I like that you no longer have to defend yourself. I dislike that as well. i dislike knowing that if I speak up for myself it will turn around to be about "poor her" and my feelings wont be validated. On the other hand she will badger me till her feelings are validated. I am sooooo looking forward to when her and I talk so that I can just get that part over with.

Even though I know who my mother is now - it is still very difficult letting go of the mother and family I continually dreamed that I had. I do miss them, but feel relieved to be allowed to be me without second guessing everything I do.

I ended up moving 30 miles away. It was the best decision I've ever made. I don't miss the put downs and when I really think about it, this situation started the day my father died. I really think he was the authority figure that kept my mother and sister in line.
Now... I've surrounded myself with really good friends... they are the family that I choose.....

Yes, the hard part is letting go of the family I've dreamed of having. I am learning to turn to friends, but it is not the same as the dreams I had. I grew up the youngest of four and I always thought someday they'de be proud of my and we would finally be friends or equals. I looked up to them and believed what they said about me for so long. Now I understand they said those things to make themselves feel better, not because they were true.

Now that I understand what my whole life, all 47 years have been about, I grieve for the lost time, all those years when I could have believed in myself and worked miracles. We will never be friends becuase they will never change. I will always have to be the looser, the idiot, the mean one in their eyes.

Wow, this is more prevalent than we think. This post has been coming back off and on since June. It just goes to show how many ppl have difficult, unattached, cruel, cold mothers. It must be an epidemic.

I also want to add Wintersage, were you a goldenchild? Because your saying that a goldenchild can be just as damaged as the scapegoat, really is hard for me to fathom.

My mother is older now and my sister the "goldenchild" seems worse than ever. She almost thinks she is god. All the attention, spoiling and caring she got from my mother, has made her into a monster, if you ask me. It was like a ego stepping stone for her. If she has any remorse about ruining our relationship, I would not know it. It's like she had that position in the family and now she has to be really mean, selfish, devious and underhanded to keep it.

And I cannot believe she didn't know what was going on. Her and my mother benefited off each other. It really is a sickness.

Joely35: Epidemic is possible. Someone posed the question about Npersonality being either learned or inherited. I have been doing alot of reading and there are arguments for both sides. In my family it is both my mother and her mother, I am not sure about my Great-Grandmother. I am not an N but I have learned traits from both of them that I have gone to counseling for. I feel that since I am willing to see my own faults and be proactive about them that I am not narccissitic. So I wonder if it is from a particular generation. My dh had a NGrandmother as well, he is not but his mother does display some traits although again she is willing to admit when she is wrong. So then again I question that particular generation.

I know I've been doing a lot of reading since I found this discussion myself and yes, the reports are sometimes conflicting and confusing. My mother's mother (my grandma), my mother and my sister all display/ed NPD, so in this case, it didn't skip a generation. I'm in agreement with you, while I haven't gone into counseling, I do see and admit to my own faults and do not turn the blame back on to anyone else. Unlike my mother and sister, oh yea, they'll say, I did this.. but you ___________.... well, I'm sure you can fill in the blank... I'm thinking that you were also the scapegoat?????

The goldenchild can wind up being as damaged as anyone else as a result of a narcissistic mother. I'm sure at least one of my siblings believes I was a golden child. At least that's what she's expressed to me several times. I was the youngest and according to her got all the attention and had it so much easier than her.

The flip side of that is that I was sexually and emotionally abused by my mother. I became her accomplice her surrogate her freaking teddy bear when the world wasn't treating her nicely enough. What little child knows any better? What little child knows it's not okay for Mommy to tell her how terrible her father is and how no one understands her. The narcissistic parent damages all the children in the family, even the golden ones, in one way or another.

Sisu: My mom told me she didn't leave her (now ex) husband after she knew that he had molested me because "I wouldn't have extra money for you to do things." Even though I had to purchase most of my school clothes and prom dresses. So instead of her acknowleding what had happed she turned it around on me. UGH! Of course she did divorce him after he was arrested for exposing himself in a book store. go figure!

VioletsBlues: It is terrible how an Nparent can really drag you into their personal hell all in the name of "love."

I believe it may be an epidemic (narcicism) that is. It has a label today, where years ago you were just difficult. There seem to be more and more ppl with these narcisistic traits.

I think narcicism runs on both sides of my family. My mother's mother was not, but my mother is. My sister is too. And on my father's side, his brother my uncle definitely is. So, maybe that's why my sister is so rotten, she has it from both sides. I know I am not, because I do have empathy for ppl and I do admit when I am wrong, and I do apologize when I have to. My sister won't ever admit she's wrong, has no empathy, goes out of her way to ruin ppls reputations with her lies, and laughs about it. It is horrible.

I don't know if Narcicism is inherited or just something you learn from how you are treated and how you accept it when you are a small child. Those formative years and you don't get what you need and you have a vulnerabilty in your gene pool, make you into that type of personality. You were not given something emotionall when you were young, and it results in narcicism.

Joely35: I think your point about not getting something when you were younger hits the target. If you don't learn empathy, self restraint, self love or respect when you are younger then it seems as you mature you can either learn these things or do posess Nqualities that then repeat themselves. I know in my teens and early 20's I was alot like my Nmother. It took losing friends and having a crappy relationship with my dh till I really started to understand that this isn't the way I wanted to live. It took counseling, looking inward and learning to love myself that started to turn things around for me. It was hard and painful but that is when I realized that I am a stronger person that I thought and did rid myself of many attitudes that I grew up with. I was lucky to have the forsight and the help and love to make these changes. From what I can see of my mother she doesn't love herself or believe in herself or her worth. Her mother is anger on legs and my mother keeps a relationship going with her. I believe this is NOT good for her in the least. But she wont do anything about it. All she says is she feels bad for her that she is alone and all she has is her (my mother.) Talk about a sick belief. Her mother is alone because nobody can stand to be around her. UGH!

Violetsblue - I hear you. So much was lost too-I'm 41 years old and spent my entire life trying to be that person for THEM when I could have been working on me. So now I too surround myself with good friends and work on me. The me that can be good to me yet good to those around me as well. I hope and pray that the self-preservation that my mother so adamantly strives for in the face of being wrong is something that I NEVER do. So many years are wasted for it. I never want my children to feel that kind of suffering. So many years wasted. Also as the youngest, I could never do enough. I will ALWAYS be the youngest - the loser no good, never enough. It's so they can feel better about themselves and always have some kind of control over me. Well that all ended. I cannot spend the rest of my life being and doing for them and not for myself, my children and husband, but I will ALWAYS ALWAYS love them. It hurts realizing the truth of our family members and realizing all the wasted years. They will never change, but I will for the sake of my own little family. Press on violetsblue and surround yourself with good people, heal and make a wonderful life for yourself and those that can benefit from you. :)

Oh dear, thank you AdultDau. You made me cry. It is nice to be understood for a change.

I am struggling right now to try and have some kind of relationship with my older brother but I'm not real hopeful. He's much older than me so we were never really close. I'm hoping that will work in our favor, but I know my other sister talks constantly to him about me. Still he married a very wise woman so there's always hope. But I'm just as prepared to walk away from that relationship as I am to stay and try. I am literally at the break or make point and I know it. I have to recreate who I am and how I feel about myself. I can't allow their negative beliefs about me to affect me.

And there will always be a part of me that will listen first to what they say wondering if there's any truth to it. It's so hard to know what is true when you've listened to such negative opinions about yourself for so long from people you loved and trusted. I feel like I'm fighting the biggest fight of my life just trying to love myself and believe in myself. Nothing has ever been this hard.

Violetsblue - I too have an older brother that I tried being close to. It was so unnatural for him - he was too uncomfortable. I'm not really sure what that was about except that Mom caused so much division between all of us and she always was right in the middle of all our relationships. I never understood at the age of 8 and brother at the time age 17 would pick me up shake me uncontrollably and throw me across the room. I see older brothers and sisters with that much age difference and most often there isn't any competition between them because there's just no need. Yet my oldest brother had such awful resentment towards my other brother and I as we were both so much younger than him. My oldest brother today turning 50 this year still sees nothing wrong with having thrown me across the room. He remembers it well and laughs about it nearly 33 years later. That's a long time of justifying. Again, I do believe it has to do with Mom and her narcissitic ways. There was no reason for any of the odd behaviors everyone in the family exhibited over the years. Everyone was simply frustrated by the controlling woman that now hates me yet she will deny that too although she now won't speak to me at all. Sickly enough, I still love her and miss her so damn much. She drinks again and has COPD - I think the two made her worse. Her arrogance is off the scales and she can't stop herself now. Press on Violetsblue. We will always love our families and we will always want to know why it couldn't be any different. We can change, but if those around us do not change - none of the relationships will change either. Love yourself first - I'm certain you've never been given that opportunity most of your life. It's okay - you've given yourself to way too many others and paid your dues 10 fold.