Built - lol

First - of course everything depends on a therapist and of course mine is an idealistic assumption that the therapist you will find will be a good one and a good fit for you, but just like with everything else in life - you need to look for it, work for it, the first person you meet is not going to necessarily become your best friend, the first woman you will fall in love with is not necessarily going to become your wife, you choose your family physician carefully, you do the research before you buy a new car.
Same with therapist. You have to look for it and then change him/her if needed. It is trial and error sometimes.

Why do you dislike the idea of therapy so much?

Did you have a bad experience with somebody or is it just because?
I understand there are many bad therapists out there (personally met many) but this does not disqualifies the value of therapy or even better - psychoanalysis. Psychoanalysis I especially find priceless because it allows you to understand why you do what you do. Why you are who you are. Once you understand the mechanism you can influence it.
I will also take any 12 steps program. Most of the people I know could benefit from one of the many available. But when you are ready for 12 steps you already have an active issue.


Second - I am not saying go to therapy because someone wants to marry you, though I do believe in a lot of education because marriage is a lot of hard work and many people who enter it don't realize it having grown up listening to "and live happily ever after" bull s..... so they marry their prince or the princess and boom - it's an Ogre! Not that there is anything wrong with an Ogre but many people run/cheat then because they are not prepared, because bwaah they wanted a prince/princes!

Third - hardly anybody has no issues (I am politely not saying that everybody has issues). The earlier they are addressed, the higher the chance for successful relationships and life in the future.

If people faced their demons before they take over their lives - there would be way less addictions (affairs included) and broken lives.

Agree blindsided.

The Low Self-Esteem Wife
The Emotionally Neglected Wife
The Angry Wife
The Wife Who Seeks Excitement
The Sexually Deprived Wife
The Need to Feel Attractive Wife

All Psychological explanations. All good. Yes, she wanted it, of course! He didn't hold a gun to her head afterall.

But I am going deeper into the "it" that she wanted using neuroscience. All of the above show that yes, the WS wanted Dopamine (happy chemical) kicks and is displayed by common a theme:
-- obsessive and addictive behaviors fueled by insatiable dopamine cravings.
-- inability/unwillingness to acknowledge and curtail addictive behaviors.
-- say, believe, and do almost anything to avoid dopamine withdrawal.
-- lack of concern for the consequences of their addictive behaviors to themselves, their family, even their children.

Every Affair can be traced to happy chemicals. And every Affair is accompanied by the same symptoms: self-deceptions, denial of reality, and an overpowering dopamine-induced ignorance that make it possible to overlook the obvious, rationalize the irrational, and deny the undeniable.

My goal is not to justify the WS behavior. ".if we do this, then we get to observe our sweet woman as victims of Predators and Chemicals. " OH GOD NO!!!

Anatomy of the Affair...just like studying human anatomy, it can help derive a cure or at least future inoculation against Infidelity or other (lighter) forms of spousal betrayal in a Marriage.

"Two things are infinite: the Universe and Human Stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein

IDK how much dopamine rushes when the AP says hello the first time.....but I venture to guess not too much.
That's when the affair starts, and when the wayward spouse gives signals.
The affair begins prior to the chemical release you are citing.

We already have an inoculation...it's called castration.
Short of that ...... we all have to use common sense.

Castration!! LOL!!

What is the female equivalent? Oophorectomy? :-)

Actually that may prevent a sexual affair for men, but shy of a Chastity Belt I can't think of any option for Females! :-)

Even so, this still won't prevent an Emotional Affair.

DAMN YOU DOPAMINE!!!! :-)

There is no 'ectomy' to eliminate the real human need for touch, intimacy and connection. Sometimes those needs can be met by more platonic relationship but , whatever the source, the very real need remains.

Did I want the attention I got from OM before the affair? Absolutely. I craved it. Not just psychological need, a real physical need that must be met for mental/emotional health. Look at what happens to babies
without sufficient loving touch and connection. It's notbjust selfish wanting, notjing is evef enough. It is real.

i think everyone is making great points here and we all equally bring 'life experiences' to the table - no one is 100% correct on everything but we can all learn from each other.

As for the therapists - i have a friend - (whos father left his mother when he was young) for an AP and he freakin to this day hates his father for what he did to the family - will never forgive him does not talk to him, the guy (my friend) is one of the best communicators - most honest people - i have ever meet - well this smart guy when he first got married - went to a therapist with his wife to make sure that they both learned how to communicate to each other "better".

His wife brings baggage cause her father left her mother when she was young as well. Neither one of them want to be in a terrible situation and he says he is so glad he has done that.

everyone brings baggage to realtionships unless you have been locked in a cage all your life - i personally think the right therapist can help - the wrong therapist can only help you both to learn from each other.

i wish i had gone to a therpasit when i was first married because potentially my STBX might not have gone to crazy town - but I won't ever know. i just think it wouldnt hurt.

"There is no 'ectomy' to eliminate the real human need for touch, intimacy and connection. Sometimes those needs can be met by more platonic relationship but , whatever the source, the very real need remains."

Yes... but see, that's how a LOT of affairs start. NOT necessarily with flirting but with "friendship". There's a sense of just needing to talk to someone or have a "shoulder to cry on". We truly tell ourselves, "We're just friends, it's no big deal." I know *I* did with many male friends, but I now can see how if the circumstances had been tweaked even the tiniest little bit, it would have been absolutely ripe conditions for an affair.

The OW flirted with my husband, but he didn't see her flattery as flirting. He truly believed she was just "awkward" and trying to be friendly. Yet, his alarm bells didn't go off to tell him to back off from her. He had it in his head that they were JUST friends and that NOTHING more would come of it. Even when she finally blatantly came on to him physically, in his head he said he kept thinking, "This can't really be happening..."

Did he enjoy her affection and attention? Yep. Did he enjoy her flattery and admiration? Yes! We're sort of built to like those things, ya know? He just didn't have the sense to understand how dangerous it was and truly believed that he could "handle it". By the time things got out of hand, he was ass deep in it and even though he claims he had no feelings for her, he certainly had developed a sense of emotional obligation to her. He didn't want to hurt her feelings, so he "couldn't" (hahaha) break things off with her.

It definitely becomes a slippery slope and one I think a LOT of people are susceptible to if they don't understand the true nature of affairs. It's not typically some horny guy who is just out for a little tail anywhere he can get it, luring "innocent" victims into his web of lies. It's very often much more innocent to start and doesn't become shady until much further in. It often happens in such a subtle way that people don't even realize how badly they've let things get until they've destroyed everything around them.

Blind said " the next question is....WHY DID THEY WANT IT. The answer differ from case to case.

Usually it's simple attraction combined with low self esteem. People with low self esteem are hungry for compliments and want them to continue."

In my case there was attraction, yes, and low self esteem. Next question, why low self esteem? Because my H spent 12 years tearing it down through verbal and emotional abuse in order to maintain control so that he could feel safe.

"they are currently miffed about their relationship and did not effectively communicate it. They carry an empty sadness as a result of this loss of power. They are more inclined to be easily validated." I was beyond miffed about our M, I was desperate and I had communicated that very effectively to him, even in front of a witness (counsellor) to be sure that I had been clear. Loss of power? Hmmm....not so much lost as stolen from me. He needed to have all the power in our M so that he could feel safe, so he took it. For a little while, during the A, I took some power back. Now, because it is up to me to demonstrate my remorse, he has all the power once again. He continues to use it for his self protection and at a great cost to our M.

Allora, in reading your response I realize that when I write on my phone (with the teeny buttons and the damned auto correct!!!) I am cheap with my words and may not get my point across.

I meant that sometimes those needs can be met through truly innocent exchanges, ie. hugs from kids, a therapeutic massage, having one's hair brushed or braided....those kinds of nurturing touch. But it's not the same, and my kids are too big to be hugged and cuddled all day...they start to worry about what's wrong! And I feel that it is inappropriate to try to get my need for touch met through my kids. It's fine when it's mutual, they need hugs too, but it's not supposed to be up to them to nurture me, it's the other way around. It would be great if I could afford massage therapy every week, though it's less relaxing than one might hope when I end up in tears on the table from having been finally attended to.

I've been married for 15 years. I'm supposed to get these needs, among others, met in my marriage. We made promises to provide this for each other.

I spent 12 years asking in every way possible for the appropriate person to keep his promise and attend to these very real needs, just as I had been there to attend to his. When I had starved for so long that I felt I was dying I looked somewhere else for nourishment.

Bad choice? Yes. My choice? Absolutely. Whose choice was it to starve me out to the point of being susceptible to an affair?

I also thought "this can't be happening". Not because I couldn't see it, I did, but because my husband had so convinced me that I wasn't worth anyone's attention that I though my eyes deceived me. And having a husband who used crazy making as a form of control made it almost impossible for me to trust my own perceptions.

I was not one of the well kept, had-everything-I-needed-and-nothing-was-ever-good-enough, selfish kind of cheaters. At the time I was finding a reason to stay alive. I wish I could have seen another way.

Fiber, I get that it is up to the cs to rebuild the trust and to do a majority of the work early on. Humble behavior from my H is very helpful but eventually there is a point where both partners must do the work.

I get frustrated when I see cs who won't humble themselves and take on the heavy lifting of rebuilding but I get just as frustrated when a bs refuses to do any rebuilding yet won't end the marriage either.

It sounds like your H needs a smack upside the head for real! I know I need to do more than I may Ben"in the mood" for because it is how my H feels love.

Let me ask you something, are you looking for sexual or just any physical contact like hugging and cuddling up? Does he reject you if you try to cuddle?

Sometimes all I want is cuddle with no sex and that is very difficult for my H as cuddling for him always brings on desire for sex. So sometimes I avoid the cuddle to avoid rejecting sexual advances and then making tension or bad feelings.

Sorry if my post is all over the place but I am curious as to how your H responds when you are sexual or affectionate with him or have you just stopped trying.
Pink

Yes, pink, I've pretty much stopped trying. I don't want to have sex that is just going through the motions, I want connection. And he doesn't even want sex anymore, not if it has to have emotional strings attached. So we're at an impasse. We don't cuddle...it's the same dynamic as what you describe. I don't want to play if he's going to continue to treat me as an object, and he doesn't want to risk being emotionally involved. And before anyone jumps in and points out my A as his valid reason why, he refused emotional involvement for all the years prior to my A as well.

It's been three years and I have done everything possible to rebuild trust. Turns out I can't rebuild something that was never there in the first place. He came to this marriage with an inability to trust women and that remains the same. No, my A did nothing to improve that, but the 12 years invested prior might have made a difference if he'd been willing to engage.

It really ends up being my fault that I am where I am, being unwilling to disengage.

Allora - good insight - thanks for sharing.

I think it becomes a slippery slope and sort of helps to contribute - at least what I believe happens from the folks who have grown though this as well as my own personal opinion - when in the WS' s mind - they have resentment - whatever goals they have achieved in their life ie - getting married (check) - having kids (check) - getting a house (check) whatever the goals they have with their partner and then its just every day life - (not too exciting for them) going to work - coming home - cooking food - taking the trash out - getting the mail - paying bills. whats normally called - responsibilities....

Then these folks start to think - hey - is this it? is this all that life is about? Where's the exceitment? the passion? not much passion in paying bills and running the kids to soccer practice or going grocery shopping.

I think you have to have the - angel - devil on your shoulder - the internal compass to say - ok - if I continue this nonsense I am going to destroy everything I may or may not think is precious to me - my reputation - my family - my H or W or finical situation - the thing that gets me is really this - I know some people that when they get bored with life - the achieve "new" things - start a new hobby - new career - new advanced degrees.

People who get caught up in affairs are basically "losers" - I'm sorry to say cause they have no other goal then "the selfish" goal.

It is the dumbest thing pretty much in the world - selfish doesnt even discribe what an affair is actually.

Fiber, Have you ever tried to change things up? Change the approach and take him by surprise?

It's a shame he is so fearful of intamacy. I can see that this is a huge stumbeling block for you and I hope he can see that he needs to participate in this rebuilding.

This is a tough spot. Have you considered a retrovoulle? I've heard great things about them and your H may find the ability to open his heart.

@ pink, I've heard of it but haven't checked out.I will have a look, thank you.

@ Onyx, you really know nothing of my goals, my business, my achievements, my contributions to our family and our community. All you know is the fact of my affair and for that I get tagged a 'Loser'. Friend request? Denied.

Greetings all,
These are some very impressive posts!
Brain chemistry and the reward system of the brain is part of the story,sex is not always the reason for the affair. There is a lot of excitement in the secrecy, power In the ability to deceive, there are so many rewards to cheating I doubt the CS ever thinks while he is porking the OP "omg I am going to lose my house, and my integrity". They are in the moment,and guilty afterwards. This guilt pushes the CS to look for someone to blame, usually the BS.

This brings me to my situation. My CS went to the OW and has sponged off of her for 4 years now. He has been a deadbeat dad, a gigilo, and liar. He makes my life as difficult as he can by filing frivolous suits that have held up our divorce. Yet, this stupid girl still is with him.


The "fog" should have lifted by now! The brain chemicals lessened. My children want nothing to do with the OW, and family functions exclude her,although he threatened the kids with disowning them.

I do not want him back...ever...but I wonder why I want them to break up!