Mike is buried in our hometown, 500 miles away from me, so when his body was flown to the parish that we got married in, the young priest didn't know him at all. He made it a point to visit my mother-in-law's house to get to know us as time allowed, and we had a wonderful conversation and ended up choosing readings and songs. He suggested that we informally share stories at a designated time during the wake instead of having eulogies during the funeral mass, and I was very relieved. We ended up forming a circle at the wake and as the stories flowed, people began to relax as we celebrated Mike's life. Then at the mass, I was thrilled to hear the priest tell a story about Mike that I had mentioned in passing during our conversation at the MIL's house. It felt like we had never left the parish. So my advice to the seminarians is to go above and beyond to get to know the family if they aren't from the church and to give them choices within their comfort zone. Good topic!

You are very brave. I did not find any comfort from my Church. I did find most comfort from the Hospice that cared for my husband the last few weeks of his life. I am a member of the Cathloic Church and my husband was not. Maybe that is the reason why. Even thought I was a memeber of the parish who gave a weekly monetary offering, I was charged ($350.00) for a Mass in the small chapel on the side that was said for his intention, but was mainly for me and the children and his father. No, I only found comfort in my Faith, and knowing Our Lord has been with us and never left our side.
I think you are doing a wonderful thing and maybe will open up the eyes of the Church....maybe they will see where they are lacking.

I will share my frustrations with my church during my husband's funeral. I am Catholic, my husband was not. I attended mass and we had our son baptized in the Catholic church. My husband was Lutheran but had not been to church since he was a kid except when he went with me a few times. We lived in a very small town where everyone knows everyone. My husband was friendly with our priest. My husband loved to fish but we always had too much to eat ourselves so he often shared it with our priest, sometimes weekly when the fishing was good. Anyway, so when it was time to choose where the funeral would be held, I wanted it in the Catholic church for all the above reasons. The priest at first refused the service because my husband was not catholic. He then recanted after talking to his superiors as they do allow funerals for those of other faiths if their surviving spouse is catholic.

I went with my mother to meet with the priest to go over the service and choose readings etc. I sat for an hour with the priest listening to him talk about the choices he has of where to be buried. He went on and on about each of his old parishes want him buried there etc. I am a very young widow, at the age of 31. All I wanted to do was meet with him, get all the info i needed and go back to my family.

Next he proceeds to tell me that this really isn't a funeral. It's a prayer service and he will not add it to his papers that he served over a funeral. He made it very clear that this was NOT a funeral because my husband was NOT catholic. I understand that each faith has their own set of rules, but do not put that on a new widow. He wouldn't have had to tell me anything. I wouldn't have known the difference.

I chose that church because it was my church, my faith, and my husband had a personal connection with the priest. But after that I felt like my husband was treated like someone off the street.

I have now finally after a year, returned to that church and only because the priest was replaced.

I was not so much angry at God for my loss, but at the priest and church for how my husband, even after death was treated.

Please pass along this story, so no other widow or widower has to go through the extra pain of being treated poorly while planning a funeral.

As part of a religious community, I will offer my take on this. Tell the seminarians not to pile all the widows into one basket. We are all diferent. My priest back in Illinois is a great person, but was lacking in knowledge when time came for Todd's funeral. He had no idea of military funerals. Tell the seminarians to get in touch with our personal lives; get to know us. Learn about our different needs as a widow, and support both the older and the younger. We younger ones have a harder time finding support. We don't want to be told time heals and we will find someone else. peace...Kaaren

I have to comment on this the Pastor who did Barrys service knew me and my sis in law because we went there. He did not know Barry because I never could get him to go. I received a lot of support from this church. I still get cards every month from them and the other congregants are always asking me how I am. I have no complaints about my church.

The following are simply my experiences and are my opinion. I think that every church is different and has different strengths and weaknesses. It is not a reflection of lthe whole and I do not want the whole church to be judged or even mine for that matter.


POSITIVES
The one thing that touched me is when those in my church simply grieved with me. At this time all the cliche's in the world are not going to offer very much comfort at all. Tears and hugs do.

NEGATIVES
Do not offer to help or to get together unless you mean it. It is not enough to say: "call me if you need anything" or "we should get together soon" unless you are prepared to follow through. I have learned that most of these offers are empty. It would mean a lot to me if somebody would phone and ask what they could do to help me TODAY and to know that they mean to follow through. It would be ever so nice if somebody phoned and invited me out for coffee at a specific time and to know that it is because they want to and not because they feel it is their duty. There is a difference between pity and compassion. We as a church need to learn the difference. Compassion draws. Pity repels.

At a lot of times through our journey we just don't have the umph to initiate and we will not phone and ask for help. By people being wishy washy in this way, we are left to feel that we really don't matter, that we are nothing without our spouse. I think that it is cruel even though I am sure that these people do not mean to be so. It hurts and wounds a wounded person.

I think that unless this type of a ministry is not organized, it just does not really happen. My own pastor gives our congregation a fail in it's care for the widows in any special way. I guess I am not trying to lay any blame here but I do think about it and try to understand why we are not doing a very good job at simply caring and helping. I think that if nobody is taking leadership in this area, ministry just is not going to happen. Everybody thinks the next guy is going to do something.

For a time, in my church, I felt invisible, very marginalized and disconnected. I am not sure if this was due to where I was in my head at the time or if people really could not deal with their own fears, their own grief or if it was just in my head. At one point I was considering of finding a new church home. There was a difference in how I was being treated that I did not expect.

I decided to stay the coarse with my congregation and I am glad for the decision. Things are getting better but so am I. I am able now to initiate again and be present for others. We lose that for a time. It is at that time when we are so helpless the we need the arms of our churches to help hold us up and their hands to help. Talk is cheap Actions mean everything. Those actions touch the soul. They minister Christ to us.

I guess it can boil down to the attitude of a church. Are they going to be the hands of Christ to a hurting world.

I have been thinking of sitting down with my pastor and talking about this. Earlier I felt I was just to confused, foggy, emotional and lost in grief to make any sense or to be able to be objective. I am now thinking that if he gives us a fail in this area, maybe it is something that should be brought out into the open and positive direction given and that we can grow.

I think that what you are doing is very good. Thank you for asking for our take on this. You will do fantastic. You are a very thoughtful and articulate woman. I would love to be able to attend your class.

Tom was asked to do a similar kind of talk for the doctors, nurses and staff of a local hospital. It was to help them better understand how to deal with someone who is dying, how to talk about death to the dying and their families - and they wanted Tom because he was a scientist who had written extensively about is cancer and his treatment and approaching death. This was part of a formal program called the Schwartz Rounds. http://www.theschwartzcenter.org/

Tom did this a week before his death and although it was very difficult physically for him, it was a very moving and effective talk. The feedback from his audience - not all of whom agreed with his views by any means - was wonderful. And Tom thought it a fitting and appropriate end to his professional career. I'm sure the overnight trip and strain of giving the talk shortened his life by a week or a month, but he would not have traded the time for the talk. After his death I heard again from several of the audience about how his talk changed the way they will live their lives and treat their patients.
I'd suggest having a look at the Schwartz site. It is trying to do the same sorts of things you are and is very fine. Good luck!

Trish, sorry I missed this thread - I have been a bit preoccupied! My church has been good. The pastor visited Kathy when she was ill, came with us to the hard diagnostic meeting, and we were visited regularly when she declined. The pastor visited as she lay dying. The grief part, when all was said and done however, as you know, is largely up to you. There have been some very kind folks whose compassion and understanding goes beyond the norm. The pastor gets on with his pastoring and everyone does their thing, and you are left to cope........ alone. I think my pastor conspired to get me out of my shell by having me lead a Bible study group of young marrieds. That was very curative for me, as they asked and commented prayed and encouraged me. Another family in the church invited me around fortnightly for dinner for over a year. I found this so helpful, it was the highlight of my week for a long time (and I told them so). I know these are small things, but they meant much to me. There are so few concrete and meaningful things others can do, as you just have to learn to live alone and cope. And it is so personal. Connection with other widow/ers is helpful also and there are two widows at church I chat with. Bless your work. John

The most hurtful thing I have had to deal with is the comparison almost EVERYONE makes between my grief and my MIL's grief.

My MIL has lost both her children and her husband since 2007. I admire her tremendously and she is a true inspiration.... she is NOT the problem.

Almost always when someone comments on the loss of my husband, they end their comment with, "but think what poor C. has suffered."

The comment always makes me fell like my grief and loss is somehow insignificant next to hers. And that I don't deserve to feel the pain that I do. Every time I hear the comment it breaks my heart a little.

Tell the group not to compare anyone's loss to anothers. Each is unique and painful.

the grief support group that I'm attending is held at a church, I've never attended this church, don't know any of the people that go there and probably never will attend but they are being supportive, kind, considerate...it is kind of a learning process as this is their first time of doing this. The biggest thing we came up with: 1. people don't talk about the deceased or say their name, (it's like they are afraid to say their name or talk about them but when my daughter died no one said anything about her, it was like she never existed...only to me) 2. people don't have to say a thing; just listen to what the widow/widower is saying, 3. if the widow/widower is crying try not to get too emotional or embarrassed by their crying, just let them cry, touch their shoulder or arm and tell them it's all right. 4. don't give the old cliches: they're not in pain anymore, they're in a better place, it's God will/plan etc. (in my heart and mind I knew this all ready, but to hear others saying the same thing over and over ticked me off) 5. don't offer to do anything if you are not willing to follow through with it. I'd rather not have someone tell me they'll call me and then they never do as I'm sitting by the phone waiting for it to ring. 6. just be a friend....all this is only opinions......

TJ,

I think what you are doing can really help others. Thank you.

I'm one of those that was disappointed by MY church minister and my church family. My advice is from where I am today- looking back with a little less emotions. I felt so abandoned by God. I felt like the church abandoned me too. I felt that the lack of visits was a definite sign that they didn't care, were not praying. How can you be praying if you never go to the person who needs the prayers?

Then when prayers are not answered, many of us go thru a horrible time dealing with the silence of God. I couldn't pray. I wanted someone to come and sit with me and pray with me. It didn't happen. I didn't want lectures about heaven and how much better Dick is now. I wanted someone to just listen to me, let me cry and hold my hand while I cried. I didn't want someone to fix it or make it better because it's not possible.

I found it on a widowed persons retreat. Someone that finally allowed me to say - I'm angry at God - and it's ok to be angry. That's all - it's ok to just be what ever I was and if it's being angry, that was ok. It's ok to grieve, it's ok to weep, wail, it's ok to do whatever. We sang songs of lamenting, not songs of joy.

One thing that many people do not get is that not all of us can tolerate the songs. At my last grief support meeting we talked about this very thing. How hard music is to many of us. Songs of joy, praise songs, Amazing Grace - can almost flatten a person who is grieving. When the minister is Always being "cheerful and La La La" when your world has crashed, you just can't handle it.

Mostly listen, listen and listen. Go visit, sit and listen. You don't need a boat load of scripture, you just need the ears God gave you.

thanks for asking - I hope someone listens.

Dear TJ,
I cannot understand how or why that I have heard many others from this and other online-grief support groups chastise counselors and groups that they have found, some mentioned their local Church and/or Hospice, were to be insensitive, uncaring and didn't get the help they needed, which is so very unfortunate.

In my case, I attend both the weekly Grief support meetings (for anyone) and the Widow meetings who meets only once a month that the Hospice that was under my husband's care, have become my whole world to me. After this Hospice gave my husband a dignified choice of staying at home when his time came and everything was taken care of for him, they gave me the privilege of being my husband's primary caregiver, and then they automatically continued with my needs after my husband passed away. Even though I am still grieving after 9 months, the hope and strength and support they provide for me and the other attendees have helped me enormously. They are very caring, loving individuals who run these meetings, and I am fortunate for my personal therapist who the Hospice bereavement counselor found for me. Others say that they went to their local church grief meeting which was only run by other widows and felt more depressed after leaving, were ostracized, very hurt, and humiliated by the remarks and comments of their grieving peers. I am replying to you because it is in my opinion that it would be very appropriate for any meeting which someone embarks upon opening, should be led by an official bereavement counselor, either from Hospice or those with experience in the field. I am always shocked and dumbfounded when I hear of others who have not had an experience with Hospice as I have.

The Hospice Group in Randolph, MA to me is a humble yet proud example of how meetings should be run, by those who allow the members to share their feelings, and support one another with some guidelines because of their own background, education and knowledge of this subject of a loved one/spouse's death. I can't stress enough how it is so important to have a leader, we have 2 one is an assistant who both really care and understand what it is like for how we each go through our individual pathway of healing. I am indebted to this Hospice and would hope anyone derives the strength to go on living that they have provided to our group's members.

With this group it is okay to not say anything if we are new, it is okay to cry, it is okay to share our deepest, darkest feelings without being judged, but to be held in respect. We even have laughter, should someone have light moments to share. I just thought I'd pass along my observations.

If my answer was not what you were asking, I would be glad to provide any other information that would be beneficial to you. Please feel free to ask. I don't mind talking about what I'm going through if it would be a help, because not only does it help me to talk about it, I feel at a loss as to how I can be a real help to anyone going through what I believe is the most traumatic emotional experience that anyone could ever have. I never knew I would feel like this. So, I would really like to help if I could.
God bless you in your endeavors.
ReneeArose

Let the family be as involved as they would like in planning the funeral. I chose who would speak, what scripture I wanted included, what songs I wanted and who I wanted to sing them ,basically every detail. I wanted the funeral be to warm and personal like my husband. It gave me something to focus on and I felt I was honouring my husband. I could feel the pastor got his feathers ruffled but you know what it wasn't about him.
My husband was really involved and gave so much of himself to the church. I worked Sundays and rarely attended. When i got Sundays off, shortly before my husband died, we had been trying out different churches as the church my husband attended was not my style. I think there was resentment towards me over this. I went to a bible study where one woman told me the woman's group was praying for me whereby another woman announced, " No were not, We're praying for David's mother" I was speechless so she repeated it just in case I missed it the first time. I also received a card with the sinners prayer on it from some lovely soul.Really brightened my day.

All of the posts are so on the mark for knowledge to be passed on in your speaking engagement. Nice to have such a wealth of learned knowledge we've garnered from this journey and what many of us still have yet to go on. (me!) If I heard one more time "How strong you are." I know that I would have chocked. It seems that if people don't see you falling apart they just breathe a sigh of relief and leave you be. Completely agree about the 'If there is anything I can do....call me." The judging of grieving by those who have never had a loss is amazingly shallow. Some mean well just have no idea what to do...others just want to look the part of a caring person or 'good' Christian. Ugh. The line that kept coming to mind, while I was 'drowning' in dealing with his illness and death, was from the movie "As good as it gets".... Jack Nicholson says: "I'm drowing here. And you're describing the water." Sums up the poor attempts that are made to comfort, criticize and clean it up nicely to move on...nice a neat job. Wrapped in all the pat sayings and shallow offers of help. I felt abandoned by my church as my pastor was on sabbatical and though in town could not do the service and was the only one that even knew Mike..the asst. pastor just wanted me to change the date I wanted to do the service because there was a wedding later that day. Thankfully they got back to me and were speaking in a 'yes' attitude later. I planned and organized all so less of a burden on their day...but have gotten only invitations to get involved in ministry services..which I've been able to force myself to do but it would mean sooo much more to hear the phone ring or knock on the door. Definitely feel invisible. :( May your speech be blessed and inform and grow all in their service.

I can't say enough about the support we received from Hospice - both for myself, my family, and of course my husband. This organization is a remarkable non-profit. They are funded by private donations, and also, for the care of the dieing they receive monies from the persons insurance, and if they don't have medical insurance, they are covered as well. This goes beyond immediate care - I was able to receive one on one counseling, I received information, and attended group sessions, and more importantly received phone and written contact. I took their training course in order to volunteer for them. They need lots of volunteers patient related and if that's too hard - fund raising - thrift shops - patient records, etc. Please let them know that such an organization is out there, and willing to help. I'm not sure, but I venture to guess that it's not necessary to have had a loved one in Hospice to receive their services. Even the literature is fantastic, and the people are true professionals. They even had a Hospice doggy -'' Leo '' who visited my husband. He was in a coma, but I'm sure he felt Leo's love.