And honestly, I don't give a fuck what you and your wife 'hear' when I speak. I say what I mean, which is the truth of our marriage, while you both 'hear' whatever the hell you want filtered through your self indulgent, judgmental, you-and-me-babe-against-the-cheaters delusions. She's never going to forgive you, no matter how many times you back up her attacks. But, fuck, are you ever a great actor.

Bravo. Bravo!!!

I'm not, in general, SO selfish or SO self absorbed, and I do not generally seek instant gratification. In general, I am willing to work hard and long for the joys I have in my life. So, while the choices I made during my affair may have been described in those ways I, as a person, can not. That's not the truth of who I am. That was my behavior under extreme emotional stress.

If you can't separate a person from their behavior you will always judge and never forgive.

Fiber, I don't believe that language is called for. I simply responded to three different peoples posts with my own take on each one of them. All I can say is I must have hit a nerve.

I have re-read my wife's posts here and I don't see any "attacks" She simply posts her feelings and beliefs based on our life and situation. I suppose she struck a nerve as well. As a truly remorseful cheater I am able to step back, look at it objectively and call a spade a spade. I am a cheater, YOU are a cheater. Unlike your H (based on your own observations) There was absolutely nothing my wife did to deserve being cheated on. I support her here, not for redemption or forgiveness. I support her here because with 20/20 hind sight she is 100% correct in my view. And I believe your "assessment" as to whether or not she will forgive me is way out of line and deserves an apology. But thank you for the compliment concerning my acting - how did you know I was an actor?

Now onto the topic of separating people from their actions. You can not and should not. Actions speak louder than words. I think I can "generalize" here and state that ALL people are a sum of their actions. Unless someone was holding a gun to your or your children's head or my or my children's head, our ACTIONS came from us. We were NOT forced to cheat. The actions were our free choice. Being a free choice, they (our actions, good AND bad) are who we are. I am a husband, father, step-father, grandfather, manager, actor, hunter, sailor, home owner, electrician AND cheater. The sooner you (I) admit what you ARE (I am) the sooner you (I) can get help and change the parts of who you ARE (I am) that you (I) don't like.

I believe foul language is against the "be nice" standards of Daily Strength. And that and it helps no one here in the support group atmosphere.

Your good 'Christian' wife uses the same language. Go preach your holier than thou bullshit to her. As for her attacks, they are persistent and about as called for as my language. Just because she hasn't attacked me so directly in this thread as she has in the past does not change our history. She has flat out lied about me (how Christian), told me to leave this board and promoted hatred toward me in clear violation of the promise to be nice.

Defend her all you want, it only reinforces the clear image of the dysfunction the two of you share.

As for separating a person from their behavior, didn't your Lord and Savior do the same for you? Doesn't He hate the sin while loving the sinner? What would Jesus do or say to someone like me if He were here on this board? Would he lie about me as your wife does? Swear like a sailor, as she does? Judge others without judging himself first?

Matthew 7:5 " (NIV) You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

You may both be forgiven your trespasses but that does,not give you permission to treat others like shit or spread venomous lies.

1 Corinthians 10:23 "
All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify."

Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, you and your wife give Christians a lousy name. If I had my way the two of you would take a step back and shut up for a while until you rediscover the importance of humility.

fiber. Being able to quote scripture doesn't impress me. Even Satan knows scripture! But since you felt the need to open up that can of worms, let's put it in proper context, shall we? And why worry about a speck in your friends eye when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying to your friend Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye, when you cant see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friends eye." Mathew 7:3-5 I recognize my sin for the horrible thing it is. I'm working on myself and my issues, while doing what I can to help my wife heal. I am dealing with the log in my eye... are you?
Am I forgiven? Yes but God does not remove the consequences of our sin. Love the sinner, hate the sin? Yes. But recognizing someone's sin, recognizing that that behavior is a part of who they are and pointing out that sin is not hatred. Jesus first called people out of their sin, then forgave them. He recognized sin and hypocrites and called them out. He didn't white wash anything or separate people from their actions. Cleared the Temple in a rage with a whip. Told his disciples: "Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you leave that town. And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them. Mark 6:10,11. My savior called me out, pointed out my iniquities and forgave me.

Now let's address your blatant hatred of my wife. "She has flat out lied about me (how Christian), told me to leave this board and promoted hatred toward me" I have read every word she has written on here and absolutely NO WHERE has she ever lied about you or "promoted hatred" toward you. She disagrees with you and your "I'm Ok, your Ok" philosophy regardless of people's behavior. She believes in right and wrong, black and white. She believes cheating is wrong under ALL circumstances. There is no gray area. She believes in pulling no punches when peoples very souls are at stake. And if you'd actually read her past posts with true empathy for BS's, you'd realize when she used harsh language it was in specific reference to and description of someone's (generally mine) actual behavior. Not "F*&$ You" as yours was toward us. In fact I think it is you, in a VERY passive-aggressive way, who seeks to undermine her advise to others and invalidate her pain. And now you're telling us to "step back and shut up for a while" Exactly how is that different from her telling you to leave this board? I guess you believe two wrongs DO make a right.

Onyx - sorry for the hijack! But you gotta admit, this is some strong "communication"!

She told isitjustme publicly about two weeks ago that I would tell her that her husbands affair was her fault, just like I told She. I never said that to her and you both know it. She FELT blamed when I said something (she refused to specify what that was) and that is how she explained feeling justified in lying about what I said, because it felt that way to her.

She also stated that I was involved in having her run out of CA, which I was not. I had not even spoken to her yet, or read any of her posts, at the time when that happened. To say I was responsible in any way was a either delusion, paranoia or a complete fabrication, but in any case absolutely untrue.

The reason you can't find this lost is because it was removed for being so abusive. She has yet to apologize for bet lies. Instead she justified clearly immoral behavior with "I felt blamed when you said....even though you didn't say it, so it's okay that I Iied about you." Sounds about the same as the blame shifting bullshit of a cheater. So much for being better than me.

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not bear false witness against Thu neighbor. I wonder which of those Commandments is more important than the other? Oh, right. Neither.

I never said Fuck You to either of you. Show me where I have. More fucking lies. And I didn't tell you to step back either. I said that if I had my way, you would. That's a wish, not a command. There's a difference between 'give me a could'Ve and 'I wish I had a cookie'.

And, seriously, how can I undermine her advice when she so rarely gives any? Instead, at almost every opportunity, she used an opening to rant about he'd own pain with often no reference to the poster to whom she's responding.

And I've said nothing, ever, to invalidate her pain. Again, show me where I did. You've read every word I've written to her. It shouldn't be hard to find quotes.

So sick of people putting words in my mouth when what they're really hearing are their own thoughts about themselves.

Get over the bullshit, already. I haven't said or done what you accuse me of.

Can people please leave bad language and personal attacks out of the general posts? Enough is enough! If you want to talk that way to somebody, please put it in a PM. Frankly (Scarlett), the rest of us just don't give a damn and really don't want to read it anymore. It weakens the entire group and detracts from the insights we can offer each other.

When these two stop lying about me and apologize in a manner as public as those lies then I will be happy to settle the rest of this, or ignore them if they so choose, in private. But, no, when my character is being bashed to the whole group and to my detriment in public, then a private settlement of the issue will not restore my reputation.

Bob1111: I liked your comment but will take it a step further. We are ALL out there looking for our missing thing (most of us can't tell you what it is but we know it when we see it). Sometimes we find it, sometimes we delude ourselves into THINKING we've found it, at least temporarily.

Quorazon I agree with fiber on one thing - this should be settled in public, since it's been fought in public.

Fiber - When you state: "If I had my way the two of you would take a step back and shut up for a while until you rediscover the importance of humility." That is a passive-aggressive attack on me and my wife. On our motivation for posting and offering our perspective. In a dysfunctional relationship, passive-aggressive attacks are usually considered a form of emotional abuse. I suppose some people on here may buy into your "difference" between wish and demand, but I'm not fooled. You can't bullshit a bullshitter.

Even on this thread, you started out by discounting and countering everything my wife said and seemed to only throw in an obligatory comment to Onyx. And even that seemed like it was a poorly veiled attempt to justify your poor choice in having an affair.

And when my wife's character is being attacked and challenged... I will stand and fight for her. I know of very few people with her level of integrity to ALWAYS do the right thing, regardless of the consequences. And to stand up against injustice and offer guidance to those who are headed down the wrong path. You may not like her "style", but no one with an objective view can argue with her truths. I certainly can't, and believe me I've tried!

And FYI - my wife "ignored" you quite some time ago and can't see your posts. She only knows what you write, countering her, when we discuss these topics together. We are a team that has taken a very big hit because of me, but we are still a team and working on our issues together.

Once again Onyx - Sorry for the Hijack! I'm done with this (at least on this thread) now.

Fiber - you take things so personally sometimes in these posts.

Please - we are only trying to get thoughts and ideas flowing in general.

You have a prospective and so does everyone else.

It does not have to get personal.

going back to onyx pointm, i agree my CS was selfish its in her nature when it comes to that, we all have selfish thoughts and communication is key in any relationship, my CS only communicated with her mother, who todl her what to do in our house and that caused tension, i admit i was selfish too, i wrapped myself around my kids and my job and supporting our house, i did the laundry the dishes and the cooking, she worked slept and listened to her mother, because i was too tired to help her when she needed physical attention she sought it elsewhere, i told her maybe if you did the stuff around the house i did and helped i wouldnt be so tired, her reply was, well then i would be, another selfish statement