@pemdcat - wow, thats tough bro.

Have you spoken to a specialist? I was reading this girly magazine. Oh MY GOD. No wonder girls have issues. ok, lets not get side-tracked. Anyway, I came across this article about a woman who went through 5 divorces before she went to a specialist. She learned that it was her!! Not them!! Surprise, Surprise!!

She just wasn't meant to be married and tied down. She needs to be single with a few different men and thats just the way it is.

But I feel sorry for her victims. So, sad.

Thanks, galvatron, for taking the time to talk to me. I love that song. Did you know it was going to make me cry? lol
And that was after you made me laugh. Poof, huh? lol I think that's what happens when I couldn't keep the change going (been there, tried that ).
I've tried not to change myself but that doesn't work either it seems.
I keep thinking I've found "him" only to find I didn't. How many times do you have to try? (I know... until you find that person.)
I hope there's someone for me... if not in this life, then the next, right? :) Thanks again... I'll listen to the song again later and try to put it into my future along with hope and a big stick to hit him over the head so he can't get away lol
Thanks again. : )

when I think of all the people who have faced their demons of addiction in particular, but other assorted demons, with the help of therapists, treatment centres, 12 step programmes, spiritual practices, religious faith, getting a job they love, going back to school, the death of a loved one or other catastrophic loss,their own health crisis, witnessing atrocities, surviving atrocities, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, becoming famous, and in some cases even the love of someone else,

and that, hmm...maybe half of all those people are men...I would hazard a guess that many men change.

I have spent the pass 3 years opening every door looking under every rock to uncover everything I didn't like about myself......and I mean everything, I make a declaration that I was not going to go thought this in vain that I would come out the other side a better Dad, man and maybe someday a partner

*applause*

I think I would DITTO everything RickT4022 said.

I hate threads like these, because they are sexist in nature even if that isnt the intent and the problem usually lies with the person's view or outlook since it was there choice to love who they did.People can change if they take the time to look deep inside themselves and figure out what they are doing wrong.

I could say women dont change EITHER. I could say I married and mentally ill and very abusive one, then I dated one that feed me lies for 2 years and went back to abusive husband over me. Seems like every woman I date has some majore issue! Now I could sit here and blame them and every woman for the problems in my life, but I dont. I take the time to look at ME and see how I can improve myself and be a better man. I continue looking for that woman to love.

That way when I do find the right woman she will have a great man to love. I can and will change, but its because I want to and have the ability to look at my actions and make myself better!

@lostsoul72 - The military will not let you in.

if you have to change for someone, then it's all wrong.

It's like sleeping... people say to do these drugs and do this ritual and pray and suck on ice.... but I say, don't change, just take off your clothes and jump in bed and let nature do its thing. (wink, wink).

see, people keep trying to change before bed, then when they get in, they are fully clothed so sex is harder and so is sleep.

LOl thanks galvatron ! Im to old for the military anyway.

Yes people, not just men, can change. But only if/when they want to. In my experience - people have to experience a certain level of pain before they act on change - and that level can be different for different people. Some people choose to self medicate, or blame others, rather than looking at themselves - but even those people - can get to a point where they have to change or just give up. Most people given that choice - will change.

The thing is though - there is no guarantee where or when that point will come. You may wait 20 years for it, you may wait a week - depends on how much you're willing to put up with.

I don't try to change people - I can either deal with them as they are....or not. That is my choice.

I agree with copingjusts last sentence. People change when and if they're ready.

I certainly don't expect anyone to change. Or try to get anyone to change. That's arrogant. If I'm not willing to accept someone as they are, then I leave them alone to go their own way and do their own thing.

just a thought

***IF***
your ex is a bad guy (your words) because of a personality disorder
(Cluster B Personality Disorder like Narcissism or Sociopath)
then the science so far says change does not appear possible
because personality is developed at a young age
and creates some real biological differences in the brain
and finally because they like the way they think

I don't know if this is what you were alluding to or not, but realizing and accepting that my exS would always have the same character, the same personality he had when I met him ( despite creating a legitimate life by becoming a lawyer)-- when I realized he would "always be this way" -- helped me stop hoping things could have been different.

They just couldn't have been different.

Bottomline, I had to leave, it was the only sane option for me.

I agree with Joyride. I don't know why people keep expecting or hoping someone else will change anyway. Its not our place to change anyone else. Everyone just keeps trying to control the other person and taking the other persons inventory. This requires judgement first. Sometimes people just march to a different drummer. Sometimes for the highest good of everyone involved, its time to part ways as no more growth together is possible.

As far as men ever changing the fact that they'll stick it in a bowl of soup if its still warm, that will not change until nature finds a more effective way to reproduce and evolves it out of them in another millon years. So it just is what it is until then.

Ive never stuck it anywere it wasent asked for NewAgain. I also dont play with food so maybe i am the first of a new evolution. :)

I dont think I hear anyone saying they wanted to change their partner.

Only some curiousity if someone bad might ever become good.

I'm guessing, under that is a sentiment that one would be loved or valued enough by their ex that they would have made different choices that would have hurt them or unravelled their relationship?

I can say it depends on what you have to change! For me I have had a problem with letting go of the past and it would affect me and my temper when people that are with me that would try to get things out of me I would get upset easy. But counseling and talking about everything these days have made me better as I have tons of stuff from the past and its not easy sometimes now to try and change. But my opinion on things everyone is not perfect and if they say they are great let them think that as that's there thoughts. I also don't expect people to change for me I'm willing to listen to anyone if they have issues as I understand everyone deals with things different. The only thing I can't stand is being used or lied to and people that are putting on a show just be yourself and if you have faults that's the only way people can truly help and be honest! That is the only way I see people changing if you can do that then change just comes and you won't even have to try as there will be tons of people to help you! make a change and support you on the journey!

And just support the person and try to guide them to the right places for help.

I never give up on anyone as I know how hard things can be and also how hard it can be to deal with other people that are going through things.