As I read your post I thought, wow I could have wrote this. Wish I had some advice, just know you are not alone and it happens to many of us. Hugs!

thanks - for now it helps to know that I am not alone. I get waves of grief everyday, like they are gone and lost forever. While I hope that is not the case, there is simply nothing I can do without endangering myself and getting into a legal battle that I will never win as he will always come out on top!!

Saw this article posted on the Narcissist forum - it helped to read this - at least to know that I am not the only one. It could read as my very own script though....

http://www.tipsofallsorts.com/divorcing-a-narcissist.html

Thanks, again!! xo

How horrible. Your ex is abusing the kids by depriving them of their mom. :( I wish I had some advice. My first thought is, in the end this will likely backfire. The dad has the upper hand now, but when these kids grow up they're going to remember how you were to live with, and they're going to want to make up their own minds about you. And when they do, when they realize you're not what their dad made you up to be, he's the one who's going to be blamed for keeping you from them--he'll be the one they'll resent.

Hi Katherine,

I too have kids but I left when they were still very young and they spend most of their time now with me.

My son told me yesterday that he wishes he knew the truth about what happened because his dad and I have told him different things and he doesn't know who to believe.

I don't know if it would help you but I'm preparing a large file in which I have placed in date order all the emails I get from him and messages that I send to my lawyer and anything else relevant such as restraining orders, statements to the court etc. I plan to simply give them the file when they are adults so that they can identify the truth for themselves.

I went through it with my son for awhile. His father was not stupid enough to get him involved in sending me texts from him tho. However, my son was 14 and lived w/ my ex for 18 mos after I moved out. I didn't even have my son's cell phone #. I could only talk to him if I went to my old house and banged on the door, which I did a couple times a week. When he would come to the door, I would just be bawling, and beg him to just hug me.

I felt it was important for him to know that no matter what he did to me, no matter how cruel he was, I was still standing, I was still there, that I would always love him. I knew that in his case, he was just trying to survive, trying to keep his father happy so the monster didn't go after him.

My only advice would always be to let you kids know that you love them unconditionally always. No matter what. My son walked away from his father one day, and never went back. He's been with me 3 years now.

My situation may not be the same as yours though. There is a very active sub group here on DS for parents of estranged children. The people are loving and welcoming and may be of a lot of help and comfort for you. The link is below.

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/haven-of-peace-for-estranged-parents-hope

Good luck, and God bless. I do know that this is more painful than the divorce was....

I absolutely agree with Hockeymom.

I think you should try to talk to your kids. Don't diss him. Don't display your anger to them. Just tell them the truth--that you love them. If they say something disrespectful to you, then tell them that it's inappropriate.

They are your children and you are an example to them. Their brains aren't fully developed yet, and just because their father is trying to cause them to misbehave and to create an unhealthy distance from their mother, doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to re-form the healthy relationship with them, that is vital for their future and current happiness.

I know it's not at all simple, and I can't claim to have any special authority for giving this advice, but this is my opinion. Also, I know that I haven't experienced anything as painful as you have, so I don't want to seem like I know better than you or that I am a better judge of action than you.
My son's father would verbally bash me in front of him, and eventually my son even told his father that he wanted to kill me. This was when he was six.
Still, even if the children are confused right now, they still need their mother. One day, like hockeymom said, if you just keep showing them that you love them, that you won't be knocked down, and that you won't be persuaded to discuss the conflict between their father and you around or with them (beyond the absolute necessary), they will understand.

You need your children and they need you. I know you will find a way through.

Oh, also, the advice that I gave you was the same advice my son's therapist gave me. I don't want to seem like I am acting high-and-mighty or anything. I can't even imagine how much pain you must be in, and your predicament certainly isn't simple! Good luck!

I'm sorry I can't give much in the way of advice, except to say that I know a little of HM's story and think she has it kind of nailed. I also know of others whose fathers have done the "super dad" thing and kids tend to see through it.

I hope you can find a way to reconnect with your children. Like LK, I can only begin to imagine the pain that would cause.

First I would like to offer you a group on Facebook that you can discuss this with. Heres the link:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/101180977077/

Second, the only way to avoid PAS is to get a lawyer to arrange with the court "enforceable visitation rights". This can be done with the lawyer filing with the court and the judge awarding "SET" visitation rights. If the father fails to adhere to the schedule then he will be in violation of a court order. It is a right for the other parent to parent their children. Most courts recognise PAS as the leading cause of "broken relationships" between a mother and a father.

A word of caution. My father badmouthed my mother and did everything he could to alienate us 5 kids from our mom. It all backfired on him and he died alone of cancer.

It may cost you some money, but check into a lawyer and get the papers done throught the court. It will be well worth it. If you show up to get them and you have a piece of paper, the children have to come with you, otherise you do not have a leg to stand on.

Good luck to you.

Oh and BTW. Make sure you get a lawyer who specializes in Family court. They know the ropes and can work your case well. If you can't afford a lawyer, some will do pro-bono. But I highly recommend you hiring an attorney. The old adage is true here "you get what you pay for".

Due to their age, the advice from both my lawyer and my therapist is basically the same: "let them stay with their father now and get your own life together". Both seem to think that I could waste an inordinant amount of time in court, knocking my head against the wall and being forced to deal with his BS and lies, only to end up no further ahead. The kids are old enough to make their own decision on where they live and they are old enough to recognize that their "financial future" is largely dependent on keeping their dad happy. That means hurting me by all means possible. The flip side is that their dad is letting them know that I have abadonned them and that I do not care about them. All I feel I can do right now, is send them texts and emails from time to time and let them know how much I love them. By getting my life in order, they, I hope, will eventually realize that the woman who left, broken down and such a mess, was a victim of abuse, not just a mental case.

I also told my Mom that I thought I should document things in the way of a book or journal - so that a) I never forget the truth and b) that I can share my side of the story with my children one day. My therapist also things this could be good for me as a way of letting go and working through the horrible details of what I have been through. I really need to do this, I think.... just as Lifebutnotasweknowit is doing with her files. I have pages and pages of nasty texts from my ex and from my kids, calling me a whore, threatening my friends and family members with assault and even death. I think will include some of this proof in the journal - even if it only serves to remind me that I am not crazy, it happened and I am trying to heal and move on.

I would look for another attorney. You have a right to your children no matter what age you are. As I said, I would look for someone who specializes in family law. OR, just throw you hands up and don't put up a fight. I cannot believe for one minute that a therapist or lawyer would discourage a rightful relationship to your children. And the key was that you get enforceable visitation rights, not custody. That way you can work out things in your life and be a part of your childrens lives.

Just my thoughts.

sorry meant to say no matter what age they are.

I realize that everything you say makes perfect sense - in a just world. My ex has won at every turn - in the end, my children are being manipulated into shutting me out. With his lies, he has created a false reality where I am someone they no longer want to have anything to do with. It is truly a shame but the courts in Canada do not recognize PAS widely.

I want my kids to have a great future and to continue to get the education they deserve. They both know, as do I, that future is dependent upon staying on the best terms with their father - and that means shutting me out.

It is my own guilt about disrupting that - that keeps me from fighting. I am not a weak person, I survived a 23 year abusive relationship, raised 2 beautiful children with strong goals and many talents, while being shaped into a pretzel myself. I pray that they will be ok and maintain at least a little bit of a moral compass. I pray that they will want to see me one day.

I get what you are saying, and I do know the frustration you are feeling. Maybe a good thing for you do do is write them letters right now and keep them for a later date, when they are ready to hear you and be a part of your life. That way you will have dated letters and sentiments of how you were feeling at that point in their lives. That will let them know you were always thinking of them and when the time is right, you can share them with them.

Just a thought.