Onyx, I agree with you that in my case lack of communication was an issue, as is with most. For me, my husband hid his feelings from me, when my job required 60-80 hour weeks, and he was jobless, his idle time, turned into dating sites and friend searching, and it was a slippery slope from there.

I don't know if this is a generalization because I don't want to make one, but I do like to know others experiences. My husband seemed to enjoy creating a fake "self" a fake "life"- he would say he was in college going to get his Masters in biology, single, and living in his own apartment- and none of those were true. It was almost as if a self hatred, turned into a double life- him creating someone he is not, but someone he wanted to be. Because of his lack of relationship experience, me being his only one, he seemed to enjoy the games the OW played, the fights, the drama, etc. Just like with me, he was unable to be honest with her about his true feelings, he would rather feed her lies hoping that eventually she will move on and realize the relationship was going nowhere.. I cannot help but feel that the affair awakened a person in my husband that had been sleeping all his life, a desire to not be in a committed relationship when before he loved that about us, a desire to seek out the attention of multiple women as he advertised himself as available (again never an issue before)... I know where the stumbles happened, I know the part I played in not caring for my marriage and putting things above it because I didn't know any better (fearful of losing my job if it wasn't my priority and we needed the income) and so much more... I guess for me, today, I feel closer to my husband than ever before, we have an honesty that I don't think most relationships have and a good line of communication. Its the not being at 100 percent that I get confused. The timeline is confusing, the affair started, it ended, she moved, etc.etc.etc.- basically though, up until May of this year- with separation and affair included, he hasn't been home to truly work on the marriage or agree to. Now, its July, 90 days out I guess, and I see progress- I see the loving nature coming back, the connection, all of those things--- but all of that crumbles when she calls. He does not initiate contact, but he is up front with me when she does, and waits to respond until I know about it- and I am torn between what to do. I am not a forceful person, not one to control others, this his decision who to have in his life- and it is my decision to either walk away or accept him as he is. He listens and explains things to me when I tell him how I don't like her in his life, and he assures me that she is only a friend. I feel pathetic or stupid for not walking away, when so others would-- holding on to a marriage that perhaps is completely hopeless all because of his unwillingness to give her up- even as a friend. Every day I get closer to figuring out a life for myself where I am happy. I guess despite all this rambling, sorry guys, what I am trying to get at is this:
1. Yes, I agree- communication played a role and I also agree with this "but once they bite into that tempting fruit, wickedness and evil come pouring out"-- because it seemed my husband was somewhat of a coward, controlled by the manipulation of the other woman and fear of her actions, and also selfish wanting to keep her in his life and me as well.

2. I don't know if anyone here is 100 percent happy with their marriage yet, and if so, awesome, I hope we are all there someday. For me, I don't know if I can ever get there, or if I am expecting too much too soon- is it wrong to stay, if you feel progress is being made in all areas, but the one where the other woman is not out of his life... do I throw away my marriage, because of that? and embarrassingly enough sometimes I don't want to give her the satisfaction of getting to me, but I am tired of fighting with my H about it really...

thanks for listening to this crazy novel.. thanks for the therapy session, where can I pay for my session? ;)

-Becca

Onyx, unfortunately, your thoughts and perspective in opening this thread were a harsh generalization of the contacted of a group of people who have only one behavior in common. You can't accurately extrapolate the character of the whole group based on that one behavior. That's all I was saying, in response to your and She's generalizations.

And, yes it is personal. You are referring to PERSONS, many of whom are present here! You have to be a little off to think that you can bash a whole group and not one will stand up against it. Others are afraid but I am not.

These kinds of threads only hold you all down in that dark place where sharing your hatred of cheaters is all you have in common. It's not conducive to healing, it's inaccurate, and I think very damaging.

It may be easy or popular to believe that all cheaters are cut from the same cloth, or that healing will never really happen, but healing comes to those who are willing, and the truth is that we cheaters are not all the same.

I am different, not better, but different from the stereotype. And my husband has healed.

And, impono, your wife lies like a rug. No, like a cheater. No better on that point than any of us. If you don't want to head her character challenged then maybe you can get her to step up and apologize. Otherwise I stand by my statement. If cheating made me a Cheater, then lying has forever labeled her a Liar.

Live with it.

How about this fiber - no one is ever - I mean ever - never ever .....- never ever - talking about you - your experience is unique - in any of these post I think we all bring something to the table to share.

Again we are starting a "Dialogue" thats it (it is nothing personal and should not be) - we don't know all the answers (I certainly dont) - do I or any generilize - heck yea - but its not about you or anyone specifically - again we are starting a Dialogue for others to add to and share their experiences in hopefully a non personal againist others manner and hopefully learn and heal from (even being general).

Thank you all for commenting. I hope others get information from these threads from all.

The thing is, onyx, She does talk about me and to me specifically so it IS personal. So does online, and that is also personal.

And I'm included in the group you refer to, so that's personal, too.

Could you honestly say that if I said 'BS got cheated on because they failed to satisfy their spouses' that you, being a member of that group, would not be offended? I don't make such statements because they Can't be true, as the statement Can Not be applied to all in the group. Itmay be true that some did not satisfy their spouses, but that neither excuses the cheating nor applied the the entire group.

When you make a statement about CS in general I feel compelled to point out the glaring error in your statement. If you are bothered by this then my suggestion is that you qualify your statements so they are no longer painting us all with one brush.

My intention is to remain and be vocal as an example of the off cheaters who don't fit the stereotype. You'll become accustomed to me in time.

And my experience is not unique by any stretch of the imagination. Others like me are just too intimidated or don't have the energy to stand up to this kind of crap. But I hear from the same people, saying they're glad that I will stand up. They stay behind the scenes, quietly reading, learning, working on and healing their relationships. They take what is of value and leave the rest without getting dragged down by these battles, which can be detrimental to their healing.

I am not unique. I am not the only one.

To be fair, onyx, it was She and not you who referred to ALL of us, and She who I called on it.

myblvdofdreams - I hope your H does what is needed and you guys become closer and grow old together.

You seem like a very carefing thoughtful person that deserves love and to be charished.

Thanks Onyx, same to you as well. I enjoyed your perspective and your post, it helps me know I am not crazy when I think the things that I do lol.

Yeah Onyx! the next time you start a thread please temper and qualify your statements so you don't upset and offend us CS's .... (sarcasm, Sheldon)

In reality, I like how you post and pull no punches. It makes me stop and look deeper at myself, at my core. I don't always like what I see. But the first step in fixing something is to figure out what's broken.

Thanks for being a good troubleshooter.

" Sadly they (((((( ALL KNOW IT IS wrong ))))), the problem is they do it anyway, because they are so SELFISH, ENTITLED, self absorbed and need INSTANT GRATIFICATION, without investment.....apparently the ALL which was in reference to everyone who cheats KNOWS IT IS WRONG, but I hear that some people don't want to be included in that statement because they didn't know it was WRONG

That's great for you, online, given that you still feel like your core is broken. Some of us have worked out our shit and come to accept ourselves and don't need hard punches to make us look deeper.

We don't need to be targets for misplaced attacks.

Onyx, clinging to the idea that cheaters can be conveniently defined, identified and boxed up for shipping out is, in my opinion, standing in the way of the healing of some people. All the energy you spend trying to find our lowest common denominator could be spent on learning what it is about you that would accept shit from someone like me.

When you have that worked out the rest of it is secondary.

it

does it ever seem, in hindsight, that the one person you know about best is you, having been cheated on, you know what YOU think, feel, fear, rage at

but that really and truly, you cant ever know whats in the mind or heart of the person who cheats on you, or your neighbour, or the cop that pulled you over last week


I suspect it brings some sense of empowerment or satisfaction or righteousness, to insults, impune or belittle spouses that cheat

and I'm in no way condoning cheating

but

having said that,

you loved them once, probably because they seemed like beautiful souls, lovable beings, good good men and women you could commit to

did you suddenly realize you made a grave error? that you were tricked and lied to and that they never loved you? never wanted to genuinely commit to a lifetime with you? that they were never good, beautiful lovable souls?

or were they the same person, but your trust and your feelings were damaged?

could it be they were still the souls you fell in love with a committed to, but they just didnt have the capacity to keep to their vows in those tough moments of temptation, because they, like all of us, have one of the very common human frailties?

I'm just trying to understand the demonizing of people your hearts once loved

Joyride - I don't think onyx or Shegave are demonizing us cheaters, I think they're hurt and damaged because of what we did to their trust. I think WE demonized us. If anything we demonized them by deciding "she doesn't love me anymore". And using that type of false perception as an excuse to roam. The bigger question is: How could we do THAT to someone our hearts loved?

Wow!!!!!!!

Reminder: This is a support group for Infidelity. We trust you will do your best to remain positive and helpful. For more information, see our rules of the road.