Physical & Emotional Abuse Support Group
Abuse is a general term for the treatment of someone that causes some kind of harm (to the abused person, to the abusers themselves, or to someone else) that is unlawful or wrongful. No one deserves abuse, period. Abuse can be emotional, physical, or sexual.
notmyself1
Ok so for those that know my story - Ive gotten to the point where I retained an attorney, am sitting on papers and have become numb to pull the trigger. Ive been discussing this with my IC and she said I need to feel ready. Suggested MC - with one who specialized in abuse, like she does. She said when people get to this point, sometimes MC can help them to see more clearly and move things along in the right and healthy direction.
So we went to see the MC tuesday. You can read my journal for all the details, but the gist was this:
She seemed to get him right away. Called him out on his nervous energy, how he kept interrupting me whenever I tried to speak and I'd just sink back in the couch. She said he worry's too much. SO much so, that he pushes me away. He doesn't listen or hear me. He's so busy only half listening and then thinking about what he's gonna say.
She explained to him how little by little his behavior, not listening, not taking me seriously for years when I've reached out to him, all the times I tried to explain my hurt, asked for MC, time apart,... He just ignored me, figured it'll pass and things will be better tomorrow... all of that caused erosion in me. I started keeping things inside, to avoid arguments, confrontations, I grew depressed, sad, lost myself. Now, there's nothing left of me - I'm eroded away.
She said we need to start from scratch now. and take things slow. Whether we can rebuild or not, we need to have a friendly relationship bc we'll always be in contact with the girls. She explained how extensive studies have been done and children will be FINE with divorced parents - as long as there's not bitterness, and friction. If we can be friends and be amicable, they will be fine.
She said i need to put the anger and all that happened behind me and look at each other and try to recall the happy times, what we fell in love with in the beginning. Try and have cordial conversations and become friends again. We are certainly not a team anymore and just seem to be keeping a score card. She said I need to get to a place where I can look at him and talk to him without feeling all this anger and having all these hard emotions stirring up inside of me. Until then, we cant even address if this marriage can be saved. Right now our goal is to see if we can just be friends for the kids sake. Now - That bugged me. It seems like rug sweeping. IDK. Im not gonna stay and be miserable or become complacent and settle. I'm just not. It's a process. I feel like going to this MC was my last ditch effort.
IF this marriage is to work, there needs to be ALOT of investment on his part - serious, authentic investment. She said it's gonna be hard and a lot of work. He Says he loves me and wants to stay together as a family. But she told him he has to understand, it's been years of myself eroding away and it just be too late.
What bothered me was, she got ALL that out of a 55 minute session! Ive been trying to get through to him for YEARS. And he still didn't have the reaction I wanted him to have. He has yet to have that "ah-ha moment". He SAYS he gets it, and understands but he just seems so cold about it.
Here's the twist -
she called me today and said she noticed something that was a red flag to her. She asked that I not say anything and she didnt really wanna put any thoughts into my head, and that she didnt want us to be talking behind husband's back, but... she asked how he was academically. I asked what are you implying? She said, the way he sat quietly and said he was absorbing everything but she felt he wasn't quite getting it. I said yes. ive felt that way ALOT for YEARS now. I said I felt he was a bit emotionally immature and just really self-absorbed.
Now im curious to know what HIS IC thinks of him. But isnt it unethical for me to try to talk to her?? Either way, the MC said to me tonight, that I feel how I feel - if I feel Im done, then Im done. But my anger may be replaced with frustration IF its a mental "disability" for lack of a better word.
Sorry so long!
Thoughts???
So we went to see the MC tuesday. You can read my journal for all the details, but the gist was this:
She seemed to get him right away. Called him out on his nervous energy, how he kept interrupting me whenever I tried to speak and I'd just sink back in the couch. She said he worry's too much. SO much so, that he pushes me away. He doesn't listen or hear me. He's so busy only half listening and then thinking about what he's gonna say.
She explained to him how little by little his behavior, not listening, not taking me seriously for years when I've reached out to him, all the times I tried to explain my hurt, asked for MC, time apart,... He just ignored me, figured it'll pass and things will be better tomorrow... all of that caused erosion in me. I started keeping things inside, to avoid arguments, confrontations, I grew depressed, sad, lost myself. Now, there's nothing left of me - I'm eroded away.
She said we need to start from scratch now. and take things slow. Whether we can rebuild or not, we need to have a friendly relationship bc we'll always be in contact with the girls. She explained how extensive studies have been done and children will be FINE with divorced parents - as long as there's not bitterness, and friction. If we can be friends and be amicable, they will be fine.
She said i need to put the anger and all that happened behind me and look at each other and try to recall the happy times, what we fell in love with in the beginning. Try and have cordial conversations and become friends again. We are certainly not a team anymore and just seem to be keeping a score card. She said I need to get to a place where I can look at him and talk to him without feeling all this anger and having all these hard emotions stirring up inside of me. Until then, we cant even address if this marriage can be saved. Right now our goal is to see if we can just be friends for the kids sake. Now - That bugged me. It seems like rug sweeping. IDK. Im not gonna stay and be miserable or become complacent and settle. I'm just not. It's a process. I feel like going to this MC was my last ditch effort.
IF this marriage is to work, there needs to be ALOT of investment on his part - serious, authentic investment. She said it's gonna be hard and a lot of work. He Says he loves me and wants to stay together as a family. But she told him he has to understand, it's been years of myself eroding away and it just be too late.
What bothered me was, she got ALL that out of a 55 minute session! Ive been trying to get through to him for YEARS. And he still didn't have the reaction I wanted him to have. He has yet to have that "ah-ha moment". He SAYS he gets it, and understands but he just seems so cold about it.
Here's the twist -
she called me today and said she noticed something that was a red flag to her. She asked that I not say anything and she didnt really wanna put any thoughts into my head, and that she didnt want us to be talking behind husband's back, but... she asked how he was academically. I asked what are you implying? She said, the way he sat quietly and said he was absorbing everything but she felt he wasn't quite getting it. I said yes. ive felt that way ALOT for YEARS now. I said I felt he was a bit emotionally immature and just really self-absorbed.
Now im curious to know what HIS IC thinks of him. But isnt it unethical for me to try to talk to her?? Either way, the MC said to me tonight, that I feel how I feel - if I feel Im done, then Im done. But my anger may be replaced with frustration IF its a mental "disability" for lack of a better word.
Sorry so long!
Thoughts???
And yet, it complicates things. I do feel badly for him.
Vern - you remind me so much of my sister! She says things just like you. She loves me to the moon and back and supports me so much through all of this. And yet she'll say how much longer am I gonna "not live my life" for him. I am empathetic (dalai lama ... Lol). But she's right along with so many others here. I can't be "too nice" all the time if it means I keep denying myself my true happiness and fulfillment.
And that's the guilt I struggle with. It's like I'm leaving a baby in a basket to fend for himself :(
I have definitely grown alot and realized so much about myself, my husband and our life. I owe a lot of it to my friends here on DS - the insight and support here are astounding - and my IC is an extremely positive force in my life now. I'm learning so much. (Chia pet... Vern, u crack me up!!) you're not a crybaby! Youve been thru incredibly tough times and struggles. It's a process to get thru. Please don't ever lose your wit and sense of humor ... It's a breath of fresh air!
Except that he's NOT a baby.
He's a fully grown-up ADULT
who is supposed to be and
act like a responsible adult.
He's an adult responsible
for his life, and you're an
adult who's responsible
for YOURS.
What I finally realized is that if he had cancer, he would have gotten his ass to the dr and done everything he could to get better, except give up cigarettes and alcohol. (Not being snarky, just being honest.) And there's the rub - when they either know they are doing wrong and don't care OR they are in total denial and continue to disregard and disrespect us and our feelings, it means they aren't going to choose to get better like they would if they had cancer.
So why would I want to stay around to watch him self destruct and take me down in the process? And an abuser WILL take us down!! If you take it a little further, it would also (as it did) affect the kids - even if they are already adults.
So IMHO, it doesn't matter whether his abuse is due to immaturity or a diagnosed mental or physical disorder. He is what he is and it's not up to anyone but himself to fix it.
So let's look at this another way. Let's say he is 'just immature.' You aren't this guy's mother. And he is an ADULT who is in IC, so it it up to his therapist to diagnose & treat whatever mental disorder or immaturity he has. Just like it would be up to his physician to diagnose and treat whatever physical condition he has.
Then it would be UP TO HIM to follow his treatment plan. What would the NATURAL consequence of him not following
the plan(s) be? More than likely it would be that he wouldn't get better. That would mean he would continue to treat you like crap. And what would the natural consequence of that be? You leaving him.
IMHO, the ONLY chance he MIGHT have to change is AFTER you leave and he knows he can no longer depend on you to be their to accept his behavior. Because that's what us being there means to THEM. It means they see our staying as us willing to accept their behavior no matter what we might say.
Know that I am NOT placing any blame on you...only trying to illustrate how THEY see us being there. Once I realized that my very presence was enabling him, I left. Sadly, it didn't make any difference to him. He still drinks and he still abuses. Sadly, he's just doing it to different people now.
Where it made a HUGE difference was, and is, in MY LIFE. I cannot tell you how grateful I am to be where I am - which is OUT. It was tough and it took a good while to get past wanting to go back & wanting him to change. I'm still in therapy, but I am so much further down the healing path than I ever would be if I had stayed. I don't have as much money or other material things, but I have enough. And I have freedom, peace of mind, the ability to rediscover myself, be who I am, heal and live in peace. And that is PRICELESS.
I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for your
articulate and
important response.
One of the key things I've taken from your experience, Summer, is that he allowed (for want of a better word) you to leave if that's what you needed to do, and committed to change for himself, whether you left or not. He is the only abuser I've heard of here truly changing, and he's also the only abuser whose promise of change didn't come with a requirement that the victim stay around and do most of the work.
Notmy, you know better than we can, what your H is saying about his motivations for going to IC and MC, what he hopes to gain. And only you know whether he is using it as a hook to keep you there while he does the work. I do believe Summer's story, I do believe it can happen. But he has to be at the very least willing to have you leave, willing to truly accept that you have every right to leave, to give up, to say you can't do it, can't let go of the past. Yes, if there's to be any future you have to be able to let go of the past - AND he has to accept you may not be able to.
I've said before, and I
have no problem saying
again ----- in my experience,
I have met a man from a
dysfunctional and violent
family of origin. In his early
adulthood he replicated
how he was raised. He
was dysfunctional and
violent.
With motivation and support ---
this man became a thousand
percent healthier and ----
NONviolent.
(With full disclosure, this
person never ventured on
into attempting a healthy,
on-going intimate relationship.
He remained unmarried, and
is now, close to 70 and lives
modestly and alone.)
So, whenever I write about
my experience, personally
and professionally, with
abusers of various kinds,
I try to qualify my pronouncements
and cautions with "virtually," "generally,"
in my experience," and so on.
I, personally, have known
an abuser who made a
u-turn, so I try to avoid
saying NEVER.
But I know this one,
singular person and
I know how special he is.
For anyone out there who
has had the fabulous and,
in my opinion, nearly miraculous
turn-around of someone who's
been abusive ------ I'm so very,
VERY HAPPY for you.
You're certainly entitled to share
your wonderful experience, as
I and others here, am entitled
to share that we've turned our
own lives around, however
miraculous.
But (in my experience),
the recovery of an abuser,
and a violent abuser, in
particular ---- is an event
that happens exponentially
SELDOM. When it happens. . . .
WOW.
And how fortunate for the
people connected to them!
For the rest of us. . . .
for the vast majority
of targets of abuse. . ... . .
RECLAIM your life
and plan a SAFE
and successful
ESCAPE.
Love and blessings
to all. . . . . .
I am working through dealing with all ive learned about him and his behavior over the years. I continue with IC and work on building myself up again and try and figure out what makes me truly happy and fulfilled inside. I dont just want to coast through life with barely any emotions or feelings for him - and things in general.
I am most myself and happiest and free when he is not around. When he's around me, I feel on edge, a deep sadness, confusion, and a lack of any deep feelings for him.
I'm just trying to figure out if this is me working through everything that happened and am healing OR if this is my gut telling me, we are no longer right for each other and it's time to move on.
I'm feeling stalled in my process. Husband seems to be changing. Keeping up with stepping up to the plate with our girls and not giving me a hard time and encouraging me to go out, take time for myself.
I know MC is Not advised in these situations, but I feel like I'm just coasting and felt like I needed to do something, in addition to my IC, reading self-help books. We had our 2nd session with MC (she does specialize in abuse). In regards to her ethics - by calling me to ask about my husbands emotional learning through the years - she did bring that up in our 2nd session and asked him directly.
She is realizing and pointing it out to him that he half listens and is very anxious and begins to worry about what his reply to me will be, instead of fully listening to me. She is trying to get husband to understand that even tho I agreed to MC, the marriage may still not be salvaged - unless he makes changes - stops controlling me, marriage is not a dictatorship.
But i feel hollow inside. No feelings for him. Is that normal? WIll it take time to work through all that's happened and all I realized?
Also, please continue with your IC w/a therapist who specializes in recovery from abuse & trauma. What you are feeling is normal for the situation.
A few MC sessions are NOT nearly enough to determine if he's changed. That may take years. No one changes over night, especially abusers.
There is nothing in this world that says you have to decide anything now. Be where you feel the safest and most comfortable. Observe him from a distance, especially when he's under stress. Anyone can change for a little while and when they get what they want. He has to PROVE to you that he has changed - he's the one that abused and broke trust. There's a saying that says it takes years to build trust and seconds to break it. Abusers really don't get that.
TRUST YOUR GUT. Trust your inner self. It really doesn't matter what we all say. What matters is how do you feel? How does your body react when you are with him? How does it react when you aren't with him? When you are with him, do you feel safe? Do you feel loved? Do you feel respected?
I used the word 'feel' on purpose - again pay attention to how your body feels. He can say all the pretty lovey dovey words in the world,but if his actions don't CONSISTENTLY match his words for a LONG LONG time (like months & years - NOT days or weeks), believe the actions.
TRUST YOUR GUT!!!
I am so sorry you are going through this hurt, pain and numbness. I know how mind-blowing numbness can be, especially involving someone we love(d).
I also know that feeling anything other than numbness, including extraordinairy confusion, can be preferable. Especially, when you are used to feeling SOMETHING all the time. However, numbness is our mind's way of protecting itself when we are going through big changes. Have you ever hurt yourself really bad and somehow remained conscious enough to make it home or call the doctor? Your body goes numb from the shock and the pain- so that you can SURVIVE. Your mind is doing the same thing...
There are so red flags in your posts that are maybe only evident to me and other other outsiders... Like his anxiety. My ex blamed insecurity, panic attacks, his childhood, past relationships, basically anything he could dream up, for his need to control me and our relationship.
In order to soothe his insecurity, I submitted to his insane requests. I answered his texts as fast as possible, told him where I was at all times and did everything humanly possible to soothe his anxiety... But think about the root of anxiety... It is the feeling that something/someone is beyond your control and the feelings that surround it. The root cause of anxiety is lack of control... And in this case what he can't control is YOU.
He can control his car, even your kids (as they still are reliant on him), his remote control... All of which are treated as objects in his eyes. He knows what to do, what buttons to push, to get each item to perform in a desired way. By breaking away, you are breaking the mold... He doesn't know which buttons to push anymore.... But your MC is sure helping him. He wants you to stay, so he helps oit around the house more, behaves like you have been asking for years and years... Because now he knows that is the button he has got to push to make you stay, to reel you back into the mold.
The reason why you haven't seen an aha-moment is because he has gotten it all along. Even a child knows that if they hit their buddy and he or she cries, it is because they are hurt. Even a dog knows that! He knows that what he does causes you pain, he just never expected you to.leave. And why would he? All of the years he has been able to push a button and get his desired result. Why would this time be any different? He just has to figure out which buttons to push I. The right order... And you will stay.
As for why what you said and asked of him for years and years not getting through to him... Ypur pain, your tears, your very real heartache, it is because he does not care. He has no empathy. I can tell thay from just reading this one post. His anxiety and nervousness during the session is because he doesn't know how to behave. He is inainaroom with a professional who is (supposedly) an expert on human emotions and he is scraed of being found out... of revealing too much and being called out on his lack of empathy!
Phone battery is dying... Will write more when I get home
(Continuation of post above...)
I would also like to point out that his inability to stay silent and interrupt you or the therapist, is not because he is nervous or anxious is not because of his nervous energy... It is his attempt to control a situation which may lead to his exposure. You may say something that reveals just how lacking in empathy he is and the counselor may do the same... He has no learning problem, he has a failure to 'care about other people's feelings 'problem.
One question: How does it feel to be an object? To know that he is now consciously pushing your buttons to get you stay so that he can go back to life as normal?
Also, did your IC refer you to your MC? If so, they are most likely friends. The therapy community is rather small, and it is not at all uncommon to refer out patients to your colleagues. It is extremely inappropriate to contact you directly regarding your husband when she is treating you both as a couple. Your IC may be excusing her behavior because she is giving her the benefit of the doubt.
In reality, when push comes to shove, would he be making these changes on his own because he wants to be a better person? If so, than he can stay elsewhere while he works on himself and gives you space until you feel ready to 'date' again.
I am not saying all of this to be harsh, rather to help you separate the forest from the trees. It is so hard to see when you are in the situation, so I hope to just add some perspective. Honestly, he has known things were wrong and that his behavior was inexcusable for a long, long time. He did nothing to change. It was only when you broke free that he has started to pick up the slack... And that was only because the life he knew was interrupted. Without clear devotion to change for himself and by himself, he won't change. His behavior will slip back to status quo once he is comfortable again.
Even if it is five years from now. As it was for my father, when he decided to 'change'.
I am so sorry you are going through all of this... I know how tough it really is... That is why we are all here. Because being in these relationships are the hardest thing any of us have ever been through.
Love,
Free :)
Do you feel a lack of authenticity on his part because he has not had an aha-moment? That he doesn't get it?