Everyone has the right to get sober however works for them.

Science shows that the brain undergoes fundamental changes after prolonged drinking. Whether this is a disease model or not is open to interpretation.

Some people get sober the first try. Others can take years of trying to finally get sober.

I am not here to pass judgment on how someone gets and stays sober. It takes what it takes.

You are right BS just your opinion.

Many out there agree and disagree. Those on the is a disease are organisations like WHO, psychiatric boards, medical boards; very learned people.

So what does this to mean to me?? For me the importance for me is not whether it is or not a disease but how I use my beliefs to stay sober. I would rather be sober in a falsehood that it is a disease than being a drunk knowing it wasn't a disease.

At the end of the day I can keep going around in circles in a lot what is or isn't, or I can just move forward in my belief.

G8 waffling

OK, I can understand that stance and I hope you can understand my position as well. If it works best for some alcohol addicts to believe they have a disease called alcoholism, then so be it for them. Like Marion Cooper said: "It takes what it takes". I can live with that.

Cheers, BS

I agree with most of what you said - it is NOT an excuse to keep drinking because you feel like you have no choice.
Whether it is a disease or not, that's a non-issue to me. Doesn't matter what "label" you put on it it's all cured the same way and owner-ship and self-control IS a part of that cure.
I do take issue (minorly...lol) with the word "simple" (you stated "it's as SIMPLE as stopping the ingestion of alcohol"). Meh.......not so simple for some people. I guess it all depends how deep the wounds are that keep some people drunk. Again, that's not an excuse to continue on drinking, but it is harder for some than for others to dig out those issues, rectify them, and move on.
Peace:)
Jen

Here are a couple of articles to explain where, when and why the disease concept became widely embraced....at the end of the first article click on " here " to see more historical info on why.....I got sober with more of a spiritual slant on understanding it as a human being and how it effected me second hand as the child of a Alcoholic and co- dependent long before I had a drink.

After getting sober the science helped tie together the loose ends connected to the emotional toil I needed to address based on a lot unresolved issues not connected to my drinking accept through exposure to Alcoholism as a child and what that gave me as a yard stick to my emotional make up...

I feel real fortunate I've tried to take in the whole picture and how it effected me....with out trying to white wash it only in terms of Alcoholism or a disease to try and explain it all after I got sober....Just dont drink and stay open to the possibilities is what I heard from the people I got sober with AA:))))

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/02/mrs-marty-mann-and-the-early-medicalization-of-alcoholism/252286/

that's not necessarily only connected to my drinking accept through exposure to Alcoholism as a child and what that gave me as a yard stick to my emotional make up by the time i began to use Alcohol!!!

BS, what is the point of your post, to talk about alcoholism being or not bring a disease or to back door your way into trashing AA?

I agree with you Gr8ful, perfectly said in very few words.

Without AA I know I would not be sober today. I have had two sponsors and have consistently been going to meetings for over 4 years, meetings in different parts of town and different cities, and meetings are not focused on us having a disease, meetings are about not drinking. Also God and religion are not the focus of meetings either.

People trying to creatively push their personal agenda in this forum in very uncreative ways gets very tiresome. I feel bad for new people who just join this forum who get the wrong idea of our goal which is to in any way possible, just not drink for one more day.

It really is that simple. This is a support group, not an agenda pushing group.

Hmmmmmm...........Guess I am missing something here as I did not take BS's post as "bashing" AA? In the same sense that many respect the choice and are supportive of the posts promoting AA, I guess the converse needs to be true - we have to be likewise minded about people who choose not to go that route in their sobriety.

I haven't been around here for all that long so maybe I am missing something....lol. All I know is that I agree with marion......I respect whatever means it takes to get, and keep, someone sober. Whether it's my personal way or not is irrelevant.

Forrest Freak,

I used the term "simply" because I believe the answer (cure?) to what some people call alcoholism is quite simple; stop ingesting it ("plug the jug"). That certainly does not mean to imply that it is easy to stop. After 45 years of nearly daily and often heavy alcohol use it was not easy for me to radically change my lifestyle as it relates to consuming alcohol.

My main point in this thread is that for some alcohol addicts it might be counterproductive for them to consider their addiction a disease. It might actually make it more difficult for them to quit if they think they have an (ill defined) disease that they somehow contracted over the course of their lives. Or worse, they believe they are genetically predisposed to become alcohol addicts.

I am not trying to sway those who firmly believe they are diseased or genetically different. If believing that helps to keep you sober you should probably keep believing it. Like it was stated by someone else earlier, "it takes what it takes" to become and stay sober. Use the method that works for you.

whoda -- I dunno, but I think you are reading more into Buck's discussion than is there.

In my early days of sobriety I spent a lot of time thinking about and discussing with others whether alcoholism is a disease or not. It was really important to me. If it was a disease, then maybe I had no control and I could never beat it. If It was an addiction, then I could beat it. I spent a lot of time debating this with Christine and Anna and in this forum. Figuring this out and being clear on it helped me get and stay sober.

I don't think this is a bash on AA but an exploration on different ways to think about what this is all about.

BS they say TimE can only loosen your convictions, unless your are only attached to a particular Outcome....fools gold looks like gold until you analyze all the properties for yourself...cryptic but not condescending Ok:))))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7RbZNT5A2A

Billy

I don't care nor am I perturbed at how other people view alcoholism. Gradually I have moved away from this need to know what came first, chicken or egg. I just accept that I am one of millions who cannot drink alcohol and have made a commitment to doing just that.

I once asked my counselor this very same question and he told me that alcoholism is a disease because it can be diagnosed and treated.

The following explains it much better then I can:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism


God Bless!

Whoda Thunk,

I am not pushing my "agenda" or trying to bash AA. That is not fair and you know it. Yes, I do not agree with all of what AA stands for and teaches in regards to the alcohol addiction, but that does not mean I think AA is wrong for everyone. I am only offering some alternatives to consider. After all, if 95% of the people who attend AA for the first time are gone after the first year, then perhaps there is some room for improvement in their approach?

If anyone does not want to discuss this topic, there is a very simple solution. Just hit the "Stop Watching this Topic" button. Otherwise, I would appreciate people not implying that I have some mission to destroy AA. I actually have a very close personal friend who is a huge AA supporter and we have these types of discussions all the time.

A mob mentality normally reacts off emotion oppression ...Not necessarily a Total recall based on facts!! That causes challenging your beliefs or opinions !!!:))))