hey heratic, sorry you are feeling this way. i've tried to describe the very real pain that comes with depression to non beepers/depressives. i've broken bones, the depression is worse.

I'd encourage you to keep trying and to be as kind to yourself as possible.

dear heretic, I am so so sad to hear the depth of your hurting and despair. I know that no words I can say can ease the pain that you feel. But know that I do empathise and I have been there too, hating myself for not having the guts to actually kill myself. Please know that you are not completely alone on this journey, you have us here to understand and witness your pain.

Thank you to everyone who responded, you are such an insightful and caring group. I'm glad I could let some feelings out and not be judged, but instead be heard and understood. I don't know how long I will last till my final exit but while I am still here I sure am glad you guys are too - so thanks.

WendyML, I apologize for having offended you. In no way did I mean to sound like I was judging anyone, or that I don't believe mental illnesses are real. I'm not, and I do. If that's the impression I gave, then I am sincerely sorry. That is not how I feel.

I also agree with you that the wrong combination of meds is just as dangerous as no meds at all. For years I've been on Lexapro, Lyrica, Xanax, and Concerta, as well as various pain meds, heart meds, etc. I can't imagine how jacked up my brain chemistry must have been. And I couldn't figure out why continuing to live seemed like such a logical flaw. But I couldn't die, either. Stuck. (It was weirdly absurd. So freaking sick, all the time, but never sick enough to die. Like opening an email from the Universe that said "fuck you" every single day.)

So for ME, and I mean no judgment for anyone else, something had to change. For me, I chose the harder path, because the easier path (which consisted of a tedious, unsuccessful waiting process,) wasn't working.

Nobody wants to be so sad, or depressed, or desperate enough to suicide. Who wouldn't choose a happy, sunny, fulfilled existence? But we don't all get that life. I don't think suicide is a selfish act, I think it's a desperate, last-option act. Mental illness IS real, and it is sometimes fatal. No different than cancer, or heart disease. It's sad, but it's true. And it's a double-whammy because so many people do view it as selfish or cowardly, but they've never been in such a deep, dark hole.

FWIW, Heretic, I hope you find some magical combination of ingredients that makes your life happy. Or happier, at least. I hope that some kind of sunshine breaks through. You do deserve it. I wish I knew that recipe for you.

Thanks Adria and thank for the Private Message.

You mentioned, "And it's a double-whammy because so many people do view it as selfish or cowardly, but they've never been in such a deep, dark hole".

There is so much ignorance, stigma, fear and ignorance about mental illness itself. And irony is, certainly for me and I know for others that we get shunned and pushed to the edge of society - the absolute WORST place to put any human being because we are, by evolution pack animals. But desperately worse for people with mental illness who benefit so much from love and inclusion and non-judgement. And it makes us even sicker.

I was definitely was a target of the viscious gossip cycle, rejection etc. But if you really want to put a target on your back, make an uncompleted suicide attempt. Then all those things become WRIT LARGE. People think they can tell you what to do and how to deal with your mental illnesses, then they'll step in and out of your life when they feel like it. My experience is that you become in peoples' mind Public Property. but I have made permanent separation from most of those people now - I have the be the one with assertiveness and boundaries in my life.

The gossip cycle is off the scale and on that issue alone I truely terrible. I don't think people realise how soul destroying that is for the person simply trying 100% as heretic has described to get well. I have several serious mental illnesses and am also an 11 years sober alcoholic. Like heretic I have thrown EVERYTHING at my illnesses, over and over again. To work so hard on oneself only to be judged by damily and friends is truely awful. Of course, part of my journey is to progress toward my freedon from seeking peoples' validation, but that's easier said than done - again, we are pack animals.

Ironically in my family I am doubly blighted. There are masses of people who are active in all sorts of active addiction and there are many many enabling partners. But AA and other 12 Step programs is verboten because to even talk about it is to face it (I know about that because I was a blackout drunk for 18 years and fully in denial until the end of it). On the flipside I have my ongoing struggle with mental illness for which I get rejected. So I'm damned for where I succeed and I'm damned for where I struggle!!! LOL. That just goes to show you can't please anyone but yourself and to try to please all the members of my massive extended family is fruitless.

Great post Wendyml.

With the lack of funding and care available for people with mental illness, I get the feeling that society secretly wishes we would just die already. They certainly don't want to 'waste' any money on us.

Yet we are judged negatively for wanting to kill ourselves, or for actually carrying it out. No win situation.

I doubt I will ever be in paid work again, best case is part time and I will still be partly reliant on welfare. Society is paying a lot to keep me alive on the disability benefit and isn't getting much back.

Sometimes I think society would be better off if I died.

Well, I for one don't think society would be better if you died!! Even just your membership of this group is a contribution to society.

At the same time, I know how you feel. I am a "worker bee" by nature and haven't worked for four years since I lost my beloved and hard won career - and I have tried to go back to work. I know intellectually that I deserve the Pension, which I am on, but I still get waves of guilt at times that I'm not pulling my load ec. And those feelings aren't felt only by peopole with mental illness, people with many different conditions feel the same way.

Thanks Wendy, I was brought up to take care of myself and earn my keep. I tried so hard not to go on the disability pension when I first lost my career but after 2 years of struggling I eventually realised that it wasn't fair on employers to have me work then disappear for a month in hospital or go crazy at work and stuff everything up and cause them stress. I just couldn't guarantee that I would turn up sane and work ready every day I was meant to be there.

You are right, many people feel this way.

You did better than me in being so proactive and considering the needs of your employer. I fought toooth and nail to stay. And they did eventually kick me out. But they were right to do it because as they were Government Department they HAD, in retrospect gone through the legal hoops that they have to - like posting me to a different part of the Department to see if there were better scenatios to fit in with my limitations etc. But my brain was cooked by then and I could no longer the job I was hired to do.

Wendy, I think I didn't explain properly that it took being fired from 4 jobs for mania before I gave up. The first was my fulltime professional career, the second I downgraded a lot to a job I thought would be less demanding, then the next 2 were volunteer jobs that turned into part time paid work. I couldn't even work 15 hours per week, now bad is that.

Each firing was devastatingly humiliating and painful for me, and it was also very difficult for each employer, my illness and erratic behaviour and absences were very stressful for them too.

I'm not suicidal currently but when I see how much mental illness there is and how many of us are not fixable, a nice tasting drink that sent us to permanent sleep would be a cost saving option for the government welfare bill.

I can empathize with what you are going through. Suicide is a hard topic to find someone to talk to about. I think about it constantly to the point it can feel overwhelming. I gave it my best attempt a few months ago and came quite close to being successful. If others on here are uncomfortable discussing suicide as much as you'd like to or feel the need to, feel free to send me a message. Sometimes it helps to know you're not alone in how you feel. I wish you the very best.

I am slowly coming to be more at peace with the decision to die. It is permanent, as those who try to dissuade often point put. So it's just a matter of how long I want to continue living. I don't know how long that will be, more than days I think, less than months, I am just not sure. But I can feel now that when the time comes I will be at peace with it and not as scared as I once was. After all, I will die eventually no matter what. So choosing a peaceful death for myself seems like the right thing to do. I appreciate all who share this journey with me - thank you.

I hear what you are talking about. I believe that my life, now that it has much improved, has not been particularly worth living either. I have a child, so suicide is not on my to do list now, but I hear you. Please be very careful. One thing that freaks me out is the possibility of messing up the suicide, and staying alive, but in a wheelchair, or brain- (or liver-)damaged, or whatever. If you hate your life now, imagine how that must feel! So, until there are safe suicide options (meaning what guarantees death), life may be the lesser evil. I wish you good luck. This life will end eventually, try to have some fun in the meantime. Also, try light therapy. That's what got me out of my last months-long suicidal spell. My life is not any better now, but I don't care any more.

Don't say that, Heretic! You've got to find some source of hope or meaning. I'm so sorry you feel so horrible you just want to end it.
I wish I had a magic answer but I don't. big hugs to you. xxxx

I agree with #1. It takes guts to LIVE.