Most of the AA members forced to attend meetings are dry-drunks.
They go only for back problems; to get the courts off their back, their employer off their back or their spouse off of their back.

The problem is not so much that they keep attending AA meetings as it is that they hang around long enough to get big token collections. They then go begin to think of themselves as experts at sobriety. They carry a weak, watered down message to the newcomer who may have a more serious addiction to overcome.

These new "real alcoholics" don't get the message that they need to hear and then leave thinking that AA is a waste of time.

Good sponsors care about peoples feelings
The best sponsors care about peoples LIFE
Sometimes the good is the enemy of the best.

From my exp and what I tell the newcomer it doesn't matter how you got here and least your here and the seed is planted and its up to them to seek the solution for themselves.

Damn boleon did your mention some people think there experts?
Hmmmm

Dry drunks talk about the weakest possible solution that works for about 5% of the population.

Recovered alcoholics talk about the strongest solution available.

With "God" ALL things are possible.

Again WhooHoo~Love your post.
I'm really NOT interested on what anyone wants to call me anymore.
That's up to them.
For ANYone to say that because we quit without AA means we weren't alcoholics is something that makes me laugh out loud at though.
I have storys that would make the WORST alcoholic cringe but they're MY storys and that's one reason I don't go to AA.
I don't need to hear other's horror storys nor do I need to tell them mine in order to keep me from drinking.
I KNOW I am an alcoholic, I know and that's the only person I need to remind to keep me from ever drinking again.
Someone who said we NEED support in order to stop without AA is ALSO wrong.
This is my 15th year and have NEVER had ANY support from family or friends because they are all alcoholics.
My biggest NON-supporter was my husband (X) that I satyed with for my 1st 12 years of sobriety.
I don't struggle with this, don't recall struggling at all except for the first month and although that DOES set me apart from many, I am NOT any better than the next person.
Quitting without AA also does NOT make me better than anyone else.
I've been accused of bragging by (he knows who he is) and that is ALSO not who I am OR what I do.

It's nice and VERY refreshing to read some of these replys that are not so into their way and can except that we just chose another way. :)

Alcoholics are ALL in the same boat.
Our recovery methods are the ONLY things that set us apart.

Good luck to all who quit whatever way they choose and hope that everyone can someday agree with that statement.
It would make the ALCOHOLISM COMMUNITY (which is NOT only for people in AA) a much better place to visit. :)

wow another bust on AA....... so what?? What works for some does not work for others........... and about the chip thing........ that is something that people came upon to show the newcomer that it does work............... i don't get chips......... i feel that i have today and that is what matters................. do "dry drunks" know how to stay in the day??? i wonder..

Angegirl,

A dry drunk is someone that isn't drinking but still exhibits all of the stereotypical characteristics of a drinking drunk. It's a term created by AA people and AAers seem to think it's a problem for the most part of people that don't attend AA.

Dry-drunks are a problem even inside of AA. They send a weak, watered down message to the newcomer.

AA had a success rate of 50% to 75% before the courts started ordering people to attend meetings.

Now "hard drinkers" are in the majority in AA today and are using an "easier, softer way" to stay sober.

This is causing the real AA message (first 164 pages of the Big Book) to get mixed in with psycho-babble and AA now only helps something like 5% of it's members.

Dry-drunks are not a hazard to other dry-drunks. They are a hazard to those needing the strongest possible recovery.

Gette~
I'm LOST!!!
This post was NOT an AA bash in the LEAST!!!
(Maybe Whoo saying "AA gurus" could have just been said as "AAer's") but that was the only thing I could see as possibly upsetting you.
It was just a post explaining that there are other ways.
And to use the term "dry drunk" the way you did means you are bashing those who choose other ways than AA. (?)
Why BASH either way or ANY way for that matter?
Qutting is the goal and let's just be happy that we have (and for some, are working on it.)
Let go of the anger which I thought was one of the lessons taught in AA. (?)
I thought this was SUCH a nice list of replys with NO bashing and MUCH understanding.....

*sigh*

Bo,

How do you or does anyone know what the success rate of AA was? You know what people do what statistics? Or at least I know.

I think what's more important here is not what the success rate was before people were forced into AA but I would guess there have been people forced into AA that did actually get sober as a result of being forced into it.

It's not some *exclusive* club. You come across to me as thinking you're special or that AA was special before. It's helped many people in the past and still is.

So what exactly is the point of your thread other than to rant at individual AA members that refer to non members as sober drunks?
Regardless of the affiliation sobriety us a plus for all concerned. I have even heard fellow AA members (old timers) call normal people, earth people just because they can drink and they cant. All I know is the AA has shown me a way to live a clean sober life when all has failed. Reading examples of others that have succeeded without AA help is great, yet the common thread running through is that they had a similar result to the AA 12 step program. It only seems reasonable to follow a tried and true program rather than to reinvent the will so to speak. Just my 2 cnts

boleon,

I have to question those statistics. I say that because I had an uncle who got permanently sober in 1944 and died that way in 1978. During the 34 years in between, he was constantly active in AA, especially with making 12th step calls.

I once asked him what his success rate was with all those guys he tried to help. "One out of 20 if I'm lucky," he said. In other words, about 5%.

I am not bashing AA.

Dry-drunks belong in the same league as negligent parents.

It is not so much what they do as what they fail to do. They fail to carry the 12th step message to other alcoholics.

P. xxi, forward to the second edition, in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous....."Upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly." Just like we can't condemn a whole religion for the actions of one member, neither can you make a blanket statement like that about people in AA using one person's attitudes as a basis of wholesale condemnation. And this whole early success rate thing in the beginning, there's many other factors besides people being court ordered to be taken into account. Also, remember that for 6 months everyone Bill W. worked with ended up relapsing. He said to his wife, "Nobody's staying sober. It's not working." To which his wife replied, "But you are Bill." Just like there's identifiable signs and symptoms with alcoholism (it is a disease with visable signs and symptoms), so is there signs and symptoms of someone who really needs a drink. Restlessness, irritability, and a general discontentment with life. I don't really care how a person finds real happiness, whether it's through drinking, the steps, AA, cognitive behavioral therapy, or any other number of things that can make life better. Hopefully a person can find happiness and sobriety(if that's what they desire). 5 people leave on donkeys going up a mountain. They all take different routes and get there at the same time. Does it really matter which route they took, especially since the view is exactly the same?

Bo,

I was under the impression that you got into trouble with the law due to your drinking and were forced to get help.

If that's so, then you're one of those people you speak of that were forced but it ended up helping you.......or it appears so.....maybe.

"Doubtful" is the word.
If his AA meetings are teaching him things like...
"Dry-drunks belong in the same league as negligent parents."
they're not doing a very good job of helping him at all.