gentle hugs, this is difficult stuff

my best suggestion is to get your therapist to help you. to lend you help with your husband to get the two of you on the same page - so you can be a team in this, as in your whole marriage.

then, to help you with best, maybe most efficient ways to handle this.

As the 5th of 11 siblings, I'm not sure my mother ever noticed I was gone, so I was spared that iconoclastic gnasty, but, in general, I have found that relationships are hard to kill without murderous intent on both sides of the ship. I relied heavily on caller ID and evasion when I was in this uncomfortable position. It took time, but eventually took.

For what it's worth, I have also trusted my husband in situations like this. I haven't given him an expert license in these matters and reserve the right to go wife-inator on him, but it happens quite often that he can see things about my psycho-weirds that I am blind to. It is not a blank check. Just a healthy respect for my awesome taste in men.

Continued support while you work it out, Itsrai.

From a parent's side...you will never kill the relationship.

I understand this from both sides. My mother was beyond toxic. (Her last "discussion" with me was telling me that both me and my son were autistic, because Something had to explain our behavior.)

That said, life is long and hard. My ex decided that he didn't want to be married anymore, and left me with a 5 and 7 year old. I had no choice but to go back to work (nights) and ask my mother to watch the kids (All she had to do was literally sleep here. Even at those ages my kids knew how to get themselves up for school, feed themselves, etc.) "Friends" who I had helped with their children, were no where to be seen when I needed help. My ex and I had been together for 20 years. NO one thought that we'd ever get divorced...including both of us.

Also too...losing a child to estrangement IS the hardest thing for a parent to deal with. (I Know parents that have both lost a child to death and to estrangement. It's not even close to how painful it is.)

Your choice for what to do. Estrangement seems to be the thing to do today. A throwaway world. (Again, I'm on this board because of trauma from my mother too.)

I wish you the best no matter what you do, Patti

I often wish to express rage to my mother and father and one grandfather. I'd be happy to ignore them as well and never have anything to do with them. Luckily and disappointingly in an ironic way, they have long since died. So mostly I live with the distress of having no recourse.
Maybe you don't tell your mother anything until she comes to confront you. You could also just try writing it down and if it comes out good make it a letter. She may want to argue points and to me that seems unproductive unless reconciliation is possible. My grandfather committed sexual abuse at least with my sister. If he were alive "I'm sorry"s are not acceptable. That does not undo the damage. But if his actions long ago led to my sister's damage and probably mine he would have to take the long hard road to reconciliation and would have to do it. I would not allow it to be a choice on his part. He would be compelled to realize the things he did are simply not acceptable in society and in the family. Nothing less would do. Or refer it to law enforcement. But I often wonder if law enforcement understands.

My mom's mental illness is Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy or MSbP. The Monty Python movie "The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" tells about the guy from whom MSbP gets its name. It portrays hilariously an account of Baron Munchausen's supposed travels and fantastical experiences with his band of misfits. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096764/

Surviving a mom with MSbP was less hilarious. WebMD's definition says "Munchausen syndrome by proxy (MSBP) is a mental health problem in which a caregiver makes up or causes an illness or injury in a person under his or her care, such as a child, an elderly adult, or a person who has a disability. Because vulnerable people are the victims, MSBP is a form of child abuse or elder abuse." http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/tc/munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy-topic-overview

I spent the last 2 years working with 3 other friends on how hospital ER's could help detect it better when a mom hurts her kid (like me) and brings him or her in to an ER to get attention from medical staff. Our work was published this year as a book chapter in a book on patient-centered medicine. For their support group anonymity's sake, I'm going to pass on pasting a URL link to that here.

What I learned was that, as with all things here, I wasn't alone in this, either. My mom masked a lot of her MSbP activity behind the sacrifice of being a missionary's wife, getting sympathy even behind wild claims like that of having "broken her neck." With me her an MSbP activity involved a broken leg when I was 9 that went without being set for a painful day. Another involved first/second/third degree burns I got as a 10 year old boy when she poured concentrated ammonia on my arm to "treat" me for a bee sting.

But as clever as my MSbP mother's cover was behind being a missionary's wife (before she and my dad's mental illness finally got them both caught and expelled by their missions board), on the team that wrote our book chapter this year there was a story much worse than mine. What better cover for an MSbP mom than to be a psychiatrist, too? It's not my tale to tell, but my chapter writing teammate's stories were sobering. Her psychiatrist/MSbP mom was so mentally ill she not only hurt my teammate with all kinds of unnecessary prescriptions, she eventually just killed herself.

The 2 year experience with my 3 coworkers researching the topic and sharing our stories validated all that I'd withheld over the years because it's not nice to speak ill of mom and apple pie. On the flip side, it also validated that all of us kids who survived MSbP moms still loved them, and that's human and allowed. I had to put distance between us for a decade at a time to keep safe from harm, but she was always my mom.

I cared for her from 2004-2007 when she had breast cancer. I did that for me as much as for her. As a hospital chaplain I'd cared for people a lot meaner than her on the job, and just because she was a bad mom didn't make me want to be a bad son. I wanted it on my conscience that though she treated me badly from her MSbP, I didn't treat her badly from my PTSD. She may not have chosen recovery but recovery was indeed mine. I haven't seen her for 6 years now because I had to get a safe distance from her yet again.

What I can say about your query, itsraining, is that it's a two-fold issue for everybody: that you surely may love her but you surely must never do anything for an abusive mom thinking you fixed her in any way.

Block your phone and ask your husband to do the same, also with emails etc so you can have some healing space. I am in the same boat, my Mom manipulates my adult daughter and plays the victim, it is really hard. Follow what is best for you, you can do this

Having someone manipulative in my life - my moms the same way - my bother stopped talking to her so she takes her frustration on me by saying I don't speak to her enough. Your husband needs to understand you are trying to set some boundaries and not give in to your mom behind your back. I do understand breaking the bond is going to be hard as she is your mom but setting boundaries and limiting conversations shouldn't be. Unfortunately you will have to mention it to her somehow and that means your husband should be with you on this knowing fully well that your mom triggers you.

We struggle with this in our household only I'm the spouse. My husband's mother is toxic. Two of her three children cut her out of their lives. He still talks with her but sets clear and firm boundaries. We have blatantly told her, "You are difficult. We are choosing to love you and to stay connected to you, but we will do so in a way that doesn't abuse us." The conversations are difficult but possible. I believe his siblings simply blocked everything and explained to those around them that they would not be dealing with their mom anymore and it was not optional. The problem I am observed as an outsider, is that simply cutting someone out of the picture doesn't heal the wounds they created and sometimes can make the wounds worse. Just my personal opinion.