Oh yes, the porn. It went from straight porn to looking for the illegal kind of porn. I think everyone knows which porn is illegal.

I now know one of the reasons he married me. I was very thin and built like a young girl. When we married I weighed all of 90 pounds. Very petite and small boned. I was married for a body type and because I could handle things and not fall apart. Told that one night when he got very drunk. Not the body type but the fact that I could handle things and not fall apart.

NPD's are slippery creatures. Hard to pin down on anything and will make your life miserable and you learn to doubt yourself.

I apologize for asking people here to share their experiences. I had seen a number of people mention NPD as a reason for their divorce, and thought it would be a place of support for the discussion. It appears this topic would be better discussed in a different forum.

My intention was not to cause pain for those who have suffered living with an NPD person. Nor, was it to propagate a myth that an NPD person is merely someone who is selfish and likes to gaze in the mirror.

I have never told my children or anyone else, except a counselor, that I believe my husband has the disorder. I know he will never have an official diagnosis because he refuses to see a counselor.

"Seek not to be understood but to understand"

I think sometimes people do identify with labels and others realities to the point of making it their role or who they are. Rather than being "Sally Smith" their "I was abused", "I'm married to a Sociopath" "I have PSTD" "I'm a diabetic" Their not Sally anymore. People do this in all aspects. like John Doe is no longer John Doe, he's Dr. John Doe. He's not a man whose work role is to be a doctor, he IS a doctor. We become our roles and loose our "Selves" in them...

I know for me being able to learn about and identify various abuse techniques and disorders really helped me to see that I did not cause it and that I was not responsible for another's insanity.
I have no doubt that it is crucial to ones recovery to get into therapy and on a path of growth and enlightenment.

Being a survivor of an abusive sociopath myself and stuck in the insidious and soul sucking cycle of abuse and being unable to see it or pull out of it I know how important it is to acquire knowledge as to how it all works. Including what exactly your dealing with. Knowledge is power. One of the hallmark techniques by abusers is to isolate and convince their victim that it is their fault and that there is something wrong with them. Learning that little tidbit is essential to beginning to be able to leave. If I learn that my abusive spouse has NPD, BP or w/e then with that comes the freedom to know that I did not cause it and that I'm not somehow intrinsically damaged or faulty. Or that I did not deserve to be abused.

That is not to say that because I need to figure out what I'm dealing with that it means that I am not responsible for choosing the situation in the first place. Naturally I did because of family of origin issues and inner child issues. That work needs to be done as well or I would choose the same way again. The familiar..
One needs to see the "big picture". There are a lot of aspects and it is complex.

It is true that a lot of diagnosis or labels are thrown around today and used lightly.
Alcoholics, Sex addicts, Food addicts etc... Are all going to have some narcissistic behaviors, it's the nature of the self indulgent beast. And maybe some addicts are first narcissistic and are self medicating... There is any number of possible scenarios.
It is also true that it is near impossible to get a true Narcissist into a therapist office meaning many do go undiagnosed....

I also know that it is difficult to convey what ones reality was and how detrimental, confusing and terrifying it was to live with a true narcissist, especially a dangerous one. Like most things in life.
Ladies do you think you could truly express what it felt like to push your baby through your body and what it felt like when they crowned? Or when they kicked? To a man? Can we explain to someone who has never had kids what it's like to take on that lifetime responsibility?
It's no different. It's unexplainable, as many things are if one has not lived it.

Many people, now a days, are self involved and selfish. They do crap to serve their neurotic needs. It seems to be the American way. Maybe neurotic is a better word to use than narcissistic for general purposes... idk...

I think to suggest that someone might look something up on the internet and then apply that to their spouse or themselves and then blindly live in the shadow of it or reads it on a thread and thinks that because their spouse looks in a mirror all the time means they are narcissistic is a huge stretch. And if someone does do that then their just to stupid for me to worry about. LOL!
I mean come on...

Phoenix, no one is taking away your reality here. I think most of us get that you were traumatized by a conscious-less person.

This whole forum is supposed to be about all facets of the human experience which includes sharing varying opinions, versions and stories. It's not about YOU, it is not personal. We all have our own versions of reality...

You are not your experience. You are Phoenix (or w/e your real name is) Your experience, what you do for a living, whether or not your a vegan, a golfer, married to a nut, or a gardener is not WHO you are. They are aspects, roles if you will...
WHO are YOU?

Nothing that goes on here is about you or is personal... Most of us here right now have been here doing exactly what you see us doing for a long time now... Before you arrived...
And that includes posting silly, funny, crazy, argumentative, sexual and stupid threads...

You know YOUR truth and that's all that matters, everyone doesn't have to get it...

"Seek not to be understood but to understand"

Louie

I wasnt going to post anymore for awhile, but I wanted to say that was lovely, thankyou.

I'd like to add just one thing if I may, therapists who treat abused clients, will tell you, one of the corners of recovery is that their experiences are believed and taken seriously. I was lucky enough to have that with my therapists who believed what my experience was before I could myself. We partners of N's and S's are most often more empathic than the average, and therefore carry more remorse and willingness to question self and shoulder more responsibility than was ours to take on. But for many of us, that one person, a therapist, believes, is often not enough. Its not that I need to crusade and shove what happened to me in everyones faces and get my validation wherever I go. if anything I struggle with allowing in more than just self-validation (a common problem for someone with my experience according to the research).

So it takes guts for us to say it to a stranger or a forum because we fear it wont be respected or believed. Its made more difficult when there is hushing going on.

I am thankful there have been a few voices who understand, or at least willing to hold a space even if they dont understand.

Thats all I was hoping for this day.

and by the way,

what I say here I only say on this support forum, the rest of my life I wear all the other hats of my life (and identity). I can understand very easily why, when I dont talk about my career or son or friends or mother or photography or painting or travelling or political activism blah blah blah that I come off sounding like this is how I identify with myself as.

ha! its only in romantic terms that I do.

and as you know, I have vascillating hope that will change over time.

Louie, thank you for the kindness and understanding of your post.

And, Phoenix, I do believe you.

I was told my our marriage counselor that she strongly suspected that my ex had NPD. She told me after 2.5 months of seeing us that to give up on the marriage divorce him because he was non negotiable. Even at that I waited a year like a fool.

he's classic in the disorder --passive agressive, vindictive, calculated, meditated and Lies oh my when it's not even necessary. He thinks he is above the law and will never get caught.

I to believe I was married for my body type. I am petite and child like ...but when I got pregnant it was way way over.

My ex cheated, uses porn excessively, and has gotten into the illegal stuff too.

Thank God I'm away and healing. Thank God.

And THAT'S why Louie is my best and most trusted friend. Brava.

Louie- you got it right on!
I don't have any more to say on the subject but thank you for understanding.

Lily, I think it is a good thread. I, too, would like to apologize if anything I posted was hurtful to anyone. We all have our own demons and triggers. IMO, discussion helps with understanding and coping.

(((Phoenix)))

Bravo, Louie! well said.

It was mentioned that there might be some who would read this and believe that simply because someone liked looking at their own image in a mirror a lot that they were NPD. I can't recall a single poster that is, IMO, that naive.

I didn't read all the posts but my exh is a Narcissist with Anti-Social Disorder Tendencies and I believe Reactive Attachment Disorder. All three of them are commonly bundled together.

He said to me that I was breaking the family apart for leaving. But I left because he would not leave his girlfriend. He called me more names than I care to admit. He told me that the law is just a suggestion. He believed every scheme he had would make him rich and yet it never did.

This is a sad disorder. If you are divorcing a Narcissist I recommend reading Surviving the Storm, google the book, it's cheap and also read Controlling People by Patricia Evans, it's very helpful.

hugs to all