Violet: Everyone has a point of view. When I was a child and a teen, I would go to my parents and tell them how I felt or what I wanted. They would say "No you don't" "No it didn't" "No you're not" I heard it so much as a kid I had no confidence in myself. I didn't believe in myself or my feelings.

It would be to your benefit either way to find counseling to sort it all out. You don't want to go through your life second guessing yourself. Being uncertain of yourself or your decisions, may lead to you become a victim of abuse outside of your family home.

If your parents have more then a casual, social drink, that would make your home life dysfunctional, as many people on DS will tell you.

If you want t to be free of it and have a happy life trust Ilene and Carolin to look for help where you live. I trust them to be genuine people who can lead you in the right direction.

Violet you are not making this up. If you were, you would know it. That is what happens when we live w/abusers. We end up thinking we are crazy or that we made up everything.

As a wise therapist once told me,

"if it walks like a duck
and it talks like a duck
it's an f'ng duck!"

She suggested this sure fire way for me to realize I wasn't crazy and I wasn't imagining things. Keep a small diary - a small notebook will do. Don't let anyone know you have it. Every time you see/hear your mom or dad do something that doesn't feel right, or feels dangerous to you or your siblings, or you perceive they are being abusive, or you think your mom (or dad) is drinking, make a note of it w/the date. When you begin to doubt yourself, look in your notebook. You will see evidence that is irrefutable. You will realize that you recording things as they happen is not the same as you making things up!

There are tell tale signs when someone is drinking. Many are signs most people don't notice because they aren't around the person who drinks enough to become aware of the nuances. Just listen to your gut. You know....you can tell when she's drinking - even if you don't see her drink. Even if you don't see evidence (like bottles of liquor around or her actually making a drink), it doesn't mean she's not drinking. Smell the drink when she's not looking - you'll know if it has booze in it or not. Listen to how she enunciates things. Does she use mouthwash, breath mints and/or breath strips a lot? Does she use some sort of eye drops? Are her eyes bloodshot? Are there times she talks slower or faster than usual? Does she slur her words (even just a little bit)? Is her behavior erratic? Does she flip from dr. jekyl to mr hyde in a heartbeat? Is she argumentative over what seems to be no big deal? Does she ever say things like "if only you would ______" and end w/something like "then things would be better or I would be happy, etc."?

Alcoholics can appear highly functional to those on the outside. When we grow up w/an alcoholic it ends up feeling normal because we don't know any different. It's hard to accept. My adult kids still have trouble accepting their dad is addicted to alcohol. They just think the way he behaves is 'just dad.' When actually, it's the alcohol that has taken over their dad's spirit, mind and body.

I know you're probably tired of hearing this from me, but please find an LPC (LICENSED professional counselor) or LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) in your area to help you process your feelings and learn healthy coping skills to help you deal better w/your parents so you can begin to heal.

I'm too afraid to go talk to someone MyTrueColors. My first attempt didn't go well since someone told my parents. I don't want that to happen again. My trust in talking about stuff to adults is broken.

I'm so sorry that your trust is broken. But I do understand. There are good adults out there. The reason I suggested you stick w/licensed therapists is because they are governed by state and national boards so you would have somewhere to report this type of thing. But I won't push you any more. :-) I hope some day your faith in adults will be restored.

In the mean time, please trust yourself. You are smart, intuitive and very observant. Trust what you saw/heard as opposed to what someone else says you saw/heard. ok?

Violet, you ARE an adult, and you are, and have been, talking to other adults here! Please don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch in your eyes, or you're going to have a very strange and isolated life!

You just have to talk with someone who will maintain confidentiality, which isn't that hard to do, with just a lil' bit of effort on your part.

GL!

Thanks Realin and MyTrueColors. I try to trust myself but I constantly doubt my decisions.

You are not making this up. Abusers want us to stay confused...so they can continue to have power and control over us. Please don't give up. We support you on here.

I mentioned this before and I went back to read posts. You said that your father read your texts to your friend here. In those texts you discussed telling what was going on at home to your YM. Your father called you out in your discussion where you admitted talking to your YM. I believe the YM and anyone from your church. They have no reason to betray you. They have no reason to cause you problems at home. They have no reason to continuously call your parents. If they were so concerned about your home life they might have gone to see for themselves if they wanted to be that involved in helping your family.

Your father fabricated lies and deception to control you. He succeeded in making you doubt yourself and others who want to help you. The people you should not trust are your parents. That is hard to take and it is hurtful.

Someone else mentioned, we are adults and trying to help you. Also you are an adult and need to help yourself. If you are struggling with what is real and what isn't, therapy really would help you.

Hopefully someone can help you find a free place for you to get counseling of some kind. Your church might know where you can go, Your YM is there to guide you. It seems you had a good relationship with him.

If others who are telling you not to trust him would go back and read your posts only they might come to the same conclusion. He did not call your parents. He told you that, yet you believe your father who has a motive to lie to you.

I believe someone called but I know it was not my YM. He and I have a great relationship and he'd never call w/o my permission. Are my parents really abusers? I don't know whether to believe it or not. They do love me just don't show it very well (mom especially)

Let me ask you this, v.w.:

If a man you found attractive,
said he loved you and
then, almost everything
else he said and did
was abusive. . . . .

what would you conclude
about that situation?

You are the only one who can decide what you should do. Engaging in arguments with your parents and provoking them in any way will result in you feeling abused and frustrated. I assume you are a senior in high school. Are you going to college? Can you take a part time job to save up money? Do what you can to stay out of the house.

Think of your future and how you can become independent. There are people willing to guide you. When I was young and living at home, I avoided my parents. When spoken to I was polite.
I respected the house rules. Like I said what you do is your call.

If you tell your father you are troubled by things, maybe he will agree that counseling would help you to sort things out. His insurance probably still covers you. Use the Aspburgers as an excuse or whatever gets your father to agree to counseling

It's not easy being a teen, but guess what it is even harder being a parent to a teen. Stay focused and stay strong. Look out for yourself.

It is important that a parent(s)' use of alcohol is not overlooked or minimized here. It changes EVERYTHING in the dynamics of a family. Not just for the user, but also for all those who live in the house. I don't remember whether you said if your dad drinks as well, but if he does (even if it's not as much as your mom), that can also contribute to all the craziness you and your siblings have to live with.

Even if he doesn't, he is more than likely co-dependent and therefore unable to look out for the welfare of all of his children, including you. Something else that happens in families where one or both parents are addicted to mind altering substances, including alcohol, is that the children have to become the adults/parents. It's usually the oldest who has to look out for the younger ones and feels the most confused and helpless because they were thrown into a role they aren't equipped to handle - nor should they be expected to.

When someone starts drinking, that's when they stop maturing emotionally. At some point a 'switch' is flipped and then it becomes really hard to stop and they are addicted. THE most prevalent sign is denial and the inability to recognize they have a problem. They blame everyone else.

I remember when I was still with the ex, we recorded a conversation as per the MC's suggestion. Later we talked about it and I quoted something he said and he denied saying it. I replayed the part where he in fact did say it FIVE times and FIVE times he denied saying it. THAT is how crazy alcohol can make a person. It destroys brain cells and affects their ability to think logically and make good decisions. (FYI, I do NOT recommend MC w/an abuser or a substance addicted person, especially w/someone in the church as most of them are NOT trained in recovery from addiction or abuse.)

When someone drinks and behaves the way your mom does, it's advised to expect the unexpected, inconsistent behavior, being surprised by what the alcoholic says/does, and/or that what they say/do won't make sense and may be overboard or excessive for the situation.

Alcohol causes the brain to do weird things and the longer one has been drinking (not for a specific day but for years, even if they don't drink every day), the worse and more inconsistent and nonsensical they can become.

What I learned over the years from experts is that alcohol is only 10% of the problem. The other 90% is BEHAVIOR. The tricky part is that they can't get to fixing/changing the behavior UNTIL and UNLESS they STOP drinking COMPLETELY. And then it only works IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE and IF THEY GET HELP.

Sandy is right, it's not easy being an adult. However, when an adult chooses to drink & put their family/children at risk, they ARE accountable & responsible for their actions. However, it's not up to a child to have to hold them accountable or responsible. One parent's drinking puts the entire family at risk physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually and financially. Each family member goes into survival mode and draws on whatever survival skills they can at the moment. Most are learned from other family members whose behavior is more than likely unhealthy & dysfunctional.

Another aspect of this kind of dysfunction is shame. It fuels the addiction cycle and makes it hard for them to admit there's a problem because, like your parents, they are afraid of what others will think. That's because they KNOW, deep down inside that something is wrong. That doesn't make them bad people, it makes them dysfunctional and dangerous (as in driving drunk and being abusive).

For the moment, your father might back off and may even let you go to counseling. But that can change at any moment as your mom's mood changes (and it will). He will probably do whatever he has to, to say out of her line of fire. Granted, he probably isn't conscious that he's doing it, but he is doing it just the same, probably as a reaction, w/o thinking. And that just adds to the dysfunction.

It's amazing how alcoholics & abusers can convince everyone around them, including church leaders, therapists & other experts that they are crazy and not them (i.e. the alcoholic &/or abuser).

I speak from many years of first hand experience and while what one person does may not indicate that's what another person will do, what I have discussed here are classic documented alcoholic behaviors.

You might want to reconsider checking to see if there are any alateen groups in your area. (if you can do so safely) These groups are anonymous and you only use your first name. You can even make up a name if you want. This is sadly a far-reaching problems that affects many many families. So, depending on the size of your town, you might be surprised to see people you know at these meetings!

Alateen is an alanon groups specifically for teens. Even if you go just once, you will see that you are not alone and that there are many who are dealing with family members who have the same kinds of behaviors as your parents. If nothing else, it will help you see that you are not making any of this up.

MTC: You gave a very good summation of living with an alcoholic. Hopefully it puts things into perspective for Violet. I didn't even think about Alateen. That probably is a very good starting place for her to cope with the dynamics of her household.

By accepting alcoholic behavior as being the norm, we set ourselves up to get into alcoholic and abusive relationships because we didn't know anything better.

So by living in this house and not doing anything I'm basically saying that what's going on is not ok but I'm not going to change it?

Violet, the only thing you can change is you. Change is always scary because we aren't sure how what we do will turn out. What we've all been encouraging you to do is to find someone you can trust to help you begin to learn new coping skills and to learn to set healthy boundaries. The best people to help with that are qualified therapists and NOT church ministers. I know you are afraid of going to a therapist and I won't push. But I am stating the facts as to how you can get the best help for your situation.

The other way to get familiar with healthy coping skills and setting & keeping boundaries is to find a good alateen, CODA (co-dependents anonymous) or ACOA (adult children of alcoholics) group. Try several different groups before you decide if its for you.

It's really hard, almost impossible to get healthy when you don't have healthy role models or qualified advisers like therapists. Church officials are usually not qualified unless they are SPECIFICALLY trained in the dynamics of substance abuse and recovery from abuse - which most clergy & YMs are not.

That's why we all keep suggesting counseling. Again - not trying to push, just explaining why.

Sadly, living with dysfunction, alcoholism, co-dependence and/or abuse isn't conducive to anyone in that environment being healthy.