I think your absolutely right. My h has communication issues. He has other issues, also. His inability to communicate along with his other issues made him very susceptible to an affair.

I need to add, he still knew it was wrong so this by no means is an excuse.

Sadly they ALL KNOW IT IS wrong, the problem is they do it anyway, because they are so SELFISH, ENTITLED, self absorbed and need INSTANT GRATIFICATION, without investment....hey maybe we should test them like they want to drug test people on welfare, they are receiving "welfare" for free, that is costing everyone else....

Yes Communication is a problem for them but its also the biggest problem in most relationship. I believe most people don't want to hurt anyone but they are selfish in their action and their thoughts. I believe they all have one thing in common with each other is there looking for their missing thing (most can't tell you what it is but they know they are not getting from you) some call it soul mate, love, understanding of them or show of affection. To me this is a problem of communication from them and understanding of what they need or how to ask it from there partner. And some cases there partner can't or won't try to understand them but this is not very common. When they start an affair they get the rush like we all do in a new relationship the big problem is they should not be in one before they end the one there in. This is the part most of us can't understand I believe. If they love us how could they! I can't answer this one because I don't know but I can't help but wonder if this something we will never understand?

I also think cheaters have a real problem with dealing with things. They either "head in the sand" or "gloss over with self-indulgence" issues in marriage and family. Without dealing they can easily shift the blame to the spouse and carry on as if in the right.

Onyx I am glad you prefaced it with "most cheaters". Every situation is different. I am going out on a limb here and replying...
Communication is key. My H and I had good communication or so I thought. If you were to ask him he would probably tell you the same. There was nothing in our M that would have indicated differently. I love him with all my heart . I think until you have experienced what it is to be on both sides it is tough to understand. I have been on both sides. And you are right...if they loved us then how could "we" have done it to begin with. That is the million $ question right??? I would like to say that some learn from their mistakes. I certainly have....

In our case communication wasn't really the issue.....or was it?
We really didn't communicate a whole lot. He was busy with his things and I with mine. He needs a lot of alone time and I had my whole world wrapped around my kids and work. The kids were my social home life, not my H. I loved the family banter I had with them but it rarely included H. The kids and I did everything together but they were almost grown and it was becoming less and less. I was lonely and felt a little panicky about it being just H and I at home. I was afraid it would be like me living alone with a really nice house plant. Lovely to have around, but not much on the companionship front. I told him I was worried about being lonely and feeling alone without the kids. He felt it would not really be the problem I thought it would be when the time came. that being said, that dynamic was only one of many contributing factors. A small one at that. I was happy with my marriage and was not looking to have an A. There were other much greater contributing factors.

i think thats an overgeneralization

Communication goes both ways. I've noticed on the CA board many talk about their bs not communicating. That they tried to express a desire to improve the marriage and the spouses got complacent and refused counseling and didn't show a desire to communicate.

So yes communication is a huge factor in cheating. Lack of it can seriously effect and weaken a marriage to a point where one of the spouses chooses cheating as the solution.

Even if poor or lack of communication doesn't precipitate cheating, it often precipitates divorce.

"they are so SELFISH, ENTITLED, self absorbed and need INSTANT GRATIFICATION, without investment."

No. I invested everything I had emotionally, physically, financially...everything in every way into this marriage for 12 years with no return on that investment...before I cheated. No one who knows me would ever say I expected instant gratification because it's simply not true.

You can say 'they' as if we are all the same but you don't know me. All you know is that your CS, and others like him, fit your description. To make wide assumptions about an entire group based on one common characteristic or behavior is prejudicial and unproductive. No different than sexism or racism.

I am not wholly defined by a poor set of decisions I made during one of my 47 years of life. That is not who I am, it is what I did.

And, onyx, yes I did eventually take a sledgehammer to our foundation,after 12 years of trying to repair it, while he would come along behind me and undo all the repairs. Any progress I made was countered by his deliberate setbacks so that he could stay in control and never have to risk being emotionally vulnerable. In the end our foundation, what was left of it, was irreparable. I got out the sledgehammer and forced a choice of building a new one or letting the house fall. If I had not it would have fallen anyway. Nothing was lost that we'd ever had in the first place.

Thank you Fiber - well said. Generalizations really do not help anyone here. We're all suffering and there are ALOT of us here who realize we made a bad set of choices - and that this is NOT who we ARE. Yes, there are some people who are repeat offenders - they have serious issues in which they chose either not to get help or not to maintain the help if they see themselves headed down the same path of destruction again be it 1 month, 1 yr or 10 yrs down the line. Its not right to lump all CS together as "THEY ALL" do this...do that... We are all different and are all unique.

And some of us have true remorse and are appalled at what we've done - but aren't just saying it because we got caught. Some of us also worked on ourselves and found the strength to end our As on our own - a good decision - after making such a poor one.

As for myself, I did not wake up that day and make a conscious decision to just turn away and destroy people's lives. It was yrs of trying to communicate with my H and make things work. In the end, yes, I ultimately made a wrong decision. But I truly regret it. It was the worst mistake I've made in my entire life. I'm human. I am not some animal, low life piece of worthless scum. I have never done something like this before and I will Never do something like this again. WHY? because I see how wrong it was. I have been working on myself for months and will continue to do so until i feel I am at a much better place.

So for those of you who feel offended by my "generalized" post...are you saying that when you CHOSE to cheat, to have sex with someone other than your spouse, when you CHOSE to invest in a relationship that was not your marriage...you DIDN'T KNOW it was WRONG??!!! some of us BS have invested and put up with a lot too, and still got cheated on, still destroyed by the one who cheated....cheating is selfish, self gratifying, self centered no matter the defense of it....I understand being left without return on my investment, I understand making mistakes and being remorseful....but priceless things once broken have forever lost value, a crack, a chip, a mar in the surface all discount and lower the value of an object....you ALL still had a choice, and good for YOU wanting to recover what you stole or gave away, it was still YOUR CHOICE, and your BS had no choice in what you did....you knew it was wrong and did it anyway....you know murder is wrong but did you do that as casually as you cheated, I bet not, I bet that you had a final stopper to keep you from that...or are you murder's too....I don't think so...yes human, but choice to do wrong, you can't change that aspect because it is too harsh, you chose it for yourself and your spouse, I DID NOT....instant gratification in that you didn't take the time to divorce FIRST, or end the relationship you were so unhappy in FIRST you ADDED to something that is not set to have additions in the way of ANOTHER lover...sorry for your bruised feelings,(and yes there is some sarcasm in that statement)....what will restore what was taken from me, from my marriage, what was given away by my spouse, his choice only with what was NOT his to give away.....I come here to vent this out, to give to those who deserve to hear just what they have done with their choices....take what works for you and leave the rest, isn't that the motto...there are cheaters out there that need to HEAR/READ exactly what kind of damage their choices have caused, and if you want sugar coating to swallow the pill, don't take the medicine, and if you don't want the medicine don't get the "disease"....don't do the crime if you can't do the time.....all of these type cliche statements cover it......no YOU didn't betray me, no YOU didn't hurt me....yes all situations are different....but YOU ALL CHEATED, I didn't, I could have, but I made better choices, that just makes me a better choice maker.....I CHOSE TO BE FAITHFUL, TO TAKE MY VOWS SERIOUSLY TO A FAULT, and now I am paying for the rest of my life for someone who DID NOT..... thank you from the bottom of my broken heart.....you don't walk in my shoes either, you don't know how much I invested, how many protections I and my spouse had COMMUNICATED INTO PLACE, understood, set boundaries, set signs and reminders into place not only for me, for himself, for our marriage, for our kids and HE IGNORED AND TRAMPLED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM TO THE GROUND AND BEYOND, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW

From my prospective cheating is selfish behavior. I don't think there is any words or way around that one. It just is. Selfish:being concerned with ones self above the concern of others.

That IMO does not mean that all cheaters are all selfish people but they all engaged in selfish activity. My H at the time of his A was a very selfish person. It was a huge part of who he was overall. Cheating was just one of the ways he was selfish.

Since dday he has learned to be much les. Selfish infact I wouldn't use that as an adjective to describe him anymore.

I think as bs most or many of us want to generalize because it makes acceptance easier. I did that for a while because it felt good for the moment to have a reason for his behavior. But as I spent time on multiple boards and learning about so manyndifferent people I came to realize that there are such varying degrees of cheating, remorse, and forgiveness.

Some cs are shaken to their core when their bs finds out and they instantly wake up and realize what they've done and immediately begin their path to rebuilding by doing all the right things. Some cs become abusive and blame the bs and carry on their A with little intent or effort to rebuild, or even leave for the op. with lots of veryistions inbetween.

Some bs immediately choose to forgive, others waffle, some are so devastated that they can't function and still others are at the lawyers office the next day filing for divorce.

The reasons people cheat also vary just as much. While yes the behavior is selfish in nature,mthe reasons cs have for their behavior vary from lack of sex, love, communication to weight, loss of "inlove" feelings, abuse, neglect or ego boost.

I think the only generalization that I see is the act of cheating was meant to satisfy nobody but the cs without regard to the bs. Therefor making it selfish. If there was regard the cheating would not have happened.

Shegave, with respect to the affairs - " they are so SELFISH, ENTITLED, self absorbed and need INSTANT GRATIFICATION, without investment." - You're absolutely right on! Affairs require little to no investment and provide nothing but instant gratification.

Fiber as I read your post I could not help but feel you are blaming your H for you having an affair. And to say you did not want instant gratification... I have to disagree with that statement. Let me explain:

When I read; "I invested everything I had emotionally, physically, financially... everything in every way into this marriage for 12 years with no return on that investment...before I cheated" - I hear "I gave EVERYTHING, he gave NOTHING and I didn't want to wait any longer to get WHAT I DESERVED. So I took care of ME and got it somewhere else NOW."

To me that sounds selfish and in need of instant gratification. And the part about YOU repairing and HIM setting back YOUR progress? I see that as a poorly veiled attempt to push the blame for your poor choice onto him.

To respond to the post in general. I believe most people have communication issues. Whether it be expressing our needs or understanding someone else's. And while a break down in communication can certainly point us toward the temptation of infidelity, it is hardly a force strong enough to push us over that line. That force would be our character flaws - inflated egos, selfishness, low self-esteem, etc., etc. The "dark side of the force" that we all have in us, so to speak.

I would hardly call 12 years 'instant'. My choice to have an affair was mine, alone. The condition of our marriage leading up to that point, the crumbling foundation that I worked to repair while he undermined it, that belonged to both of us. At least, at that stage, I was doing my part to make things better, while he did most of the damage. Don't you fucking judge me while you ignore the truth I'm telling you. You don't know my marriage.

Eventually I gave up, but while I was in it I worked hard for any kind of gratification, and it was anything but instant.