go pear shaped by thinking would it of turned out differently if I had done this or that and that is in all aspects of my life not just my marriage.

With your previous suspicions of her being unfaithful, you could absolutely be correct, but even without that she has created a terrible situation with this OM. This is the result of bringing another person into your marriage and she has to deal with the consequences.

It really isn't about punishment, but about knowing once you behave inappropriately it won't go down well. Your wife have opportunities to end this when you initially saw the email contents, but she decided to deceive you further and make out you were overreacting. She made the decision in full possession of her faculties to cheat on you and now she's feeling sorry for herself.

Her niece has been close to both of you and the OM threatened her, instead of your wife to take ownership and be profusely apologising to her niece (perhaps she has), she's wanting you to feel how it would be without her. There's far too much selfishness in her at the moment. You can decide to forgive her, without reconciling with her.

If it was one if my nieces and I had cheated, I wouldn't be worried about anything going on. I'd be grateful thst after I'd made such a mess, that one of my family members was there for my kids. It doesn't matter if your wife is the best housewife on earth, but trying to make you feel her absence is ludicrous and shows she has the ME, ME ME mindset.

I think saying you were sent a few pictures, as a previous poster said is totally minimising it. These were naked/sex pictures of your wife with another man. She hasn't confessed anything you didn't know, or until faced with undeniable evidence. That's not a confession at all. It's a case if hands up I'm busted.

The mind movies will keep playing in your head and you essentially experience a trauma. The pain of betrayal is traumatic and the marriage you once had is never the same again. This wasn't a short affair or a ONS, it was two years of lies and deceit. Who knows how much longer it would have continued if she wasn't caught.

You can still love her, but the torment of the hurt is huge and there's . bound to be so much more your wife hasn't told you. As long as your children have two parents that love them, that's the most important thing.

There are BHs (betrayed husbands) , who 20 years after infidelity say they wish they'd left earlier, because they still think about the affair every day, but they feel they can't start over. You're still young enough to find happiness.

You can set yourself a 6-12 months time to be separated and then decide. However, making a decision without all the facts is like driving blind.

BTW - Why did the OM threaten her niece ? How did he threaten her? How does he know her niece?

Your wife felt extremely close to this man and told him an awful lot if things, something tells me you don't know the half of it.

Do try and get some fresh air and keep yourself hydrated.

Hi Moniren

He sent her (along with god knows how many other people from my friends list) a friends request on facebook from the account he created of him and my cs and sent her a message saying he needed to talk to her and then proceeded to taunt her call her names threatened to stab her if he ever sees her and then came on to her 10 min later. He knew things from her past that my cs must of told him about her.

Fresh air and hydration are all sorted dog walks and ive never drank so much fruit juice, coffee and water. TBH I would love to have a beer but not sure if id stop so that's a no go area.

I don't think I will ever get all the facts to piece the puzzle together its like my brain is playing catch phrase (uk tv show) they have removed a few squares but im guessing at the picture behind the rest.

I have spoken to my cs today about her niece and she has admitted she was jealous of the fact that she was here supporting us and the cs cant be and that she had people in her ear telling her to be worried that we would sleep together to get some kind of revenge.
I told her that enough lies have been going around to last a life time and to stop listening to idiots because she has been told by others that I have not slept in our bed since I told her to leave which is just stupid as the kids need to know where I am if they need me in the night. Its just people getting involved that know nothing of what we are all going through but feel they have to chip in with bs. My cs now realises that her niece has been a rock to us at the moment even though she is feeling the pain also. Its as if people think lies made the mess lets use lies to clean it up. Some times I just don't understand people.

What do they hope to achieve by lying to either of us or just making stuff up?

As per usual lately im baffled and confused by the human race!

Thanks again for taking the time out to read and reply to the madness im living in. "HUGS" to you.

Glad I didn't upset you.

Firstly, how have you been today? Hopefully it's getting better for you and the healing process is easier day by day.

I think you misunderstood something.... I wasn't saying you should take her back just because you missed her, 15 years is a long time do you want to throw that away?
I believe she is being selfish but she is also grieving her loss. Yes it's her own doing but it must hurt.

I'm still getting over my cs. It's been 6 months now. We had been together 8 years when he cheated on me. I've been through all the motions you are going through now. Wanting a divorce, threw him out etc.
I have come to terms with it and we are trying. I have always had trust issues and self esteem problems which made me insecure. I've had reasons to believe he's cheated on me before this but was never proven.
When I found out I always thought I wanted to know every detail, always thought there was more but thinking that way made me bitter and caused a lot of hatred. I realised that I don't need to know, the affair happened and that's enough. I realised I was partly to blame for not paying enough attention to him, never appreciated the little things he did just took it for granted.
We have been going to couples therapy and it has helped. Maybe you two could try? See if it would help before going for a divorce?
We have been going on dates and having us time once a fortnight, when we feel down or something not working we sit down and talk so it's not bottled up. I sometimes write it down at the time so it's not in my head all day festering until I see him. In finding it is helping.
I thought people would judge me for taking him back but it's no one else's troubles but yours and your wife.
Maybe you need some time out. I went away for the weekend. Just away from the situation and all the constant reminders. Enjoy a few days with your kids and make it all about them. Or you just go on your own. You will know what's best for you.
I've been advised to talk to people going through the same things as myself. I joined DS recently but I haven't actually been able to write my own post! Don't know where to begin. I obviously have bad days and want to rant. But now there's more good days than bad. Time is a healer and I am sure you will make the right decision for yourself.
Take care xx

Kittykat, sorry, panda...had to respond to kitty, and hope you both can take something from it. This is a pet peeve of mine...you said, "I realised I was partly to blame for not paying enough attention to him, never appreciated the little things he did just took it for granted." I hope you don't mean you are helping him justify his affair because you weren't perfect. Was he perfect? Probably not. If/when he displayed these imperfections and hurt you, did you decide you deserved to go outside your marriage? Probably not. I wholeheartedly agree that both parties need to own and fix problems leading up to the affair (again, BOTH parties)...but allowing the CS to use your imperfections as justification for cheating is dead wrong. "He left the toilet seat up for the umpteenth time so i cheated." "She always went to bed early and didn't want to have sex when I wanted, so I cheated." If the imperfections were bad enough to disrupt the marriage, the spouse can address the problem, or realize the problem is too much for them and end the marriage. Cheating doesn't address the problem, and it kills a marriage, unmercifully. Sorry, Panda, had to vent.

No worries lookingforclosure that's what were all here for isn't it to vent and express feelings and opinions that will help us all deal with the shit hand we have been delt.

It is a lot easier said than done I personally think if you can put some of the blame on yourself it will make it easier to forgive the cs.

One thing im still struggling with is do cheaters deserve the forgiveness?

Does my cs deserve my love and affection?

I believe some people love with 100% of there hearts and some just cant. Its as if we are not so different from animals dogs are loving and loyal to the end so long as you are loving and loyal to them. Where as cats are loving to the end but the loyalty lays with who has the food!

sorry my grammer is shocking!

I know its a bit off topic but I need to vent ..............

I have just had a phone call that my auntie who has always been a second mum to me is dying of cancer its in her lung-next to her lung-lint nodes-spleen-vertebrae.......WTF

I am in pieces!

WOW how cruel this world can be

I'm not saying I'm trying to justify his actions but you're right in what you're saying, both parties need to own it. I didn't see this and played the blame game. Once I'd accepted things weren't right I understood. This isn't the same for everyone. Just wanted to share my experience.
Try couples therapy, it helped us and what do you have to lose?
I know your emotions are all over the place but it will get better. I can promise you that.