I think that is an amazing idea!! Thanks!

Katherine...

When I couldn't see or talk to my son I sent him an email every single day. I didn't know if he was getting them, or reading them, but I did it anyway. If you write them a letter, SEND IT. They may not get it, but they may, send it with a return receipt or delivery confirmation. Keep a copy with the slip so you can show them some day that you tried, in case you didn't get it.

Ignore the stuff they do to you. And seriously....I spent a LOT of money on custody. Just to get visitation that my ex couldn't mess with. My son was not happy about it at first....but it gave me a way to begin to communicate with him, that was enforceable. I filed at least 5 contempt charges against my ex, because it was his responsibility to make sure my son was with me when he should be. I even wrote into the orders that I would go get him, and bring him home. I would INSIST that I get to see my kids, even if they don't want it. My son too, was old enough to choose where he lives, and he did. And then... he chose to live with me, when he finally figured out where he was loved and where he was used.

I am not sure if your therapist and atty understand the insidious nature of abuse. My ex also really worked at telling my son, and making him believe that I had abandoned them both. You have to undo that in your kids heads. You can't let that stand, it's a lie, and an extremely damaging one. Every minute you "let them be" and get your life together without them will reinforce for them the notion that their father has implanted in their heads. They will only see the truth when you open the window on it for them.

They need to see you fighting for them. I am not being harsh, I hope you don't take it that way. I am just speaking from my own experience. They need to know that they are part of getting your life in order. Not separate from it.

One thing that worked in my favor is that in my state a divorce cannot proceed until custody is agreed to. My son's financial future was at the time tied to his father. The divorce settlement undid that. His college education remains under the jurisdiction of the court. I would imagine that Canadian law is similar to the US in this regard.

Yes document everything. I was able to use my journals in court to remember dates and events. They weren't formally allowed as evidence but I got them in through the back door, so it was all good.

It is the fight of your life. But hey, our abusers taught us to fight. The more I went to court, the less afraid of him I became. The court did not look kindly upon him trying to keep my son from me. At one point my ex's atty said to the judge "There are reasons the son doesn't want to go with her, and they are not flattering to her." The judge replied, "It's his MOTHER, Mr. B, It's his MOTHER. HE JUST GOES WITH HER."

Katherine, I am here for you if you need any thing. I am so sorry you are going through this. I've been there, done that, don't ever want to do it again.

Big huge hugs to you.

God, I don't mean to be verbose here, this is such a passion with me.

STOP feeling guilty for disrupting their lives!!!! YOU MAY HAVE SAVED THEM. At least, you took the first step, you can now offer them an alternative, a pathway to a joyful life!!!! Don't pretend that it was all joy and peace in that house, and that the abuse wasn't pervasive enough that it was palpable for them. They knew it....And they may be mad at you for leaving, because you were the buffer between them and him. My son was. But eventually, if you get enforceable visitation they will see that what you did is give them an opportunity, a place to go where abuse is NOT the order of the day.

Guilt is a useless and damaging emotion. You did the right thing. Now you just have to follow the path, and get them on it with you....

In the months prior to my departure, it was always my intention to be with my kids and raise them as I had always done - it was NEVER a thought to leave without them.

As the months went on and my relationship with my ex become increasingly volatile (because I had realized I was in an abusive relationship and was no longer willing to put up with his shit), the kids saw me emotionally unravel under the strain of being a caged animal - physical abuse, threats of physical abuse, lack of sleep, complete lack of freedom, etc. They believed my ex when he explained to them that I was mentally unstable - because, I was.

At one point, I tried to explain to my son that there were issues between his father and I (he is 16). I remember citing an example of how sorry I now was for sitting silent in the front seat of our car while his father berated him after almost every hockey game he ever played. He would scream at him and use such obscenities and it began when he was maybe 5 and lasted his whole hockey career - until his dad just stopped going a year or two ago. I apologized for being too afraid to stand up for him and that it was wrong - I should have. He told me to just forget about it - it was in the past and he had already moved on from it. I couldn't, but I wanted to give him an example that he could refer to when he wondered why I was leaving and "destroying our family".

My kids now believe the reality their father has created for them - I abandonned my children, I am a whore who has moved in with another man who is a loser, I am a mentally unstable person with substance abuse issues, etc. Actually, I am awaking each day and not living in fear, I am working hard to start my own business, I am playing a lot of music (a passion among others that I forced to give up) and I am spending a lot of time with my family (who I was forced to stop seeing). I am a good person and I was a great mother despite eventually cracking after 23 years of abuse. Anyone who knows me and knows my ex - knows the truth, it was impossible to miss. I know my kids know it as well - they are just trying to keep their lives unchanged as much as teenagers always do. They now have a new "mother" - his girlfriend of 3 years - who moved in exactly 2 days after I was forced out of the house under too much fear to continue. Their lives have a new normal and I am not part of it.

But, I do keep sending them emails and texts telling them how much I love them... and I miss them.... but it is like a huge part of me has died. And the legal system, children's aid and all the "so-called" experts just don't get it.

The best was when my ex had to do court-appointed counselling after his assault charge. He came back and told me that the counsellor suggested that I must have serious self-esteem issues - hello - a guy is doing counsellfing after physically abusing his wife and she has self-esteem issues. I am no "expert" but that automatically throws up some red flags for me..... What a joke!

I have lost total faith in the system, I am afraid.

Whatever else you lose faith in, keep faith in your kids and your love for them. Regardless of what they do or say. And regardless of what lies he tells them. Don't trash him, just keep telling your kids you love them. He hasn't changed, he won't change. They will one day see who he is, and they will either feel abandoned and unloved, or they will know where they are still loved, in spite of what they have said and done.

I can only begin to imagine your pain. But losing faith in the system is not the same as giving up on your kids. Even when it seems pointless not to.

h.m. -----

"Verbose" on!!!!!
This is the place for
your enomous and
profoundly valuable
wisdom.

I did not weigh in, (to
this point) because,
my good fortune is
to not have had experience
with this obscenity, first-hand.

I do however, have a
client who is the victim
of the abuse of parental
alienation. As it happens,
the victim on the receiving
end, is the father; the
perpetrator is the mother.
(Abuse is NOT gender
specific.)

She stole one daughter away
from her father and is now
working on accomplishing
that travesty, with the second.

The father, my client,
is a warm, wonderful,
innocent, hard-working,
person who thought he
was raising a family,
only to have it ripped
away by an abuser.

The heartbreak of this
kind of abuse has to be
on the short-list of horrible
things in life.

katherine ----

Follow the recommendations
of those here who have offered
you their experience. And while
you're doing that, I hope you'll
take very good care of yourself.

When the day comes that things
turn around and get better, you'll
want to be whole and healthy.

Hugs and healing thoughts.

Livndadrem - Thanks and I completely agree. I have never said anything derrogatory to my children about my ex - I have never been a malicious person and I stand my moral ground on this one (That said, there are people I do vent to - my family calls him a monster) My ex - when I was still communicating with him - used to flip out when I told him that the kids would eventually come around. It infuriated him that he was "doing all the work" now and that they would have any relationship with me. I know how I raised my children, with love, care and a ton of attention. I just intend to reinforce it constantly - I know they will need it one day.

IleneW - I am caring for myself - I do have good days and bad days. I started Somatic Experiencing Therapy and it has really given me access to some understanding of what my body is going through and also, given me some tools to deal with the overwhelming grief and sense of loss I am currently feeling. I am exercising and trying to lose some of the weight this nightmare has caused me to put on. And, I am filling my days with planning and researching in order to start a new business for myself.

Some days, I get up and I just want to go back to bed. Those days are getting fewer and farther between. At least a few times a day, I feel that overwhelming wave of grief or despair when I think of my beautiful children and what that loss represents to me. I just miss them so much!

Katherine, I did the SAME thing with the hockey. OMG, and that sport, probably more than many others, requires many many long hours in the car, where the abuser has a captive audience. I resorted to ear plugs so I couldn't hear them....because if I said a word, a single word, my ex would RAGE, and my son would be crying, begging me not to say anything. Oh I have sooooooo been there.

Your kids may believe their father for the moment, but if you consistently show them with every fiber of your being, different....they will come to know the truth. You CAN and WILL undo the damage that he's done.

The most important thing is that your kids know you love them unconditionally, and that you have NOT abandoned them. And they will only know this through your actions. Trust me on this, that nothing, NOTHING, in an abuser's bag of tricks can hold a candle to consistent, pure unconditional love.

It brought my son back to me, it will bring yours back to you. Fight the good fight....for them and for you. I used to tell my ex he's gonna die old sick and all alone. Two of those are already true. Like my son's said "It's his own fault, Mom".

God, I wish I could meet your ex in court...I would love to lay waste to him....

hockeymom - I agree that unconditional love is something they have always received from me. My daughter was actually left at a hockey arena about a month ago. Her father left, said he was going to pack up her stuff and he was kicking her out (not the first incident apparently). He called me (was the last time I spoke to him) and told me that I was going to have to move back into the city and she would have to live with me. This was a blatant attempt to get me back into his control. I told him to f-off but that I would take care of it. I drove in and spent the weekend with the family that had brought her home fromt he rink. We spoke with children's aid and agreed that the best scenario for all of us, short-term, was for her to move into her school's boarding program. I got her all set up and the next weekend, I spent the weekend with her and when I brought her back to the school on the Sunday evening, I was pulled into a meeting with the Head of the School. I was informed that as the non-custodial parent, I had no rights to make these decisions. By the end of the conversation, I realized that obviously my ex had been at the school earlier in the day to threaten a lawsuit. within 24 hours, my daughter went from being too scared to live at her dad's home to being homesick and moving back with her dad. Since then, there has been almost no contact with her. I told her at that time, that I was always here for her, I needed to know that she wanted me to fight for custody. She told me then, that she wanted to move back with her dad (i could read between the lines, she was afraid to say differently) Yesterday, I received a nasty text from her about a bill that I had not paid - so obviously from my ex - there was swearing and the tone was disgusting. I just told her, I would take care of it, it was not her issue and that her tone was hurtful.

I continuously send notes to both of them - complimenting them on their report cards, telling them how much I miss them on specific occasions, telling them how much I love them and miss them. My daughter replies regularly saying how much she loves and misses me, my son never responds.

My ex is a total piece of work, i do rest easy knowing that eventually, he will get what is coming to him. I cannot imagine his girlfriend will stick around for his abuse for long. He does have money so he will likely always have some girl attracted to him - but chances are - he will get taken advantage of at some point. he is not too bright - the stuff he put into writing in texts to me, could land him back in jail. he has already moved this girlfriend and her 6 yr old son into the house. Soon, she will be able to take half of the rest of his money.....

I could have never imagined my life to get so crazy..... I am sure none of us imagined it.

Katherine you are doing all the right things. You will get them back. I'm gonna guess that your dAughter was more afraid of not going back than she was homesick, just doing what she hAd to to survive. As long as they know you are there, that you can't be scared away, eventually they will get sick of the abuse too. And like my son one day they will walk away from him and never go back. It took my son 18 months and he had to quit playing hockey to do it. I was never so proud of him. As hard as it was for us to leave I think it's harder for them because it's all they know. It was up to me to give him another frame of reference so he had a choice to make. When they have a clear choice they will choose the place of love.

Don't lose heart. You'll get them back in your life.

Katherine, a parent who plays this sort of game with a child is playing a very cruel and dangerous game, and in your ex's case it is going to backfire on him big time. At a guess I'd say your kids are confused and hurting right now, but the day is going to dawn when they realise how their father has manipulated them emotionally and how this resulted in them missing out on having their mother in their lives - at a time when they needed the security of both parents most.

However, you kids are young enough for you to attempt to put an end to this type of estrangement, and I'd go down the route others have suggested of consulting an attorney.

A very cruel twist on PAS:-

Having reared my son alone from ages 4.5 to 19, my ex husband (not my abuser), who had chosen to be absent from our son's life during these years, re-appeared and managed to convince our only child (then aged 19) that I'd been responsible for the lack of contact during his childhood. Whilst this was totally and utterly untrue (the ex was too busy remarrying and living his own life), this resulted in our son believing his father and estranging himself from me. The saddest thing here is that my son missed out on a father during his childhood and now he's missing out on a mother in adulthood.

What I am hoping for now - is when the divorce proceeding hits the courts in June of this coming year.... I have noted the reasons for the divorce as all of the above (separation, adultery and cruelty). By then I will be able to bring my proof of all three to the courts and hope to have the custody/visitation piece of the divorce revisited. Our settlement agreement states joint custody - however, when dealing with a narcissist or borderline, there is no reasonable way of making that happen. I am informing my lawyer or all incidents as we proceed and I just hope that by then, we can make something happen. In the end, if the kids feel threatened financially or by his power, they will always state that they prefer to stay with him. Who is going to step in? Children's Aid? They will only deal with my daughter due to their ages anyways. I am sure they have seen this a million times but it still doesn't make them act on it any more quickly. This is now child abuse but who can recognize it if both the children and their father claim that the current situation is what is best for them? I see it clearly - the "experts" seem to be missing the point completely.

http://www.parentalalienation.org.uk/

Thank you , Mike. As you can imagine, I need all the help I can get. In the face of an emotionally abusive ex, a legal and child protection system that obviously does not recognize the truth of what is going on... I do continue to have hope but some days, it just feels like there is no light. I really lean on a 2-page letter my son wrote to me in Grade 5 or 6 on Mother's Day. I posted it on my Facebook page so he could continue to see it, in case he ever re-opens his heart. I gave my all to my children from birth, the loss is devastating. But, I would have never survived in that environment of emotional abuse - I lived numb for way too long for the sake of my children. I became way too scared to continue living the lie for their sake - I was almost lost myself. I hope that doesn't sound selfish - it never was a selfish act, it was merely self-preservation.

Please don't feel guilty. Easier said than done I know, but you are NOT selfish. Right now, you still have yourself and you have love to give your children and there is hope. If you'd stayed, there would have been no hope - eventually you would have had nothing left to give.

You didn't only save yourself, you gave your children the best chance at being saved too. It's not over till it's over. Kids are smart. Your kids are scared and/or brainwashed right now, but keep on keeping on. I think they will see the truth. It may take some time, but they will see the truth.