Physical & Emotional Abuse Support Group
Abuse is a general term for the treatment of someone that causes some kind of harm (to the abused person, to the abusers themselves, or to someone else) that is unlawful or wrongful. No one deserves abuse, period. Abuse can be emotional, physical, or sexual.
Ok so for those that know my story - Ive gotten to the point where I retained an attorney, am sitting on papers and have become numb to pull the trigger. Ive been discussing this with my IC and she said I need to feel ready. Suggested MC - with one who specialized in abuse, like she does. She said when people get to this point, sometimes MC can help them to see more clearly and move things along in the right and healthy direction.
So we went to see the MC tuesday. You can read my journal for all the details, but the gist was this:
She seemed to get him right away. Called him out on his nervous energy, how he kept interrupting me whenever I tried to speak and I'd just sink back in the couch. She said he worry's too much. SO much so, that he pushes me away. He doesn't listen or hear me. He's so busy only half listening and then thinking about what he's gonna say.
She explained to him how little by little his behavior, not listening, not taking me seriously for years when I've reached out to him, all the times I tried to explain my hurt, asked for MC, time apart,... He just ignored me, figured it'll pass and things will be better tomorrow... all of that caused erosion in me. I started keeping things inside, to avoid arguments, confrontations, I grew depressed, sad, lost myself. Now, there's nothing left of me - I'm eroded away.
She said we need to start from scratch now. and take things slow. Whether we can rebuild or not, we need to have a friendly relationship bc we'll always be in contact with the girls. She explained how extensive studies have been done and children will be FINE with divorced parents - as long as there's not bitterness, and friction. If we can be friends and be amicable, they will be fine.
She said i need to put the anger and all that happened behind me and look at each other and try to recall the happy times, what we fell in love with in the beginning. Try and have cordial conversations and become friends again. We are certainly not a team anymore and just seem to be keeping a score card. She said I need to get to a place where I can look at him and talk to him without feeling all this anger and having all these hard emotions stirring up inside of me. Until then, we cant even address if this marriage can be saved. Right now our goal is to see if we can just be friends for the kids sake. Now - That bugged me. It seems like rug sweeping. IDK. Im not gonna stay and be miserable or become complacent and settle. I'm just not. It's a process. I feel like going to this MC was my last ditch effort.
IF this marriage is to work, there needs to be ALOT of investment on his part - serious, authentic investment. She said it's gonna be hard and a lot of work. He Says he loves me and wants to stay together as a family. But she told him he has to understand, it's been years of myself eroding away and it just be too late.
What bothered me was, she got ALL that out of a 55 minute session! Ive been trying to get through to him for YEARS. And he still didn't have the reaction I wanted him to have. He has yet to have that "ah-ha moment". He SAYS he gets it, and understands but he just seems so cold about it.
Here's the twist -
she called me today and said she noticed something that was a red flag to her. She asked that I not say anything and she didnt really wanna put any thoughts into my head, and that she didnt want us to be talking behind husband's back, but... she asked how he was academically. I asked what are you implying? She said, the way he sat quietly and said he was absorbing everything but she felt he wasn't quite getting it. I said yes. ive felt that way ALOT for YEARS now. I said I felt he was a bit emotionally immature and just really self-absorbed.
Now im curious to know what HIS IC thinks of him. But isnt it unethical for me to try to talk to her?? Either way, the MC said to me tonight, that I feel how I feel - if I feel Im done, then Im done. But my anger may be replaced with frustration IF its a mental "disability" for lack of a better word.
Sorry so long!
Thoughts???
So we went to see the MC tuesday. You can read my journal for all the details, but the gist was this:
She seemed to get him right away. Called him out on his nervous energy, how he kept interrupting me whenever I tried to speak and I'd just sink back in the couch. She said he worry's too much. SO much so, that he pushes me away. He doesn't listen or hear me. He's so busy only half listening and then thinking about what he's gonna say.
She explained to him how little by little his behavior, not listening, not taking me seriously for years when I've reached out to him, all the times I tried to explain my hurt, asked for MC, time apart,... He just ignored me, figured it'll pass and things will be better tomorrow... all of that caused erosion in me. I started keeping things inside, to avoid arguments, confrontations, I grew depressed, sad, lost myself. Now, there's nothing left of me - I'm eroded away.
She said we need to start from scratch now. and take things slow. Whether we can rebuild or not, we need to have a friendly relationship bc we'll always be in contact with the girls. She explained how extensive studies have been done and children will be FINE with divorced parents - as long as there's not bitterness, and friction. If we can be friends and be amicable, they will be fine.
She said i need to put the anger and all that happened behind me and look at each other and try to recall the happy times, what we fell in love with in the beginning. Try and have cordial conversations and become friends again. We are certainly not a team anymore and just seem to be keeping a score card. She said I need to get to a place where I can look at him and talk to him without feeling all this anger and having all these hard emotions stirring up inside of me. Until then, we cant even address if this marriage can be saved. Right now our goal is to see if we can just be friends for the kids sake. Now - That bugged me. It seems like rug sweeping. IDK. Im not gonna stay and be miserable or become complacent and settle. I'm just not. It's a process. I feel like going to this MC was my last ditch effort.
IF this marriage is to work, there needs to be ALOT of investment on his part - serious, authentic investment. She said it's gonna be hard and a lot of work. He Says he loves me and wants to stay together as a family. But she told him he has to understand, it's been years of myself eroding away and it just be too late.
What bothered me was, she got ALL that out of a 55 minute session! Ive been trying to get through to him for YEARS. And he still didn't have the reaction I wanted him to have. He has yet to have that "ah-ha moment". He SAYS he gets it, and understands but he just seems so cold about it.
Here's the twist -
she called me today and said she noticed something that was a red flag to her. She asked that I not say anything and she didnt really wanna put any thoughts into my head, and that she didnt want us to be talking behind husband's back, but... she asked how he was academically. I asked what are you implying? She said, the way he sat quietly and said he was absorbing everything but she felt he wasn't quite getting it. I said yes. ive felt that way ALOT for YEARS now. I said I felt he was a bit emotionally immature and just really self-absorbed.
Now im curious to know what HIS IC thinks of him. But isnt it unethical for me to try to talk to her?? Either way, the MC said to me tonight, that I feel how I feel - if I feel Im done, then Im done. But my anger may be replaced with frustration IF its a mental "disability" for lack of a better word.
Sorry so long!
Thoughts???
in a day or two, and just
read "freedom's" lengthy
set of replies.
WOW!!!!!!!!
freedom
NAILED it.
What a community
this is.
Genuine change
requires (at the
very least. . . . .)
TIME.
And lots of it.
Don't be fooled
by "gimmicks."
Notmyself - he is definitely NOT a narc, I truly do not believe a narc can truly manage this kind of significant change, just based on the characteristics of the disorder. He much more fell under the need to control and anxiety and dysfunctional behaviors from his family of origin. He was actually diagnosed with borderline personlaity disorder, but I believe he is either a mild case or he really has complex pstd or something that behaves in a similar way. Again, I don't think he could have made the changes otherwise, especially to the empathy, thoughfulness and kindness he now displays. He has grown a lot the last couple of years, in recognizing why he did things, self awareness, finding ways to deal with his feelings and stop bad thoughts and develop healthy behaviors, to heal from what his abusive parents put him through. I've watched him go from trying to change one or two behvaviors or thought patterns at a time to hearing him talk about wanting to be healthy and having healthy. He said he started with giving up something really small - letting go of control when I was driving, and he has managed over time to break the whole control thing. He is not perfect, he is still working, as am I, but he's not abusive any more. And he still won't claim he's changed, he will only say he is really trying.
My reply really was focused on what the MC said and when/why it works. It surely won't work for all / most, the abuser has to do the work - and I truly believe that WHAT is driving the behavior is a big key to wether or not they are capable of and might be willing to do the work.....a narc can't do it, a heavier in the spectrum borderline can't do it, I would strongly question whether someone who had physically hurt their partner could ever do it. My husband's counselor also told him right up front that very few couples in this situation make it. And I don't advocate marriage counseling for any abusive relationship, way too much that can go wrong there. The thinking is sound in the right situation, marriage counseling is NOT the place to attempt it.
Yes, Livin is right, my husband was willing to let me go, he understood that I had every right and reason in the world to go, he wanted to do the work for him. I initially didn't stay because I wanted to work on things, I stayed because I wasn't quite ready to leave. But while I was there, I certainly noticed his change in behavior - he has assumed I was pretty much out the door at that pioint, but he was working anyway.
Anyway, you are more than welcome to ask any other questions or read any of my journals. I will reply back when I can.
Oh, and I completely agree with time.....the only true test is time....I took it VERY slowly, he had to prove it with his actions. Mine told me if I was interested in even maybe trying, he'd wait patiently as long as it took....and then he did.
This will be long but I truly appreciate everyone taking the time to listen and respond... so here goes...
Misty - I can relate to feeling that way - not wanting a close, loving relationship again, now that I'm realizing all these things about my husband - regardless of the reasons behind it.
Wiggy - Your'e insight helped a lot too. I still love/care for him bc we've been together forever, but I dont trust that he's sincere and genuine right now. I am definitely experiencing a lot of anger and resentment and most recetly that overwhlming feeling of being broken.
MTC - I appreciate your input - I am still with IC and I am trying hard to work through my feelings and all of the realizations I've had. It does take seconds to break trust and thats a horrible feeling. You say what my IC says to me - turn inward and go with my feelings and my gut. And the answers to your quesitons really do tell all - this marriage is over - bc I do tense up and feel weird and agitated when he's around, I dont feel a genuine love from him - everything feels weird. The fact that it will take so long to see a change - depending on his reasons and motives for changing - it's so overwhelming.
Freedom - You are spot on with the feelings - for months I have grown so angry at him, I made up my mind, had 4 attorney consults, I knew what I was going to do. As time went on, I became numb and that bothers me bc I dont know what I'm feeling or rather - I'm feeling nothing and that makes me question which direction to go in. At least when I was mad, I was moving forward with purpose. I get that it's a survival mechanism tho - that makes a lot of sense. Ive done for years, just what you did - soothing his insecurities and anxieties - which bring me to feeling like the enabler. And yet, I am listening to you guys and trying to get it to sink in that regardless of how I changed and behaved, he still CHOSE to be controlling and treat me the way he did.
I feel like he is "trying" different things to see what'll make me come around. I'm also still trying to wrap my head around the fact that he simply did not care and has no empathy - and that his feelings and needs were at the root of it all. Bc he says things like - c'mon, youve known me for 22 years. You know I would never do anything intentionally to hurt you... And yet my reply to him is - yes, youve known me for 22 years.. you couldnt tell how angry upset and hurt I was al the times I reached out and tried to explain myself?
He did tense up during MC as I explained more crap and behaviors that had been bothering me. My IC gave names of MC bc I told her my husband kept asking to give him another chance and lets try MC again. He told me to pick out the person - whoever I wanted. So I wanted to find someone who is trained witih abuse.
Youre not being harsh. I am deep in the forest and feel stuck and reached out here bc this community is amazing. Like i said I was doing better a few months ago, but now seemed to have fallen back a few steps and it's bothering me, And I have that fear that he may be on his best behavior and will slide back eventually. And then what? Do I start this cycle all over again? It's too much to take. And yes I do question his authenticity. bc everytime Ive said to him he just doesnt quite get it - he gets frustrated and says he does. And then says, what do you want me to say to prove to you that I get it?! And THAT annoys me - if I have to tell him what to say or do, then he doesnt get it. Ugh - my mind is exhausted...
Violet - Youre an amazing girl who will continue to power through and get thru to the other side. You have your whole life ahead of you - you know I have faith in you :)
Ilene - That was my reaction to Freedom's response too - a lot of what she said really resonated with me and makes so much sense. I want to be sure things are not gimmicks and that it's the real deal - I simply am not feeling it from him.
Summer - Thank you so much for sharing your story - it really helps to shed some light for me. See, the thing is, your husband was willing to walk away, and then do the work. I'm trying to figure out if I'm making too much of this point or not, but my husband will not move out of the house. He says I can leave with the girls and stay at my moms...who lives in another town 20 minutes away, I work f/t from home, our 8 yr old is in school here, the 2 yr old has diapers and all her stuff - that's an insanely selfish idea - how would THAT work out - and HE lives all nicey-nice in the house - and we're in this mess because of HIM?? SO I said NO to that dumb ass idea. So he said he will work on himself and wants to work on us, while still living here. Says he'll give me space but then asked me for coffee this weekend - bc MC suggested we try - but ONLY if I'm ready (which Ive said numerous times Im not) - yet he keeps trying. He's moving forward to have control of our situation. He just cant relinquish that control and leave me be. He hates the indecisiveness and the fact that he doesnt know the fate of our marriage at this point.
So this is where I'm at.
At the very first in this last round of I am going to change (and we went through many rounds over the years of the he'd "change" for a week and then go back to the same old crap and he would absolutely refuse to go to IC, he had a laundry list of reasons why he couldn't.....years of this), I got the guilt trips and manipulation and wanting a guarantee I'd still be there after he did the work, but all of that changed and he backed way off. I don't know exactly why, I have never asked him. Maybe I will, it would be interesting to know. but there was a point where his thinking turned to grab onto something different, really getting it happened over time though. We had other stuff thrown in to the mix at that time, too, it was a huge mess, there may have been something that just shocked him into reality, I don't know.
He always offered to move out, even when he was REALLY bad, he always was of the mind the kids and I stay in the house. The thing I learned is that you have to go by his actions, you can't go by his words. Look, I made some crappy choices in all this, I got emotionally invovled with a man from my past who offered me a shoulder during all this....he ended up being just as bad as my husband, if not worse, and he was of the words say one thing, actions didn't match variety.....I have learned the very hard way ....only actions matter, someone shows you who they are and what they truly have to say by their actions. Especially with these guys, you almost have to put yourself in the frame of just not even listening to anything they say and just watching, watch what they do, write it down, compare to the list on that link and make your own judgement. I know it's horribly confusing and it's so hard to try to figure out the right path to take and what's real and what's not and it's all so emotionally charged and you are so worn down.....that list helps make it more objective. It helps ferret out the truth. That and trust your gut....even though you have been through so much, your gut will still try to direct you in the right direction...mine was just a shard of a muted voice, but it was still trying to warn me about Mr. Shoulder and it led me to somehow believe my husband this time when everyone here told me he'd never change....everyone has their own path and there are some tools to help you find your way.
I am a 100 percent believer in when someone tells you or shows you who they are, believe them after all this. Huge life lesson. If he is still of the thinking of what's best for him and how all this affects him and makes him feel variety, he is NOT ready to truly change. It is HIS job to make all this right, it's not yours.
My husband is almost 45, he definitely has/had some similiarities with your's in the growing up and partner department and I longed for all the things you listed, too.
And has learned / is learning to give those things.....working with me on the house, the kids, the errands, the decisions, giving me compliments and thoughtful surprises here and there, family time, thoughtfully considering my feelings and thinking ahead on things, talking things out like a respectful adult, asking instead of assuming, making an effort to give me the things that I need to feel loved whether they come naturally to him or not, etc. He has honestly surpassed what I thought he was capable of giving and I like this version of him even better than the one I had when we first married.
So it's never too late to grow and change, grow up, adapt new behaviors....but he has to want it, he has to really deep down want to be a different person. And he has to go get it for himself. If he can't or won't, there isn't anything you can do. You are not responsible for him and his choices (and yes, I know how hard it is stop feeling responsible for him), you are only responsible for taking good care of you.
The link is very helpful. Its helping to take the confusion out of the mix a bit and I'll be utilizing it to help me get clarity and understanding of my situation.
Maybe if I ask again that he move out for a time period of 2 months but reassure him we will not see other people during this time - that may help?? I don't know tho bc he said the other night he didn't wanna move out and b away from the kids.
You can do this, V. xo
It's up to you what you want and what you need and what you think will help you. It's not all about him and what he wants. If he has an inkling about what he has done and what it has done to you and he wants it to work and to make things right, then he will not be selfish about what he wants (staying in the house with the kids), he will provide you with what you need, no pressure or strings attached. If he can't do that, he's not ready to do the work - again refer back to that list - does he understand the consequences of his actions and is he willing to accept them without blaming you or making it about him??
What you say makes sense. And I do read over that list. It's helpful to have some kind of guideline like that bc I don't trust my judgement and its so cloudy right now.
He doesn't have a hope in heck of fixing anything if he can't so much as admit to what he does. And it may verywell be hard for him to admit....in order for my husband to admit it, he also had to accept that his family of origin is very dysfunctional and abusive - in other words, he had to face his stuff head on. Not an easy thing to do.