Resurrection After Rape Community Group
Discussion, question-and-answer, general social support, and journal processing for progress-oriented rape survivors. No crisis, no damaging or triggering conflicts--this is for individuals who want to contribute to collective, cooperative action toward the goal of making actual PROGRESS through rape trauma. Much of this work is based on the book "Resurrection After...
I've been thinking about some of the spiritual questions that are often confronted during recovery from betrayal trauma (such as rape, abuse, domestic violence). One of the questions that a lot of survivors seem to have is how to manage their hatred toward their perpetrator, especially if they have been indoctrinated to believe that hate is sinful or wicked. How, they wonder, can I love God and hate my perpetrator? Will God condemn me for hating someone? How can I love a God who loves the person who violated me?
These are crucial questions, and something tells me that the streamlined "God loves everyone and you should too" answers aren't sufficient. I think we need to explore a more mature, more thoughtful, and more honest theology of God, justice, hate, and love. I am not calling for a new endorsement of "holy hate", but I do think survivors deserve much better answers to these questions.
I'd really appreciate input from diverse spiritual starting points, including multiple Christian perspectives (fundamentalist, liberal, Catholic, Protestant), Jewish, Muslim, Indigenous (tribal), and even "undefined" spiritual beliefs.
Here are my religious stuck points:
If God brings us into interconnection with all life ("Gakina Awiiya"), are we forced to acknowledge that this connection also includes our perpetrators?
I have heard that "God loves everyone." If that is so, it includes perpetrators of betrayal trauma. How can that be? Is there an answer more sophisticated than the old "love the sinner/hate the sin" slogan, which just seems insufficient to me?
Does the holiness of God somehow diminish if we perceived God as being capable of hating, say, a child abuser or incest perpetrator?
If God DOESN'T hate them, what positive message can God still offer the survivor? How can I truly see God on "my side" (if I am a victim), if God seems to have tolerance and grace for my perpetrator?
Is "hate" perhaps the wrong word? Has it become too poisoned by things like bigotry, cruelty, and misogyny to use here? If "hate" is not the right word, what word does describe God's feelings toward perpetrators and rapists?
I'm not asking people to answer all of these like an essay exam; these are just MY starting stuck points. I'd like to hear your beliefs, though. Respect for all who are willing to divulge their private spiritual discernment here!
These are crucial questions, and something tells me that the streamlined "God loves everyone and you should too" answers aren't sufficient. I think we need to explore a more mature, more thoughtful, and more honest theology of God, justice, hate, and love. I am not calling for a new endorsement of "holy hate", but I do think survivors deserve much better answers to these questions.
I'd really appreciate input from diverse spiritual starting points, including multiple Christian perspectives (fundamentalist, liberal, Catholic, Protestant), Jewish, Muslim, Indigenous (tribal), and even "undefined" spiritual beliefs.
Here are my religious stuck points:
If God brings us into interconnection with all life ("Gakina Awiiya"), are we forced to acknowledge that this connection also includes our perpetrators?
I have heard that "God loves everyone." If that is so, it includes perpetrators of betrayal trauma. How can that be? Is there an answer more sophisticated than the old "love the sinner/hate the sin" slogan, which just seems insufficient to me?
Does the holiness of God somehow diminish if we perceived God as being capable of hating, say, a child abuser or incest perpetrator?
If God DOESN'T hate them, what positive message can God still offer the survivor? How can I truly see God on "my side" (if I am a victim), if God seems to have tolerance and grace for my perpetrator?
Is "hate" perhaps the wrong word? Has it become too poisoned by things like bigotry, cruelty, and misogyny to use here? If "hate" is not the right word, what word does describe God's feelings toward perpetrators and rapists?
I'm not asking people to answer all of these like an essay exam; these are just MY starting stuck points. I'd like to hear your beliefs, though. Respect for all who are willing to divulge their private spiritual discernment here!
of my book typos even more embarrassing. Plus, she has a lot of good insights like this one. I am SO earning points today! :)
what a special lady :]...count your lucky stars Matthew
"If God brings us into interconnection with all life ("Gakina Awiiya"), are we forced to acknowledge that this connection also includes our perpetrators?"
I guess I never really had an issue with this one. I didn't have a hard time acknowledging that my rapists were human beings, and to me, all human beings were created by God. If i believe that I was, I have to believe that they were, or I emotionally and logically contradict myself. It doesn't mean that I have to like it, though. But to me, there is no other way to look at it other than my rapists and I are all "related" (but i don't like that word in this situation) because we were created by God.
"I have heard that "God loves everyone." If that is so, it includes perpetrators of betrayal trauma. How can that be? Is there an answer more sophisticated than the old "love the sinner/hate the sin" slogan, which just seems insufficient to me?"
I don't think that God is capable of hate. The basic fundemental belief of all Christians is that God is good. Not, God does good things, not God loves good people, but that in His very nature, he is the definition OF good. Hate is not "good", hate does not bring peace, nor good things. So no, I do not believe that God is capable of the HUMAN version of the word hate. I have struggled to wrap my brain around the concept of describing God's emotions. Can we use our language to describe God's feelings? The answer for me, is no. We can use our word, "hate", and imagine what God might be feeling, but we will never know the answer to that. Can God hate my rapists? Who knows. No one ever will, that will be between them and God at some point...but I know that God "hates" what they did to me because he blatantly states it. My religion blatantly states it. so to me, the "love the sinner/hate the sin" "slogan" is not insufficient. NOW, this doesn't mean, to me, that I am under any obligation to LOVE (in the human description of the word) my rapists. To me, to "love an enemy" is to repay bad with good. Not to repay bad with good directly towards them...I'd chop my hands off before walking up to any of those men and shaking their hands in peace, but it DOES mean that I have the power to do good inspite of their evil. I do things for others, I work towards MY healing, which in turn works on my relationship with God. And for me, I know that me working on my relationship with God is more of a concern of His than me working on my "relationship" with my rapists.
Does the holiness of God somehow diminish if we perceived God as being capable of hating, say, a child abuser or incest perpetrator?
No, I don't believe so. If one believes that God is capable of "hate", I guess that could mean that he loves more fiercly His non-wayward children. You don't hate something, or someone, who hasn't done you wrong, or someone that you love wrong. Hate is triggered by an intense and passionate sense of betrayal, which in my understanding would elevate the level of God's holiness. I realize I contradict myself here and in my last response, but I do not believe God is capable of hate, as we understand it. But if He were, as some people believe, I don't think it in anyway diminishes His holiness.
If God DOESN'T hate them, what positive message can God still offer the survivor? How can I truly see God on "my side" (if I am a victim), if God seems to have tolerance and grace for my perpetrator?
This is probably the biggest issue I have had since personally sorting out my relationship with God since I was first raped, and I am in no way close to being done talking to Him about it...but I think, what I understand so far, is that God doesn't need to offer me more positive message than what I already have from Him. The Beattitudes, my Catechism, all speak to the sincere love and compassion and support that God offers victims of any kind. I take this as truth, because to me there is no other option, it is biblical truth, and to me, that is the end. But that doesn't mean I haven't questioned it, gotten seriously pissed off about it, and yelled at Him about it...on numerous, NUMEROUS occasions.
*quoted from the CCC* 2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.
The Beattitudes:
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)
These are promises, straight from the lips of God, that I take to heart. I read them for comfort, I cry over them for understanding, and I scream over them when I feel like they are not being fulfilled as they should be. But, they are what I believe in.
Is "hate" perhaps the wrong word? Has it become too poisoned by things like bigotry, cruelty, and misogyny to use here? If "hate" is not the right word, what word does describe God's feelings toward perpetrators and rapists?
Yes, wrong word. I think of it as the worst kind of betrayal feeling that I as a human could possibly imagine. How could God not feel betrayed (hurt, saddened, angry, confused) by the turning away of a person or people that he has created in His image? I stumbled upon the discovery that perhaps God is feeling much of what I am feeling, betrayed, hurt, angry, confused, saddened.
I really don't HAVE any other stuck points than those, which is why I just went off of Matt's, but I'm sure I'll add if I can think of more.
* Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
* Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
* Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
* Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
* Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."
From those verses, it would seem that God hates abusers and violent perpetrators. So what do we make of this?
What I wonder about a book of this nature trying to make one God for everyone is that's its going to be virtually impossible. I don't like to look at God as a he/she, a separate entity of any kind that I will ever see in this lifetime. That I will ever have proof of in this life. Now don't everybody,including the Catholics jump all over me for this but I don't believe in a separate God. God is me, God is Laura, God is Matt, God is Kardy, God is Carmen, Tonya, Leitha, Stephanie, Karen, God is my husband....etc. God is what we choose to do in our life that reflects the teaching of what Jesus did while he was on the earth. We just do it in a much more modern way. It's how we live our lives, it's how we act towards our fello man, it's how we treat all of humanity.
RELIGION is how we decide to public honor our Godly-ness. Catholics do it with the Catholic way, Methodist the Methodist way, so on and so forth. It's not that I don't believe in the rituals I partake in week after week, I do, I also believe that my athiest friend could come with me to mass and partake in the body and blood of christ and not be struck down, nor disrespecting the faith. What she would be doing is partaking in a belief ritual that she could in turn adopt should she choose. I know what the difference between the certain religions of the host and the wine...one says it 'symbolizes' the body and blood of christ and the other say's it "IS" the body and blood of christ. I know this is a huge distinction for those that are educated in the religious faith and life, but I believe that those educated folks are far and few between and I like to think that the intent in my heart, my "peasant" knowledge of the faith, is adequate to be a faithful, spiritual person. And my actions and choices in my daily life is proof of that......not me showing up at church once a week and taking communion. For what's acknowledging something is the body and blood of christ and accepting it, then turn around and live your life in a manner that would sadden Jesus, God and all the apostles, which ALOT of people of all different faiths do.
Do the right thing. Take care of your neighbor. Extend your kindness and your gifts where you can. Share in the privledges bestowed on to you. You can quit waiting for God to answer all your questions and create the answers for yourself...using RAR, Matt, others who have the knowledge you don't and the existing faith/spirituality you already have. I believe that it's then that the 'answers' will come to you. (the last two sentencing were referencing rape recovery)
Just my thoughts.
Do you think our rapists are spititual / religious people? I honestly don't think so, it just makes no sense to me.
I teach Forensic Science, and one of the units we do is about serial killers. There is a very high percentage of them, after they are caught and are incarcerated, that become pastors, or clergy. I find this interesting. I suppose sitting in jail forces you to think about your actions. I wonder if the same would be true for our rapists?
Matt, how can one not understand Orlando Bloom? :P
I believe in God. I believe God to be a Heavenly being....part of the Trinity, in which I also believe, and admit to meager attempts at understanding. I believe in God the Father...in Jesus Christ, His only Son, and in the Holy Spirit. I believe that God is, was, and forever shall be....God will not die. I believe God created the world, and every living thing in it...so...I guess I believe in God as the Creator, as native religions refer to.
I believe God certainly owns the ability to hate. I believe God's hatred is completely foreign to us...and embodies the emotion quite differently than we are able to. I believe hatred by God, toward evil is God showing Man HOW we should ACT when hatred is warranted. BUT.....it didn't end with the emotion...or a reaction to the emotion. God went one step farther and sent us Himself...in human form...a voice from Heaven...and He named that voice Jesus. I believe everything changed when Jesus was sent to us. I even believe hate changed...and our responsibility regarding hate changed.
I believe, when Christ came to Man, the message was intended to be love. He showed love...lived it as a lifestyle. But, even Christ reacted to the actions of others in ways some would take offense to. Christ got angry. He was angry for a just cause. So....if we are to use Christ as our supreme example of how to live as God would have us live, then...can we not also get angry? I believe we can. I believe we should. I believe we are told to be angry and sin not, so....I believe anger is a gift from God.
But, anger doesn't explain hate does it? So, if we are to be angry and sin not...and hate is a sin....did we deduce that yet??? The thing about hate being a sin, I mean...is hate a sin? Yes, I suppose it is. SO, that decided (by me only)...then I believe I am directed to "be angry - but hate not".
I do not believe I hate my rapists. I hate what has happened to my life from the effects of what they did to me, but, I cannot say that I hate them. I can admit that I have wanted to hate them, but...I do another thing the Bible says....and this one I am not exactly sure how to take, but I fear the Lord. I have had problems with the literal essence of that word..'fear'...but, here at least I think it means to 'revere'....to 'acknowledge with respect and awe'...not to be afraid of. This is NOT how I was taught..it is how I came to believe. I was taught to be afraid of God because if you don't do as He says...God's gonna get you and send you straight to Hell to burn for eternity. That is NOT the attributes of a loving God, not by a long shot.
Matt asked how we reconcile to God in regard to our rape...our rapists being God's creation too, and I would have to say, I feel it necessary for me to be able to let them be...whatever they choose to be in their lives....I have to take responsibility for ME. I have to live the best I can, in spite of what they did. I have to realize that where they spend eternity....not up to me. I have to realize that the greatest gift I can give myself, or my family is me...in the best possible frame of mind that I can be. I cannot be that person with a hate-filled heart. So Matt, I resolve to let them out of the place I have held them for so many years. It hasn't harmed them in the least, but it has brutalized my spirit for far too long. I resolve to release them to God. God can, and will, deal with them as He sees fit. If that means He draws them near, cradles them in His warm embrace, and escorts them to Heaven..despite what they have done....then I have to ask, what will God do with me when it is my time? You see, I believe He will do the exact same thing for me. How could I want more? If in the end...despite the ills I have suffered...if, when my time comes, God brings me into Heaven as one He loves and holds close to His heart, what will I care of those who harmed me in this life?
So, I believe in God. I believe God knows and loves His children...yes, I use the children and Father phrasing...it is how I can understand it. I believe God can, and does forgive sin...even horrific sin like rape. In the end of this life, when I take my final breath, I believe God's grace is so special, that breath will not harbor the memory of a little girl brutalized. I will breathe in one final time....and exhale in Heaven. The pain of this life will be no longer a memory. I know to some this sounds like a Fairy Tale, or wishful thinking. Maybe so. But, it is what I believe.
Yes, God loves me...and you....and I believe He even loves 'them'. But, while they are actively doing their evil...THEY create a separation from that love. So....I suppose in this light, I believe we are all related....but, I have cousins I haven't seen in 30 years...related? Yes. IN a RELATIONSHIP? Quite another thing.
I have to wonder....if we try to change..or replace the word hate here, are we really doing ourselves any good? I know the Bible talks about a person being "lukewarm", and how that is not a good thing. In fact, it says that "It would be better to be hot or cold"...to be lukewarm would cause you to be spewed out of His mouth. So, are we creating a 'lukewarm' emotion of sorts, if we try to alter the work 'hate' to reflect an attitude we believe suitable for a loving God?
I know that it is explained that good and evil cannot reside in the same 'temple'. That fresh water cannot come from an unlean well is a way of explaining that idea. So, is that saying that love and hate cannot be present in the same vessel? What about 'to every thing there is a season'? Is there a season of hate? If so, what would spur that season and make it a thing God could accept?
This is just me thinking 'out loud'..on the page.
I do think that God abhors rapists...child molesters...murderers...evil. I believe the God that loves me, that God can hate the people who hurt me. I believe He cried when He saw them there, doing what they did. I believe He was there, in my closet, in the dark...all the times I cried alone. I believe He was the reason my tears stopped. I believe He was the reason my rape stopped...and I continued to breathe.
Sorry...got carried away!