Oh, right. I thought that was Hedonism! Shows my ignorance.

Satan doesn't exist without the bible, juice has a point there.

No she doesn't. because I just explained what a satanist is.

@ Alex:

Hello! I've been into the Satanist web sites. Yep. I venture in from time to time just see and view what lies he is telling you all now. And, I venture into the world of the occult, just to see what the people are messing around with and what they are being dupped into believing and worshiping. I do not fear the occult, now it can be frightening to behold what goes on, but Jesus protects His own. He faced evil spirits; they called Him by name, they acknowledged Him when many of the "religious" people during the time He walked among us in that era did not. Evil Spirits and Demons know who Jesus is and that they are subserviant to Him. Even Satan is subserviant to Jesus and God, the Father. Satan is a great, magnificient deceiver. He always has been. He deceived 1/3 of God's children to follow him in rebellion against God. Now, I don't know how exactly many "1/3" that entails, but I am sure it was a significant number, because it really pissed off God. Yep, God gets pissed off, too, just like we do. He has righteous indignation on that which is contrary to Him and His commandments. And, He got very pissed off at Satan for luring His children away from Him. For He declares, "I Am a Jealous God and I Am against that which is against Me." Satan is beautiful; very, very handsome, that Satan is. He is very, very clever. And full of manipulations and charisma. He tells his followers that he is "good" and that the Nazarene is the deceitful one. Oh, my what a conniver and manipulator he is. Encourage you to check him out further in the Bible. These satanic rituals that are being done, members clad in robes, etc., making animal and human sacrifice, these he does not claim as his doing. Satan takes no credit for them, though they are done in man's feeble attempt to honor him. But, it's hard to appease an Entity that has an ego (Pride) that would fill the universe if he could with it. In fact, he is embarrassed by this means of honor. It hurts his "reputation". The alternate Entities that are served during these practices, Baelzubub and Baphomet, just to name a couple, are evil spirits, we refer to them as DEMONS. Remember, 1/3 of God's children (angels) "fell" with Satan at the rebellion, and went awry. So, Satan has many, many under his chain of command. He was the archangel, a cherub. The highest ranking of the creation in heaven. Actually, these in his command are those who are given honor by those who practice rituals and witch craft. You can go back into the history of occultism and discover who they are/were and what their names are. Satan is set on playing the role of "messiah". He is determined to play his role as the anti (instead) of Christ. He is no destroyer in the sense that most think he is. Man and his coherts are the destroyers we see today, under evil influence, though many humans are quite able to be evil without any evil spiritual influence. Satan destroys "wonderfully" and "peaceably" and with "prosperity" Daniel 8: 23,24,25 and he desires to seduce God's children (humans made in God's image) away from Him to serve Satan as their god, in many forms of religions. Satan is a "dead man walking". He is the only one who has received judgment by God thus far to be destroyed. All of us have judgment pending, according as to whether we accept God's method of salvation for our transgressions, his son, Jesus Christ. But, we are free to do as we please. We cannot con God; He is the heart/mind knower. He knows the true ones who want to serve/obey Him; and those who don't. Satan knows his fate. Satan is God's adversary. God's Main Enemy. But, God has many enemies. God allows him to "test" the people here on Earth because God wants to know who will love him, who will serve him, who will seek to want/try to obey him. For more info on your buddy, Satan, read Ezekiel 28: 12 - 19. Satan's eventual end has already been written. Rev. 20:10. That has already been determined, along with all of those fallen angels under his chain of command. Now, Satan wants to take as many of God's people (us earthlings, made and born in God's image) with him into the lake of fire because he HATES those that were created in God's image (us), because he HATES God. The created (Satan) despises the Creator (God aka Elohim - YHVH , Hebrew of His true name) All religions contrary to God come from Satan's attempt to SEPARATE God from his human creation and originated in Babylon in early civilization, conceived under the influence of evil spirits. You follow a deceiver, and a very, very, very good one. So good is he, that except for God's elect, all of humanity would be deceived into following him when he comes to declare himself as the world's "savior", de facto. Scripture declares that the whole world, with the exception of the set aside ones, will "whore" after him, meaning that the people will commit spritual adultry by taking up with Satan, thinking he is the Christ, come to "save" humanity from all the woes and chaos we are in. Deception, under whatever form of religion that is at the time of his "coming" on this earth. And, he will lead them into the lake of fire with him. All those who do not have the seal of God in their forehead, to know that he is the false "savior", because God himself, seals them, will follow after him as "savior". Now, this deceiver and manipulator that has already received a death sentence and wants to take you in the flames with him is who you want to serve? I encourage you to check me out on this revelation of the one you are serving.


And, to the one who feels it is inappropriate to discuss this subject on this forum, we touch on all social issues on this forum. What is the exception of this? Why is it that Christians are expected and demanded to be tolerant of other views and beliefs, but when it comes to our point of view, it is UNACCEPTABLE. We are deemed to be pushing our beliefs down another's throat. Friends, although I will agree, some of us Christians get a little "carried away" when it comes to serving our God, none of us, I don't believe, want to push Jesus Christ down anyone's throat. Defend Him, yeah, I can go with that, although even at that, God tells us He can take care of Himself. In fact, HE FORBIDS US to push Jesus Christ on anyone. The reason most Christians are compelled to bring you to the saving knowledge of Jesus is because they care about you, about your soul. God FORBIDS US from insisting anyone accept Jesus because if anyone dosen't want to accept Him freely, He will not DEMAND acceptance. That is where "free will" comes in. Religion puts DEMANDS on people. Christianity is not religion, contrary to what many interpret it to be. Some people get it all messed up because of what is taught in our churches. It is just an acceptance of God's provision for trangression, a belief in Jesus Christ; and the acceptance and devotion that we will choose not to participate in any of the activities (behaviors) or means of worship (idols) that others chose to mingle in contrary to God's laws and commandments. Now, we may, and do, stumble and transgress against God's desire that we obey him and his laws. But, a true Christian will repent and strive with all his/her heart, not to commit the disobediance again. But we are not immune from faltering. We are imperfect. That's why we have accepted Jesus Christ, because only He has been able to satisfy God's command for complete obedience, and Jesus showed us an excellent example of how to strive for it, and gave us instruction on how to get through this messed up world we live in. The whole Bible is an instruction book and a love letter from God, divinely inspired, put in writing by man, but inspired by the word of God. The accuracy of it alone is inspiring. Christians are not doormats. We may be tolerant, but we can be a pretty aggressive bunch when pushed against the wall to accept and go along with that which is contrary to our devotion to God and to His son, Jesus. We, most, are tolerant of other's views and behaviors so long as we are not demanded to have to participate, or have to put up with them in our little space of this world. And, as a self proclaimed atheist, I can't imagine why any of my revelations about what is truthfully going on around us would be of disturbance to you; why you would feel compelled to insist that we, here, should stop this "fear mongering". Since the world events occurring are truth, it is not a form of fear mongering. It is fact. And, since as an atheist, you do not believe in God or that there is a God, why would events occuring that are suggestive of those spoken of in the Bible to occur in the "last days" be unsettling to you? Just curious. Now, I only draw attention to this, because I find it intriguing and hope to understand where you are coming from more. I am not criticizing you, or chastising you, and please, do not think I am being mean. I am just presenting another side to yours. A thoughtful ponder. I just find it confusing. And, I am not stating we are in the "last days". The "last days", themselves, will declare it.

@ Penn: Sorry to have this ongoing "debate" eat up your thread.
I had to take one of my kitties to the vet this morning; he couldn't pee. His urinary tract is blocked with a kidney stone. He has to remain at the vets through the weekend. Hopefully, it will have passed through the tube he had to have inserted in his bladder. Instructed to check by with vet on Monday. I hope my suggestion helped with getting some much needed electrolite into your "baby". I hope you are as well as can be, considering. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

((((Hugs to all)))

I think to trust in one's own self and follow one's own thoughts and deeds to achieve justification is called "humanism" and the mentality can be traced back to Cain, the first born of Eve, conceived in the Garden of Eden.

And, just who was in the Garden of Eden besides Eve, Adam, and God?

Ezekiel 28: 13 loe and behold, The King of Tyre, aka Lucifer, aka Satan.

Satanism.

Eve, said the "serpent" beguiled her.

Other names/references for Satan: Serpent, the glistening one (and glistening he was), the red dragon, and angel of light.

Humanism is putting "pride" in onesself, believing in our ownselves to achieve rightousness. Yep, that's Satan's hallmark characteristic.

Thus, Satanism. All the same.

I've seen that brought up many times, satanism has nothing to do with satan.. I would however have to wonder where the word derived but it's neither here nor there. Whatever one believes is what they believe and call it what they may.

Oh what is your problem? This thread was obviously going to draw some attention, and I was just sharing what I believe in. Personally I have no problem with religion aslong as it's not shoved in my face, but I will have an opinion if I see a thread like this.

You have actually no idea what "satanism" is, there's different types for a start, let me elaborate.

LaVeyan Satanists - don't worship satan at all, rather they use the name to show their opposition to religion (since Satan means adversary). They don't believe in god or satan, but use Satan as a symbol and to mock the religious who go against human nature. They are really atheists. Basically they live life how they want to live, and accept people for who they are aslong as there do no wrong to other people, aka alot of religious groups disagree with homosexuality, but we believe it's just human nature.

Now Theistic Satanists, like for example the Joy of Satan, they actually worship satan himself.

You see, there different.
...
I'm not religious, or do I believe in god or satan, I believe in individualism, free will, wisdom and enlightenment, and I believe alot of religion can be damaging, but I do know alot of religious people who are lovely, and keep there religion to themselves. I just dislike the ones who throw it in your face, the one's who are against homosexuality, transgender, or anything that isn't the "norm" for religious beliefs.

So no. I'm not actually lying, so get a grip and get your facts right before accusing me of telling tales on here.

Was that to me? No one has a problem,, I just said what you believe is what you believe. I just said as juice did, the word satan is derived from the bible. I would also like to say though, christians also don't all go in the same category nor believe the same way and as you say are definitely mocked and slandered as believing and acting all the same way.

But no, I personally didn't bring it up as a problem and didn't see it brought up as such. Merely conversation

It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the silly mare before you, and I never said all Christians were all the same, read my post again, I said I know alot of lovely religious people, I just dislike the one's who throw it in your face.

Thank you for clarifying and I do appreciate that people are treated as individuals as I extend that also to you. Personally I've always seen you as a gentle soul alex. A deep gentle one.

I'm friends with loads of christians, catholics, jews etc. I love them all, I was just sharing what I believe in until I got my head bitten off and called a liar, and thank you, same to you :)

I just found this post by chance, and the number of replies are too many for me to read all before forgetting what I want to reply. So forgive me if the thread has diverted to something else. I just feel like I should reply to penntucky.

I was raised with a very distorted view of who and what god is supposed to be. I was imposed that I (1) had to believe in his/her/its existence (2) No matter what he's always right, always tells the truth and knows every single thing there is to know in the entire universe (3) Everything that he is, does, feels and has is only and exclusively in the Bible (actually, only my family religion's version of the Bible). (4) Questioning god was the worse thing that a human being can do.

Later as an adult I realized that all that information came from my religious fanatic inadequate depraved pedophile father. When I look at the things I listed there, I realized that that's exactly what my father wanted us, his family, to believe of him. In other words, what was imposed to me to believe about god came from my weirdo father, and he was painting god to me exactly as he viewed his authority as a father.

I am not going to say whether or not I believe in the existence of god or not, because that's not relevant to the point I'm trying to make, which is: look for where you current believe in god comes from, and maybe you realize that what you are believing is another person's interpretation of god.

I have read the Bible several times and time and time again, I realize that the "God" that the Bible shows looks more like a paranoid schizophrenic than a loving god. The Bible has stories of a "loving god" that likes people to sacrify children, where it's ok for a guy to have sex to not one, but to of his daughters and get them pregnant, to be vindictive to the point of letting an entire generation of people die in the desert, and so on.

When you look at it from a psychological standpoint, god does look like a bad case of bipolar disorder. That doesn't mean that you should dismiss the Bible, but to be sure that you use your own judgement when using and reading it. I mean, I shouldn't assume that you're a christian, but your name and location (I'm from PA) makes me think that chances are you are or have been surrounded by christianity.

Re the post: I have read the Bible several times and time and time again, I realize that the "God" that the Bible shows looks more like a paranoid schizophrenic than a loving god. The Bible has stories of a "loving god" that likes people to sacrify children (Whoa right here. A little clarification needed. ****God NEVER DEMANDED SACRIFICES OF CHILDREN, that is what the evil spirits of old influenced past civilizations to do and pagan religions did, sacrificing to THEIR god and idols children in the fire, now people sacrificed certain "clean" animals unto God, but even then it plainly says in Psalm 40:6 "Sacrifice and offering thou dids't not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering has thou not required" No blood sacrifice from "clean" animals was good enough to cover our transgressions; only Jesus' blood was ever acceptable. God delights in those who seek to do his will; He delights in those who love Him. That's what He desires most.****

where it's ok for a guy to have sex to not one, but to of his daughters and get them pregnant, ***** Another place of clarity needed, just where did you find that in scripture? In fact, friend, God deemed DEATH punishable for those who defiled their daughters, it was and is INCEST and the first example to appear was when Lot's 2 daughter's got him drunk to conceive children because they feared there was no man to bring forth from their lineage after Sodom & Gommorah was destroyed and because he was DECEIVED it wasn't held against him, but it is recorded in scripture of the account and that children were born, but NOWHERE does God condone that behavior, Read Leviticus for God's very strict rules for the punishment of rape, (including pediphilia) murder, and other hosts of transgressions****

to be vindictive to the point of letting an entire generation of people die in the desert ***** true, God did just that, He had the right to, He had delivered them from their captivity in Egypt by marvelous and wonderous works and miracles, He feed them in the desert when they had no food, provided them and their flocks that they came out of Egypt with (and they came out RICH folks, as payment for the harsh treatment and slavery that had been inflicted on them by the Egyptians) and they REBELLED against His instruction to enter the promised land that He had given them because they feared the Giants (and they were, because they were hybrid offspring of the intermixing of fallen angels and human women) even though God had told them that the Giants had been given into their hands, all the people had to do was go forth and take the land but because of their fear and UNBELIEF in God's ability to defend them against the Giants, they would not do as He instructed, However, not the ENTIRE generation died in the wilderness, ONLY the men of war because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord, Joshua was a spy sent to check out the land and he reported it was for the taking, but the other men would not go, but their children went in (Joshua 5:6), and so on.

When you look at it from a psychological standpoint, god does look like a bad case of bipolar disorder. (Not quite, friend. Sounds like more clarity may be needed in the scriptures) That doesn't mean that you should dismiss the Bible, but to be sure that you use your own judgement when using and reading it. (And, here friend, the Bible backs up itself, and not another judgement to perceive it. God destroyed the earth with a flood (Genesis 6:5) because He saw that the every imagination of the thoughts of man were evil in his heart. So therefore, we do not adhere to the judgements and perceptions of man, but of the Bible itself. It interprets itself.