I've been called a Big Book Thumper, Step Nazi and AA Evangelist by people in AA and here at DS. Not that I mind, but I would appreciate if they would at least buy me an arm-band & helmet.

I for one do not call those who have no program dry-drunks. I would call them "spectators".

It is those who state that they have a "easier, softer way" that get me mad. I call them dry-drunks because it is simpler than calling them Lazy-bum token collectors who carry a weak 12th step message.

Those who teach should be held to a higher standard. Even the man from Galilee held teachers to a higher standard.

I have to jump in here and say that very often the people who don't find happiness and emotional balance in sobriety have made a stronger and longer-lasting impression on me than many who preached and taught. Here's one bery memorable example.

I was sober about two years when I went to a regular Sunday morning meeting here the boonies of central New Hampshire. Outside in the parking lot, glowing amidst the jalopies like a diamond in a dungheap, was a new Gold Edition Chrysler New Yorker with Massachusetts plates on it. Inside was the Gold Edition owner, a guy with probably $15,000 worth of gold on his body, most of which was the Rolex Oyster watch. I figured that watch had probably cost about twenty times as much as my entire net worth at the time!

An oldtimer chaired, and we talked in turn around the room about the steps, blah blah, and when his turn came, this fellow dressed us down like a Marine drill sergeant breaking in a batch of new recruits.

"Youse all sick, SICK," he intoned, "and some o' youse are a lot sicker than others. I'm gonna tell youse sickos something. Them Steps? They're bullshit. That Big Book? It isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Let me tell youse something. I've been sober one day at a time in Alcoholics Anonymous for 13 years, and every f**king day of it has been hard, and most days it's very, very hard. Do youse hear me? And anyone who tells you any different has his head up his ass."

At first I wanted the chairperson to shut this guy off, because there was a newcomer in the room and this was most definitely not the message newbies are supposed to hear.

Then it struck me. This guy's white-knuckled misery was the most honest, heartfelt and convincing reason to get into the steps I'd ever heard. Hey, if you can't believe him, who can you believe? We gave him a standing ovation.

the term "drydrunk" is meant only to explain that tho' many can stop drinking not all can change the negative mind set, attitudes and (learned)behavior without help. For many AA is the answer, others therepy and church. Sobriety is about turning from the selfishness and self-centeredness that has ruined lives, relationships and, for those that believe, a closer contact with GOD. I know I am going to put my foot in it here but I have to admit that someone pronouncing themselves a Guru or even saying their way is the only way is going against the traditions and principles of the AA program. At times I see these disagreements pop up and I (and my belief system) can't help but wonder if the Enemy is trying to distract ALL of us from our purpose. To be there when an alcoholic (or anyone for that matter) reaches out for help.

Hi - I used to go to AA everyday, but now I guess I have made about 4 meetings in 6 months. I have been sober over 4 years. I am having health problems so I went to a meeting because I was having trouble dealing with physical illness. I got kinda chewed out. But If I need a meeting I know where they are. And even Bill Wilson said AA doesn't have the market cornered. so I agree with you.

isnt sayin someone is a dry drunk the same as call someone who is gay a faggot or a italian a wop or a spanish person a spick. it seems a derogatory term all the same. I can choose to call my self a dry drunk all i want if the title fits but for someone else to do it is derogatory. Id say take ones own inventory and thats all thats needed

Those 'cheapo chips' you speak of...I have 4. One 24 Hour coin, one is my One Month coin, one is my One Year coin, and one is my Two Year coin. I stopped going to AA after 2 1/2 years, or I would have more.

From the day I received them, I have carried them with me proudly. They were given to me by caring AA members who knew where I came from, and they applauded me, and I felt Proud! as I do when any of them receive one! Sobriety...what an awsome achievment!

If you REALLY practice the 12 steps, then you wont struggle with sobriety for the Rest Of Your Life. That ISN'T the way the 12 steps work! Work the steps right and you will know that the struggle is OVER!

Dry Drunks... I WAS one for a while when I was sober. Made perfect sense to me why I would consider myself like that if I was still miserable while sober, and still "struggle" to stay sober and happy. Soooo, if you still struggle with this sober stuff, then maybe you ARE a "dry drunk"! Maybe you should get with your own program, and see what's wrong with it.

What was the longest you stay sober? Were you happy? I really am not trying to be a shit here! I'm seriously wondering how it's all working for you.

The 10th step promise is real
for those who do the work to realize it (BB page 85):

"We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it.
We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation.
We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutralitysafe and protected.
We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.
We are neither cocky nor are we afraid.
That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition. "

I have not read all the replies here , only the original post .
In response to the original post , I am wondering if you are taking into consideration , that maybe the people in AA are referring to someone who is sober , but doesn't have not learned any of the tools that lead them to the addiction behaviour to start with , from what I understand that is what a dry drunk is . ... someone who is not drinking but who still follows addictive patterns , just not with alchohol , someone who hasn't recovered fully .
I agree that people can be sober without going to AA , and NOT be considered a "dry drunk"......... as long as they have healed in the ways that make you whole and recognized the addictive patterns and are working on changing them .
I think AA is referring to those sober people who don't recognize that , and haven't moved beyond those attitudes .
Make sense ?

Live and let live - works for me. You are going to find judgmental people in every area of life. Most of us are very insecure when we first get sober and it takes a lot of work to overcome our self-loathing. The need to judge another's sobriety comes from our need to feel better than --- that fades when we learn to accept ourselves. How we reach self-acceptance is not something that should be open to criticism.

While I got sober in AA - I think it is an exceedingly personal matter for everyone as to how they get sober. Just an opinion.

I been to AA 3 times...I just don't care for it...I believe that it helps to some people...

hi whoo hoo
read your comment last week but then had trouble getting on site
I've been going to AA for 2 years now but i do know were your coming from some time there can be subtle pressures to live the AA way ie must have a sponsor must be on or done the steps
up to now i have done neither this kind of totalitarianism has prevented me from staying around before but this time i do whats right for me at this stage of my recovery i have had incredible support from the groups i attend and find it beneficial to help other aa,s i know friends who are pursuing sobriety in many different ways and so may i wish you peace happiness and sobriety

Hmm, Yes some need AA to stay sober, But down sizeing A "trinket" That "Trinket is earned. I am glad you have it easyer then I. No AA for you Great. But in your Angry Poo POO on you letter, You sure do sound like your throwing stix and stones at us AA memebers... It is a choice That we go, I personally don't down those who don't go.. but I stand by AA and and all it's GLORY>>

Congrats! It's great you are so focused. Glad everything is working for you!

Now can you please wash the shit outta my hair?

Anyone notice this thread died 5 weeks ago.

I agree with you to a certain extent. A.A. was good and directed me in ways that changed my life. What you are mostly commenting on I think is the judgemental aspect of some members. I have found that A.A. will not keep you sober. You can learn things that you can apply to your life that will help. Like you, I think, the time part no longer has any real significance to me. I have seen many people sober for years, but I wouldn't give a nickle for what they have.. my peace, happiness, joy, contentment and sobriety come directly from my relationship to God, and the degree to which I choose to follow and listen, and obey him. Without God I would be drinking now.