It would be far too simplistic to say just ignore them, I get that. The truth is though that people who act that way are looking to unravel you and get a cheap self esteem boost at your expense. Still though, smiling through our tears is no stranger to PTSD sufferers. Perhaps just tell the person you will add it to your "to-do" list and suggest they add learning tact and compassion, to their "to-do" list.

Ok this has really struck a cord with me so apologies if, ok WHEN I bang on at length... Ignorance, hatefulness and "labelling"...

People bring a lot of pre-conceived ideas and misconceptions to the table. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD too so I joined the forum. I found an older mother complaining about her undiagnosed daughter and what a trial she was (daughter was 39, married with children). Cripes I would have thought the time for Ma's interpretation on how her daughter ought to live her life was well past. Daughter and her husband (him diagnosed ADHD) were labelled "crazy", a nightmare, and a few other choice superlatives due to their having ADHD- which I found to be derogatory rather than helpful statements aimed at ADHD sufferers generally.

For the record, as Hink said, people aren't all the same. And ADHD (in this instance) can't be blamed for everything! ADHD isn't a picnic for the person with it either, yet someone said to me "Southerly, we choose to be "sufferers" of ADHD". Wow, just got diagnosed recently so a bit condescending, huh? Time and again, distressed parents are lumping oppositional defiance disorder, autism, personality disorders like BPD, etc all together and labelling everyone as having these traits. It's inaccurate, unhelpful, and stigmatizing.

In any case, what mental illness ISN"T based on some negative external stimulus in combination with biochemical and neurological changes, genetics, support, or absence of it? Where does criticism, labelling others with unsupported diagnoses and invalidation fit into our health plan for better support?

Based on the expressed criticisms, the daughter's age, marital status, kids etc. I advised this Mother her daughter was an almost middle-aged adult, claimed to be happy according to her, so was free to make her own decisions. Perhaps she should let her daughter live her own life as she see fit and focus on her own happiness....Dangerous territory, I wouldn't really have thought so? How many independent older adults, married with kids appreciate criticism, advice and accusations of incompetence from a well-meaning parent? Hand me the scissors, there's some very tenacious apron strings to cut!! Yes, yes, parents still care...but this clear interference and criticism was quickly directed at me. In a bout of histrionics, I got the full treatment regarding how "angry" I was, etc., followed by support from adult ADHD people who agreed with my perspective, and parents apologising on my behalf because us ADHDers are such "ragers", apparently!

Give me a break? Since when does the offering of a contradictory perspective constitute anger? Directness of speech is to aid communication. As far as I am concerned, name-calling, great emotional displays- and I'm talking about the mother here- this is where half the trouble stems from. So I found my perspective minimised, invalidated and labelled as "angry", possibly "autistic"...and socially retarded! I didn't get angry even then... but I did think some of these people were sorely in need of an education in acknowledging behavioural complexity, conflict resolution, displayed hurtful, insensitive interpersonal communication styles with very little insight into their own contributing behaviour... Constructive criticism? Well, I said it politely- and I definitely wouldn't have been so "pointed' if my perpective hadn't been discounted as anger, and even as "going ballistic"! Highly colourful descriptions, but totally inaccurate...sigh.

I go to considerable lengths to ensure I don't offend, and only give advice I think is positive, helpful and not controversial as much as possible. If I make an ass of myself, I apologise. Yes, I've stepped over the mark with a friend here a couple of times because I have been so worried about her, felt helpless, frightened and upset at suicide threats and self-destructive behaviour and yes, got angry too. I've got feelings, some mutual consideration would be good. I'm not totally stable and good lord, it isn't all about you!

Now I'm going to be CONTROVERSIAL!

I've also had a few really crappy weeks this year, inspired by ugly comments made in this PTSD forum and another one by "haters". People "venting" bitter and hateful diatribe, black distorted views of life (symptomatic of PTSD at various recovery stages, I know...)so I have been at pains not to be dragged into their emotional cesspit, but the hatred is an unwanted contamination of peace I strive VERY hard to maintain. It has been very distressing to me and it is harmful to other people...And yes thank you, I am aware of the IGNORE button and I use it.

** I feel it is a form of psychological abuse. LIsten carefully. The propagation and indoctrination of a distorted and sick perspective on vulnerable others, based on unmodified world views originating from your own abuse is a form of VIOLENCE ***

I feel I need to say this. The world is NOT....NOT full of abusers. The experience of abuse is common (and in this forum the incidence is close to 100%) but it is NOT what constitutes the global experience. Many people are well-adjusted, pretty happy and content. PTSD causes a violent negative shift in perspective based on the perfectly valid empirical evidence of our own awful experience. For some of us, there was no "before"- the abuse has been lifelong. Obtaining a healthier world-view is extremely difficult to envision with no prior reference point to look to. I think this makes things more challenging, but not impossible, or a reason to give up. The evidence of healing is in the many loving, positive people here who were abused as children.

I remember a time myself when optimism seemed a farcical delusion. Life was hellish and society was peopled with evildoers. My experience proved it. And it did, no question. But what value was to be retained in walking through life with this angry, defensive, hateful attitude towards others? Carrying bitterness to the grave? Yes, I knew a time when it was impossible to think any other way. I understand. But I also acknowledged there had to be changes in my perspective to heal. Emotionally, I am now healing.

A number of us here are still there in the dark place where fear, cynicism and hatred dwells. I will try to reach you with optimism, compassion, hope and understanding. But please, please try and think what your angry venting and hatred for your abuser does to sensitive others!! It is a distillation of the anger, pain, and violence meted out on you by your abuser, it has been absorbed, festered for years and then is spewed up into the air we are breathing. It is your perspective, it is valid per se, but it is not a GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE of the human experience. It is an open wound, and it is an infectious one.

When a person uses "passive, aggressive" for their explanation, I ask them to use a different phrase to help me see what it is that they are trying to say.
People often express their personal experience as their reasoning behind their views.
I try not to use "labels" when asking questions on different forums to prevent someone from doing what you are mentioning.
By journaling here, you are finding peace with your experience, and that will help you stay strong, keep expressing your views, and best of all, know that the other person cares about what you are saying that they feel obligated to speak up on any topic you speak about. (I know, it's hard to see the honor in their action).
Hope this helps.
You are healing!

A lot of people are very ignorant.And unfortunately not that bright.
For them to understand is like wanting a rock to bleed.Is just not happening.Always look at the source.
Then people aslo can be socially un-adept, raised by hyaenas, or their mother "never told them...how to bahave..." who knows.

But like another member said get in touch of the New Yorker within and F' them.
Sorry if its too simplistic but sometimes it works.

I meant inept.....sorry very tired today....socially inept...

I've been practising that little "coping skill" myself lately i even put my hand on my back and give them the finger.....Of course they can't see it or all hell would break lose.....which is ok but not in certain places....

I'm really sorry but i feel i must say something about reply #2 specially in regards to this statement,

** I feel it is a form of psychological abuse. LIsten carefully. The propagation and indoctrination of a distorted and sick perspective on vulnerable others, based on unmodified world views originating from your own abuse is a form of VIOLENCE ***

It would be very interesting to know what would be considered an abusive vent.
To say someone venting is propagation and endoctrination i'm sorry but i disagree.They are just stating how they feel.
Unless of course the truly argue that that isthe truth for everyone and about everyone.

I do not feel like someone stating how horrible they feel and how horrible the world seems to them is harming anyone.Is just their opinion or experience.
And I do not find "infectous" is their wound not anyone elses.
And for people to be able to speak out is very improtant.Yes all that has been instilled in them has to come up.

Is someone is very affected by what others say just about themselves.I'm not talking about lauching a verbal assault on anyone.Of course that is abuse.
It would suggest to me a kind of co-dependency prob on the part of the person so affected by what another says or vents.

It would also suggests to me that a person would be white knuckling their healing if their healing is easy shakable by what others say, just about themselves.......

Sorry i do not believe that sensoring of speech at any level is healthy.
But that is just my opinion and again.'m not very sure what kind of vent was being addressed as infectuos in a negative way...

Now surviors have to be careful not to infect anyone with their wound??
Sorry i do not buy that.

I'm angry, happy, sensitive and insensitive... so uh... i'm always sorry. I apologize for anything I may say/do. My apologies have kept me ignorant of my own reflection.

I should firstly point out my first post took a long time to write because the topic is a sensitive one and I am well aware of that. My comments were intended to be fairly general. It is unfortunate, even 'awkward' to me that Reply #1 got in first, which gives the APPEARANCE that I was directing the latter part of my comments at Reply #1 and thus lends them greater specificity than was intended. I was not, and the comments were meant to be general, although the inspiration for my comments in part originates from the controversial post on the weekend.

Mideyebrow I was a little confused by your comments and who you were directing them towards, particularly this one-

" ....know that the other person cares about what you are saying that they feel obligated to speak up on any topic you speak about. (I know, it's hard to see the honor in their action)...."

I'm not sure who feels obligated to speak up on any topic "you" (?) speak about, but it isn't me...I have no plans to follow anyone around and try to cure them, certainly not someone with entrenched views- the juxtaposition of the two replies was an accident.

The other comment-
"I know, it's hard to see the honor in their action"
-also caused some confusion as to whose actions were difficult to view as honourable? Please feel free to clarify or not, as you see fit. I sense you feel you are walking a fine line here diplomatically, one way or the other.

Toot, it's a funny thing that I had the opportunity to discuss my comments, and yours, with my clinical psychologist this morning. Again, I realise that you have addressed my Reply #2 more specifically than it was intended, however the comment can be applied both specifically and generally. I repeat, it is not my intentention to pursue and psychoanalyse a person's specific situation. I WILL say that if a person's unresolved feelings of bitterness towards their abuser then affects their children adversely causing the children to "hate" the person with unresolved feelings, then that does indeed constitute a perpetuation of the elements of abuse. My psychologist confirmed that and we talked at length.

As for me, the terms "wise", "insightful" and "having done the hard yards" was bandied about quite a bit so I feel prety confident that I'm on the right track. It was also confirmed that co-dependency wasn't a factor in my relationships. Plus whilst our replies may have been juxtaposed, we're certainly not dating! I do believe our recoveries are affected by the attitudes of those around us, and that those attitudes should be primarily healthy ones. Otherwise, it is simply the blind, leading the blind. I do feel entitled to be upset at seeing a young person with impressively healthy views being called names or invalidated based on his age. I'm a pretty passionate person and that situation really stirred me up although I didn't join in the name-calling. I recall that particular discussion ended very poorly and the depth of feeling expressed only lends credence to the idea that the ideology of hatred begets hatred and not understanding.

Yes I feel someone "venting" ugly sentiments certainly IS propagation and indoctination of those sentiments if the audience are pre-disposed to thinking in those terms because they have been abused. The bitterness of views expressed tends to reinforce and validate how others feel, and whilst some may feel that this constitutes "support", it most certainly serves to bolster a negative and unhealthy world view, rather than call it into question. The expression of profound bitterness is symptomatic of illness and I say it is infectious because it is perpetuating and damaging to those around them. I think it is clear that such bitterness erodes relationships and robs those affected of pursuing warm, fulfilling relationships.

I absolutely agree that people need to speak up and give voice to their feelings. In doing so, they reveal their understanding of what they went through and it's repercussions. It can also reveal their prejudice, failures in communication with friends or family, and personal beliefs which may be holding them back from recovery.

Regarding censorship, well if it's by the Govt., sure, I am against it. But when it comes to communication with others, self-censorship is extremely important. I employ self-censorship every time I get on line here. I understand that people are in a lot of pain and I wish to not harm anyone by being thoughtless or judgemental but I do mean to make people think. You can't make that happen by bludgeoning people with your message however, so tact and establishing common ground is invaluable to facilitation of your aims. The aim in this case is to recognise a cognitive distortion, provide some views to create greater balance within the discourse and highlight that on a continuum of views, some originating from trauma (particularly from abuse in the family) are more extreme, require examination and would hopefully be discarded in favour of a more moderate and healthy position.

I haven't heard the term codependency being applied in situations which don't involve intimate relationships ie, such as between the venter and the reader. But certainly, there are many trauma sufferers who characterise themselves as having been in co-dependent relationships with their abuser so if codependency was actually a factor as you suggest, then there would be a large pool of people who would be negatively affected by ugly venting.

Survivors have to be careful not to infect others with their wound fro many reasons. Not just here on DS, but because the next generation (their children) are included as those infected with their skewd perceptions. An example of this is the woman who has been raped multiple times who teaches her daughter (for her own good) the cynical view that all men are bastards, men can't be trusted and that all men want from women is sex. A perception like that might result in the daughter entering prostitution (because being paid for sex makes her feel a "winner") and after all, there is clearly "no such thing as love". I don't think that example is particularly extreme having had the opportunity of speaking with several "working girls".

Yes I think we should self-censor if our views are negative and extreme. Like swearing, we may think it doesn't matter, but whilst acknowledging that we shouldn't do it around children, we might not realise that we shouldn't do it during communication with loved ones... because it is now contributing to a climate of abuse and a failure to communicate effectively and respectfully.

Thank you for clarifying Southerly,

I did not "read" anything in your reply 2 as to having anything to do with the other replys.

And i agree with you when it comes to children.Yeah venting hatred with your children is definitely abusive.

I thought you were talking about just venting in general here.I also did not really imply you were co-dependant i do not really know you and even if i did i'm not an expert.

I have watch this phenomenon of people being extremelly affected by what other do or say.Even if its not said or done specifically to them.
Trust me a get triggered really bad when someone tries to implant their beliefs on me, tigger bad,bad.....
But again i was thinking you were referring to vents in particular support groups like this.........

Which i still disagree with you that venting would be infectuos and propaganding and indoctrinating........unlike children.

propaganding and indoctrinating suggests trying to impose your views and beliefs on somene else and simply by stating how you feel and think YOURSELF does not do that.

I agree with you in part but i also disagree.
Is very important that people state how they feel, really feel no matter how aweful in a safe place.Is important that they get validated and accepted just like that without any conditions or "in order to..' nothing.As long as they are not hurting anyone and stating how you feel is a support group is not.

Only after a person feels supported and validated no matter how they feel for a while can they get strong enough to change themselves.Its not enough to tell a person that the world is not a horrendous place.
By showing them support and understanding no matter what you're showing them it isn't.Once that sinks in.
They'll may change their min.And if they never do.Well some people never heal.Should they be shun or reprimended for it???
NO.
It was not their fault and if they're not hurting anyone.Let them vent........in an appropriate place.
Someone who is feeling horrible and not allowed to talk about it, in other words repressed.Repressed feeling are dangerous and they turn into projections and is like a pressure cooker it'll come out somehow.
A lot of times in dangerous ways.

We agree to disagree, you make a lot of good point, i just disagree with this one....

hugs.

In my humble opinion and aside of our disagreement....and i apologize to the poster to going off theme a little...but actually is relevant...

As abused neglected children we were never heard, in my case i was not allowed to feel, think, or talk about anything about me.
We were severly invlaidated and devalued.

This of course is not gonna make for a very positive child and adult on the contrary.
So as an adult having been told to shut up and invalidated all your life well you are not gonna have a lot of positive things to say.

Now if you're again told to shut up becaus now your negativity is infecting the athmosphere then there is no chance for you to heal.
What was done to you in childhood is being done again, you are the problem that noone wants....you are the "bad child" again...

How this is relevant to the poster because a lot of time those insensitive people do not know the depths of your sorrow.Your sorrow since childhood, they do not know that damage done to you was not over night but over a life time since you were born....

And they have NO idea how hard and sometimes impossible it is to change.Trying to explain unless they really care and their IQ is not room temperature they are really not gonna understand...
again is like trying to get blood from a rock...
So developing a thicker skin is the only way......looking at the source.

I appreciate all the replies, thank you all...the idea of of a journal or a blog is a good one. Right now in my signature at that place I put a link to myths about PTSD...I think better would be a blog about PTSD and me because it affects us all so differently. Often I am critisized for being online a lot, statements like 'get a life' are not uncommon either and it's hard to explain (and redundant) why that is my life.

Online I can interact with people without having to go out and deal with them...I hate leaving the house unless it's for a walk with my camera and alone in nature. The truth is this site I am amember of I really have so many friends and the total amount of member is is over 200k, I'm the 4th highest poster...99% of the peole are awesome, usually when someone attacks there are plenty of people who have my back. But it's tough when people make comments that kick me in the gut. I stand up for myself (PTSD really affects my fight or flight instinct) and when I hear negaitive comments like PTSD is a cop out and not real, panic attacks are not real etc I get so upset that in seconds I'm shakning and hitting the keys on my qwerty keyboard I'm afraid the keys will come out of the bottom of it.

99.9% of the time I end up deleting parts or all of my respone, it's very important to me to be respectful online. I rarely swear, I never call anyone names but I am known to quote "those beneath me cannot offend me and those my equal never would".

Being a music forum I have problems with those who attack other artists, I get very upset when people use words like 'retard' towards others.

Thanx again everyone, I'm gonna work on a blog :)

Well this is what I've been thinking about recently myself. An opinion suddendly becomes poison.
If it's about you and how you view the world etc. I agree with some of the other posts here.

Some people aren't even frightened of it, but they put down people who appear 'weak'.

It's pack mentality. I think it's pathetic.