I am not bashing AA.

Dry-drunks belong in the same league as negligent parents.

It is not so much what they do as what they fail to do. They fail to carry the 12th step message to other alcoholics.
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Comparing dry-drunks to negligent parents is a non sequitur.

Parents have a responsibility because they created their children whereas dry-drunks didn't create and owe nothing to the next drunk, especially in the frame of mind they're in.

Dry-drunks have no reference point in which to know a different way of life until they have once experienced the new way of life and as such there is no onus on them to help other people.

If they hang around long enough to get big token collections then they become teachers.

Teachers should be held to a higher standard.

Kate, my hat is off to anyone who achieves and maintains sobriety. I sincerely mean that. Whether it is AA or some other method of recovery. I hear everyone of you sharing your stories and the times you succeeded and the times you've slipped and I admire you for being courageous enough to lay yourselves open like you do. That is not the easiest thing in the world to do under any circumstances! Not everyone is going to be able to work the AA program and for the ones who can, fantastic! I think what matters is that though different vehicles are being used the same destination is in sight and that is sobriety!

BTW, Diane, thank you for explaining to me the term "dry drunk" and for anyone else who offered an explanation, thank you as well. It makes sense now!

" If they hang around long enough to get big token collections then they become teachers.

Teachers should be held to a higher standard. "

Bo,

A person can get all the tokens handed to them in their hand but getting *it* mentally is another story and you know this.

It's not anyone's fault if *they don't get it*. Some are ready and some aren't and some just won't ever get it for whatever reason.

Comparing dry-drunks and their responsibility to the world to a parent's responsibility to their children is simply ridiculous.

my favorite quote is its not the time that matters but the qaulity of my life sober. I am not big on clapping ofr time or coins myself. Example I watched a guy go up to get his 2 month coin. It was very apparent that the guy was miserable and suffering from untreated alcoholism. He hadnt done the steps yet and had no sponsor as far as I could tell. To me when I saw that it really hit home how stupid it is to celebrate time in recovery when we should be celebrating if one has done the steps has recovered and has began to sponsor others as outlined in the Big Book. @ kinds of people in aa one shows others what to do and one shows others what not to do. Its up to the person to decide wich one they want to be. Thats my experience

Phil, you have no knowledge of the Big book,,, you need to get a comic book or something and try to figure it out.
~~~truly being extremely sarcastic~~~

To all Ds'ers,If you are interested in solutions for your alkie problems, Phil is a person that completely knows the AA program inside and out. If you want to get sober (through AA) and seek life changing solutions,, he is undoubtedly your man. He truly does care about the suffering alkie.

AA has changed my life,, but it is not the only source for my recovery.

Nemorino wrote:

"I have to question those statistics"

Do you have a Big book? Look at the Forward to Second Edition (page XX in 4th Edition).

These statistics were easily Verifiable when AA only had a 100 members.

Your uncle was right about the 5% figure. That is the rate that it has been since the court started ordering people to attend since the early 60's.

Wow!!! Again, I am relatively new to DS, and particularly this subgroup, but I agree with all the people who said in all their different ways that the particular mechanism one uses to achieve sobriety is not the important thing. The sobriety is.

Is not ALCOHOL the common enemy here? Are we not all waging the same war? Should we, as people who know we are alcoholics, not just be glad we're not drinking, and support each other in our endeavors not to drink?!!

I applaud every alcoholic on here who is not drinking, and I hope we can help those who are still drinking who come here looking for assistance.

MAN OH MAN! WHAT THE BLANK IS GOING ON HERE? THE MERE MENTION OF THE TERM; " DRY DRUNCK ", SERVES NO PURPOSE. YET ALL THIS DISCUSSION PROVES NOTHING. YOU EITHER STAY IN THE ROOMS OF AA, BECAUSE ITS YOUR CHOICE OR YOU LEAVE. OVER HALF IF NOT MORE OF THE PEOPLE FORCED INTO THE ROOMS OF AA HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING THER. THAT IS NOT MY OPINION, ITS THE TRUTH. THE OLD DAYS OF 12 STEP CALLS ARE FALLING TO THE WAYSIDE. THE COURTS AND TREATMENT CENTERS HAVE SWELLED THE ROOMS WITH ANYONE THEY WANT TO SEND. IT'S NOT A WONDER THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT WOULD NOT WANT THE AA WAY OF LIFE. SO WHAT! I CAN POINT MY FINGER AT ANYONE BECAUSE I HAVE THREE POINTING BACK AT ME. 17 YRS AGO I WALKED INTO THE ROOMS OF AA AND I STAYED. THAT'S MY BUSINESS AND NO ONE ELSES. I HAVE HELPED QUITE A FEW INDIVIDUALS IN THE PROCESS OF UNDERSTANDING, BUT I GOT NO ONE SOBER, NOR DID I GET THEM DRUNK. MOST OF THE NEWCOMERS COMING INTO THE ROOMS TODAY, HAVE OTHER ISSUES THAT TAKE PRESIDENCE OVER QUITTING DRINKING AND IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN TO THEM, YOU'D FIND THAT OUT. THE 12 STEPS/12 TRADITIONS ARE ONLY THE BEGINNING OF RECOVERY!

Go blow, Bo! You have no idea what we do or don't do about the 12th step.

btw the ways, folks: I was not bashing AA whatsoever. I, in fact, said many of us non-AA members do practice AA steps whether wittingly or not. I said we pretty much practice the same principles and have sobriety as a reward.

What I was bashing is non-AA members being called a drunk by AA'ers because we don't attend AA.

So who's bashing who? I see consistantly that us non AA members are constantly supporting AA members but I don't see much reciprocation going on. Quite the opposite.

LOL...give me a moment to wipe all the poo-poo off my shoe.....I have never attended an AA meeting.......but many venues are provided, some which you may not agree with.....the end goals are the same.......i opt for a watch.........a smoke.....and a gentle tap on the shoulder.

BIG HUGS whoohoo

lmao, sounds like you have alot of anger though, try anger mgmt. it works.

i tried it once mike....but the anger manager got mad at me LMAO

Well I'm not so sure I need anger management just because being called a drunk when sober pisses me off.

I think it's valid.

How would you like to be called a BB boobiehead that's white-knuckling it and need a bunch of boobieheads around you to keep you from drinking?

Rude, no?

I just really hate the term dry drunk.

I was ranting about the term. Not bashing AA whatsoever. Gawd....

I understood your post completely Whoo!!
Actually, quite a few replys told me they ALSO understood.
I was pleasantly surprised to see so many agree that as long as we quit, not matter how anyone does it, that's ALL that matters. :)
There were a few that don't agree but that's to be expected and ONE who KNOWS it ALL, (or so he thinks) but to me, I think you got to say what you needed to and got back some great replys.
This subject has been approached in other threads with a lot more "poo" :) slinging than this one and I was quite happy to read so many "positive" replys.
It may have been the people that replied or it may be that some are just more accepting than they used to be.(?)
Whatever the reason of how or why this thread stayed so calm, I found it refreshing and I thank each and everyone of them. :)