Actually, John makes it very clear that Jesus is God. There are 8 "I AM" statements which correspond to the I AM proclamation in Exodus 3:14

"14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:14

The Septuagint uses the same term in the Greek for YHWH as Jesus uses for himself in the 8 "I AM" statements in John 8:58

"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

In the Greek, this term is γ εμ, which means, "I, I AM"

"58 επεν ατος ησος· μν μν λγω μν, πρν βραμ γενσθαι γ εμ."

Jesus uses the same term to describe himself as YHWH does to Moses in the Old Testament when Moses asks YHWH his name. Hence, Jesus is God!

And if you do not believe the truth of the Greek, then read in plain English.

"8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority." Col. 2:8-10

Israel4ever has long been known as a deceiver who tries to take people captive with his human traditions from his Christadelphian cult, who denies the deity of Christ!

Or, another Scripture which describes the deity of Christ:

"1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,

“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God's angels worship him.”
7 Of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
10 And,

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.[a]
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”
13 And to which of the angels has he ever said,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation"

Jesus Christ is God, do not be deceived by these lying posts which seek to make Jesus just a man!

[The concept of the Godhead is that God "exists" in three persons and that each is neither greater or lesser than the other two and they are "together" indivisible from each other and therefore are also ONE]
Can you show us a verse that says that?

[Jesus Christ is God, do not be deceived by these lying posts which seek to make Jesus just a man! ]
No one is saying that he is "just a man". Isnt God Jesus's Father?
'

Marlene ...[ Israel4ever has long been known as a deceiver who tries to take people captive with his human traditions from his Christadelphian cult, who denies the deity of Christ! ]
Wow! Sounds like you've been talking to someone we both know...... Can you tell me your Religion so I can say bad things too? but don't worry, I wont.... Let's be nice. Or shall I say, Christ like.

[ See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.]
But isn't that you Marlene? Isnt the Trinity man-made? Can you give me a verse that says Jesus is God the Son?

["Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” ]
Jesus is not saying he is God. He is stating the Gospel was preached even before Abraham. Even Adam and Eve knew about someone to come who would take away sins. That's all.

Plus Marlene, I'm glad you put in Hebrews 1. First of all, if there is any book that tells us that Christ was like us, it is Hebrews. Hebrews 2v14 tells us that. If Jesus is God, the atonement goes right out the window. Plus, how could he have ever been tempted or have known what we go thru with sin? Jesus is the Son of God AND the son of man. God manifest in the flesh. Not God the Son. Show me one verse that says that.

Hebrews 2:14 (NIV)
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

This verse says " If Jesus is God, the atonement goes right out the window."

Uhm.....no. It says to me that God, In Jesus, needed to share our "humanity" so that he could break the power that satan holds over us.

And the statement translated "I am" was to show the Israelites that Jesus and God were the same. God told Moses, When Moses asked who should I say sent me. "I am" "YHWH." Jesus used this same term, different language, so the Israelites would know that he and God of the old testament were the same.

This is what I have studied and understand.

Marlene, I believe what you quoted was great. But, attaching character, a little unchristian. God loves us all. I believe we are all here so we can present what our views and beliefs are. We may not always agree, but at least we are talking about things of God. Israel4Ever, what I got from your discussion threads is that you are presenting Jesus as a human man chosen by God. Here I have to agree with Marlene. Jesus was God. God is Jesus. They both exist with the Holy Spirit.

This is MY opinion!!

I am still having problems with you putting Jesus as human. I am reminded of the story of the three Hebrews who would not bow to Nebuchadnezzar's image. The were to be thrown into a fiery furnace. The fire was so hot that even the men who threw them in were killed.

Daniel 3
22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flames of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.

25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.

Only three men went in the furnace. But, when Nebuchadnezzar looked in, he saw four men. And, he described the fourth man as "the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." How did he know what the Son of God looked like?? I am sure this was an amazing sight. I am sure the original language can be interpreted as "the form of the Son of God." I am sure he saw three men and a fourth "form of the Son of God." Especially because when the men came out of the furnace, the Bible records that only THREE came out. And there was not even the smell of fire on the clothes.

Once again, just my opinion. But, to me this proves that Jesus, "the Son of God" existed long before He was in human form.

Actually, that was an angel in the fire. Same with the burning bush with Moses. Jesus didn't pre-exist. Scripture tells us he was born. Also from David's seed.

And just because Jesus says, I am, doesn't make him God. Remember that God is working thru Jesus. God talks thru Jesus. Just like angels too. God talks thru angles.

But, remember, that God, as angels, came down and supped with Abraham. He is not able to be seen in His complete and true self. One example is talking to Moses on the mountain when Moses rec'd the ten commandments. Moses asked to see God. God said this cannot happen. Because the holiness and the true form of God would only be seen in .......... oh only a small portion of God could be looked on by humans in their "sinful nature." God had Moses hide in a crevasse. Then He passed by and Moses saw only God's backside.

When He came to announce to Abraham (Abram at the time) that he would be the father of many, He (God) came in the form of an angel. I believe this was the part of Him (God) that would later be in the form of the human, Jesus. Yes, Jesus was a man, but the inner part of Him, the part that we couldn't see, was God.

God, the father, Son, And Holy Spirit. Three in one. A concept that is hard for us humans to understand. But, than again, why do we question God? Because of science, mostly. We, as humans, expect everything to be explained away. But, God is ......... well, unexplainable.

THANK YOU FOR THIS POST ,ISRAEL


Yes, JESUS came to do the FATHERS will:
♥To reveal the Father
♥To be a ransom for many
♥To serve
♥To save the world
♥To preach the good news of the kingdom of God

♥To give the Father's words
♥To testify to the truth
♥To die and destroy satan's power
♥To destroy the devil's works
♥To fulfill the Law and the Prophets
♥To give life
♥To taste death for everyone
♥To atone for sin
♥To proclaim freedom for believers
♥To proclaim the year of the Lord's favor
♥To bring judgment
♥To take away sin

[["Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” ]
Jesus is not saying he is God. He is stating the Gospel was preached even before Abraham. Even Adam and Eve knew about someone to come who would take away sins. That's all. ]

This is where you lack of a knowledge of Greek is severely limiting you. And reading all your information from your cult, of course.

As I said in another thread, in Greek, the "I AM" statement is originally from Exodus 3:14, where God gives Moses his name.

"God said to Moses, “I am who I am.”And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” Ex. 3:14

The Septuagint, or LXX is the Old Testament Greek translation, which both Jesus and the apostles quoted from, because the lingua franca, or common language of the Roman world was Greek, since the Hellenization of the world after Alexander the Greek. Actually, that was part of God's plan "the fullness of time," so the gospel could be so easily spread because of the common language of Koine Greek.

So if you compare the "I AM" statement in John 8:58 to the same words used in Exodus 3:14, you find exactly the same and unusual Greek work "I, I AM" or γ εμ, in the Greek. THE SAME!!

So Jesus is claiming to be God. He actually claims this 8 times in the book of John. That he is the same God that was in the burning bush on Mt. Horeb.

John 10:7 has another "I AM" statement "So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I AM the door of the sheep." Jesus then continues to talk to the Pharisees about who he is.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

Why did they seek to stone Jesus? Because they thought he was "only a man" and he was trying to "Make himself God." ??

Did Jesus stop and say "Oh no, heaven forbid I should blaspheme in such a terrible way. I don't mean to say I am God!" NO, and NO and NO! Instead he continues to explain the hypostatic union of himself with the Father.

"but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father."

To be in the Father is to BE GOD. To be the great I AM, is to be God.

And so what how did the Pharisees respond when he said he was in the Father, that he was the great "I AM"?

"Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands." John 10:39.

They sought to arrest him?? Why would they arrest him for blasphemy if he was only claiming to be a man?

My thought Israel, is that you need to learn Greek really well, and read the New Testament in it. Although the deity of Christ is clearly there in the English, the Greek leaves no options, but to fall on your knees and worship Christ as God and Saviour, as Thomas did!

"Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” John 20:28

Just a little suggestion if that is ok? To Isreal4ever and especially to MarleneJ. I am not the founder of this group however I am an admin. and I would just like to remind everyone that part of our "mission" statement is that we do NOT critcize others in the group. It is perfectly ok to express individual ideas and beliefs and indeed ALL are free to do just that. However when it deteriorates to witch hunting and name calling a line must be drawn. Whether or not you agree with Israel4ever or not Marlene you have no right to call him names. And to be clear I am NOT saying that you are resorting to such tactics Isreal4ever because you have been placed in a situation in which you must "defend" yourself which you have every right to do. That being said it would be great for us not to put down others here. There is far to much of that going on in the corrupt world in which we live. Allowing it to go on amongst God's people is of no value and is actually hurtful and degrading. Please, in Christ's name, play nicely children!!!

Jesus and God are equal and one. John 17:22.....

"And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are One:"(NKJV)

I like to look at the "small" details in this verse. The fact that the You(God) is capitalized as well as the Me(Jesus) and in turn the We(God and Jesus) tells us much about the "equal" nature of God the Father and God the Son even if these "exact" words are not used. This verse infers the heck out of it pardon my language. Simply saying that God was made manifest in Jesus Christ says plainly that God did walk among us. Jesus actually was God. What did Christ say to Phillip in the Gospel of Matthew chapter 14 verse 9?........

Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me Phillip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, `Show us the Father'?"(NKJV)

Is this clear enough? I certainly hope that it is. We will ALL stand before the judgement seat of Christ when He comes for the second time. Read what Jesus says in the Gospel of John chapter 5 verses 22 and 23.....

"For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgement to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they Honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."(NKJV)

Remember when Moses went up on Mount Sinai to receive the Ten Commandments? When he was there in the presence of God he did NOT actually see God face to face because doing so would have killed him!!! Jesus was sent to bridge this "gap" and so that ALL who believe in Him could be saved. Just because Jesus was in the "flesh" does not make Him any less than God. The apostles, like Moses, could not have looked at the actual face of God directly without being killed also. Once again Jesus bridged that gap and was Immanuel, God with us!!!!

AMEN ,Mary to THE FATHER,THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT .

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JESUS is LORD!!!!! First and foremost....BUT.....HE did take on a "human" existence in order to gain followers and spread HIS Father's Word.