I didn't read through the full length of the last few responses but I did gloss through them. Shenree you asked for cole to clarify why cs confessing would serve the marriage from the cs perspective. You said they knew when they cheated and knew after.

I'll use my personal experience. My H had a 3 year A that resulted in an oc. Dday was when A was long since over and oc was almost 7.

During the A years he became a dick just because he created a scinerio in which his A was justified. New fought and I was demanding blah blah blah.

Once he ended the A and was living with with guilt he became a shell of a man. He believed he was trying to compensate for his A and be a better H than he was during the A but he wasn't. He was just a shadow that didn't treat me like shit, bought me flowers and took me out. We were only going through the motions.

Our marriage was deteriorating year after year because of his guilt and who it made him. He never fully invested in the marriage because he was not whole. I always suspected but after a few years stopped asking if he cheated.

Dday occurred after I had had enough of the soulless marriage and seperated. He couldn't take that he was the cause of the marriage ending and the years of distance and unhappiness. Yes his confession was self serving in a sense but he spent years fearing the inevitable pain when he told me what he had done.

He is a different man without that guilt. He is a better man without those lies festering beneath every word, every argument, every kiss. Living with lies destroys people from the inside out and will inevitably destroy their relationships too.

He said that even if I didn't forgive him and give him a second chance that he knew telling was the best thing he could have done for himself. And I felt it was the best thing he could have done for me. So yes it was self serving yet at the same time it served me as well.

Pink: I'm so sorry. That had to be some really hard times. It's good that your H, or XH, came to the right conclusions about the truth eventually. Good that it set him free from his self-made prison. Is it good for you that you found out? Did it change anything in regard to any relationship with him? Did it change you anyway on a personal level? I hope there was some good outcome for you.

Cole: You said, "Healing means what does it take to restore the marital bonds and intimacy to where it should be. There will be scars. Like you said, one builds to a new "normal." You can't go back to the way things were before the A. But the question is whether the couple can rebuild to a new normal that heals the marriage and makes it vibrant again, even more so than before in ways."

Ok. I think maybe I can get that. Though a bit vague for me. I'm not really sure "where it should be." I mean, determining "where it should be" after betrayal is not like determining "where it should be" before betrayal. Or, at least it feels that way to me. Those scars you mention seem to prevent it ever being even close to where it was...in my mind...in my estimation...my belief...my heart. I think I shared that in "some ways" it is acceptable. In some ways, I know he came to understand his previous lack of choice...and then valid choice...even if far late in the game. I spent some time actually feeling somewhat sorry for his plight. I mean, he gambled and he lost something that he hadn't quite accepted the value of until he no longer had it. Uh-oh!

He was truly sorry when it was lost, but it was still lost. I think that any CS knows they are bound to lose something if their behavior is revealed. I'm pretty sure that's why they do their best to keep it hidden? They know they're going to lose something? Maybe not exactly what? Maybe not exactly how much of what? If they think they're not risking a divorce, then at the very least they must be willing to risk losing the love in the relationship? Either that, or they believe there is no loss or retribution they will suffer at all? That's a really scarey thought for me. Maybe somewhat like viewing the workings of a minor sociopath?

I think at the time they feel it is a worthy exchange. I'm not sure what exactly happens when the actual real loss is evident. Somehow, though my H suspected some possible losses, he seemed quite shocked at what and how much? Wow! And, what less could he expect really?

I mean, if I took it upon myself to engage in such behavior I would be considering the "ultimate" cost and not something less than that. It wasn't as if he was, or even could possibly be, unaware of the results of betrayal? Or, maybe he thought that it didn't matter at the time. Well, true, apparently it didn't as long as his behavior was secret. No bill. No costs. No results. He told me that at some point, that he figured the thrill was worth the losses...in his fantasy estimation. That is, until reality hit him in the gutt. Seemingly, he wasn't quite as willing...or able...as he thought. Too bad in many ways?

You shared, "Exactly my point in saying the BS is hurt and the marriage damaged even if the BS doesn't know about it. Sure, they are not crying their eyes out. They're not experiencing heart palpitations from the stress (I feared my body might just stop working at one point from the stress). But they should be..." True. I wasn't crying my eyes out at all. I was busy living the life "I" imagined. I wasn't hurt from what I didn't know. I definitely got hurt from what I did know when the time came. And, there were so many years to recolor. Wow...what a task. I didn't seem to choose to do that retrospect paint job, it just happened automatically. If it hadn't hurt so bad, it might well have been the most grand joke of all times. But, it did, so it wasn't.

I dunno all the details and intricacies Cole. I do know a few things. This isn't my first rodeo. My first marriage of twelve years ended in divorce at my behest. I had suspected cheating but remained unsure..until I wasn't. When I wasn't, I knew what was best for me at that time. I knew that I would never forget it. I knew that it would become a big problem for me. I knew that I had wasted twelve years. And, I knew that I wasn't willing to waste another day. I was young and full of hope. So, I didn't. Though I ended that marriage forthwith, I was never the same person again. I had been damaged seriously by all of the lies and subtrofuge. I didn't know just how much until the most recent six years of my life. Ah, the damage an untrustworthy person can inflict. That's why I knew for a certianty that this immediate betrayal would change me...I had been there....and done that. So, I waited patiently to see the new me. I already knew I would be saying goodbye to the old me.

I suppose it's a bit late to warn a CS that there are costs. Since they are a CS already, the costs are in the making. I can say this, that both my Xh, and my current H, would have maintained some sort of respect from me if they had enough gutts to tell the truth. And, I wouldn't have suffered so much damage had either of them had the gutts. The truth is a gift disquised as a bomb. The bomb does do damage, but the gift is freedom from suspicion, freedom of choice, freedom from a prison of illusion and delusion. Though I suffered great damage, I am still glad I know the truth. I know that I'm not just a suspicious person, and untrusting person, a mentally damaged person. I know the truth and the truth set me free of that at the very least.

It did not set me free from some of the costs, but it freed me to make my own choices, and to continue life in any way I chose. I mean, marriage is a very restricting way to live, and it must be entered into with the committment to living within those confines. It isn't easy. I mean, there are sooooo many concessions a person must make to be married. It wasn't like I had complete marital bliss. Not like he was just Mr. Wonderful and every day was Disneyland. Ha! Hardly! And I don't expect that I was, am, or will ever be Ms. Wonderful either. I am some days....HA!

The fact that I had remained true to my vows did not mean that I wasn't sometimes bored, or discontented, or irritated. I was too. Just like him. Just like most anyone who has been married on the longterm. Or, at least all of the longterm marrieds I know. I think that I just took my vows very seriously. And, I considered that my actions do not occur in a vacuum when I have promised my life to another. There are obligations. I feel like I "owe" that person some consideration?

I feel like a BS before discovery is somewhat forced to live in those confines when the CS has set themselves free of them. I think that the truth changes "all" of that mindset. Or, it did for me. I was suddenly freed of all marital constraints. I was back at square one, but with a different set of beliefs and facts to make my decision with. I do like freedom. I do like to make my own decisions. And, I let my H know that right away. Now, you have broken the marriage vows. So, now, I am free to do anything I wish to do. The rules have changed. The environment has changed. And, I will let you know whether or not I feel there is any substantial interest in this relationship now. It is not what I supposed it to be. So, I'm not sure if I want to commit to "this."

My H too made great effort to reinstate the marriage agreement. Suddenly, he found that he had great interest. He did have a huge amount of misconceptions about how I might really feel were I queried. He found out what I really feel. I decided that someone needed to be honest, and since he seemed quite honesty challenged, likely that would be me. I figured, hey, ya got me. Wanna' know in what way, how much, and why? Well, ya hang around here a bit and you're very likely to find out. Yes, you hurt me. But, nothing you can do or say will ever be allowed to destroy me. I loved you. I honored you in every way I knew how. Ya really got me! Feel better now?

I asked myself a lot of questions, as only I have the answers. I know for a fact that I would never involve myself in any intimate relationship again with anyone at all for any reason at all. So, I weighed the benefits of the current relationship. I weighed the good parts as well as the detriments now imposed. I inquired of him about why he had stayed at all, and what it was that he personally valued. When I got those answers I weighed them as well. I decided that at this particular juncture in life, this advanced age, that I was not necessarily willing to cut bait immediately. Maybe a bit of curiosity about what else might be viable? I certianly felt what wasn't viable?

I knew that things had changed. I knew that I would likely always be somewhat guarded with him, particularly sexually. I enjoy his company for the most part. Question became I think, is sexual intimacy going to outweigh all of the good parts of the marriage? I mean really that's where the damage occurs right? Well, at least for me it was. Sexual intimacy. Romantic intimacy. What is it worth at this time in life? I lost the major importance of those. I mean, they certianly hadn't served me well? I sometimes miss those ol feelings of intimacy on that level. And yet, there is so much damage in that arena I just can't imagine a cure. If you know one, please share.

TT: You shared, "I believe it would not affect me today as it did with my ex. I believe it has changed my thoughts/reactions/connections in such a way that, while sounding negative, it's just being realisitc. When the person you loved does that to you, I don't see how someone can continue wearing the rose colored glasses and skipping through life."

I believe it wouldn't affect me the same either. Realistic? That's a good word. I think that the rose colored glassed get crushed in that scenario. I can't even find the broken pieces of them really. So, I am realistic I think. It seems to me like upon discovery I was hurt so bad my first priority was to gain a perspective where it is impossible to feel that particular level of hurt again. I hope like H I'm there!

Hey Sheen, I copied this paragraph from reply #18:

"I suppose it's a bit late to warn a CS that there are costs. Since they are a CS already, the costs are in the making. I can say this, that both my Xh, and my current H, would have maintained some sort of respect from me if they had enough gutts to tell the truth. And, I wouldn't have suffered so much damage had either of them had the gutts. The truth is a gift disquised as a bomb. The bomb does do damage, but the gift is freedom from suspicion, freedom of choice, freedom from a prison of illusion and delusion. Though I suffered great damage, I am still glad I know the truth. I know that I'm not just a suspicious person, and untrusting person, a mentally damaged person. I know the truth and the truth set me free of that at the very least. "

This was wonderfully put. Can I have permission to put this quote on CA?

Also, in regards to your thoughts on what the CS thinks they might end up losing, I don't think I'm unique in that I allowed myself to think about the consequences very very little, however I couldn't prevent it entirely. When I thought about it I would have near panic attacks. It was so much easier to bury those thoughts as deeply as possible along with a bunch of other stuff. I don't think I have ever been so mentally disciplined in my life as I was during my A time. I now try to tap into that mental discipline for the right reasons. i.e. to guard my thoughts, to heal and rebuild my shattered self so I can most effectively rebuild my shattered H.

It actually never occurred to me that I might lose my M or my H. I felt that if I got caught there would be much suffering. I had said that if I got caught I thought my H would be destroyed. I thought he would never look at me with that adoring expression again. I knew the absolute trust I had would be destroyed. I never ever entertained any thoughts to confess. That thought would have horrified and terrified me and at the time I would have felt that it would be mean. In fact, though I obviously didn't pray much during my A time, I did ask God to spare him from finding out and experiencing that pain. I seriously thought it would be a horrible thing for him to find out for the sake of everyone involved. Well, of course, it was horrible, but that was not a prayer God would have answered. Especially since the only other prayer I prayed, in a moment of clarity, was for God to save me from myself. I now know that getting caught was the only way for that to happen.

Gab: What is CA?

About your post. It raises some questions in my mind. We are all so very different. Maybe you'd care to discuss it a bit further?

For instance, you shared, "When I thought about it I would have near panic attacks. It was so much easier to bury those thoughts as deeply as possible along with a bunch of other stuff." Do you mean it was easier to bury the thoughts than to do what the thoughts suggested were best? Or, it was easier to bury the thoughts than to stop behaving that way? Or,it was easy to bury the thoughts than to tell the truth? Or it was easier to continue what you wanted to do without the costs of doing so?

I'm not quite sure how a person buries thoughts that must happen most every day. You were living with Cole right? You saw him every day? According to him you were having sex with him daily, or sometimes more than daily. So, how could you bury the fact that you were also sexing with someone else? You shared, "allowed myself to think about the consequences very very little..." Are you suggesting that when you were with your H, or with the other, no thoughts occured about either the marriage, or the outcome of your cheating? Maybe you can explain how you did that? I'm not sure I get how.

You shared, "It actually never occurred to me that I might lose my M or my H. I felt that if I got caught there would be much suffering." So, you never thought that you H might want a divorce after so much lying and subtrofuge? Why? You admit that you knew there would be suffering, his I suppose? And yet, you believed (why?) that he would not hurt enough to require your absence? What would make you believe that? If the behavior, along with the lies, subtrofuge, manipulation, etc, isn't enough for a divorce, what is in your estimation? I'd really like to know.

You shared your thoughts, ". I had said that if I got caught I thought my H would be destroyed. I thought he would never look at me with that adoring expression again." Well, I can maybe get that statement partially. I mean, who is ever going to adore a person who was capable of that kind of continued behavior and deception? I know that I agree with that conclusion. I would never, ever, expect that my H would adore me if I treated him in that manner, or anyone else for that matter. I mean, who would? I would find it difficult to even like them, much less adore them.

You admittedly believed that your H would be hurt, and that you'd lose his adoration, and yet, you continued? Was his love for you, his adoration, his respect not enough to choose to avoid cheating? I'm pretty sure my H came to that conclusion too. I mean, I know, that he knew if and when I found out that I would no longer adore him either. And, I'm sure that he suspected much more loss than that. I believe at the time, as he shared with me, that he felt he was willing to make that trade. He thought he was until the bill came due. Suddenly, the trade didn't seem quite equal. And, suddenly, he wanted to alter his own analysis. Though, I know for a fact that he had been willing to make that trade. The fact that he did what he did is obvious evidence. To say otherwise would only amuse me.

You shared, "I never ever entertained any thoughts to confess." So, though you concluded that the adultry was more important than trust and honesty in your relationship with your H, you never thought it wise to let him decide what he might like to do? Was there no consideration of what he might want to do given your dissatisfaction with your marriage? What were your conclusions about his right to live life as he might choose?

You shared,"That thought would have horrified and terrified me and at the time I would have felt that it would be mean." It would be mean to tell someone the truth, and give them the right to make their own decisions about what they might like to do given the truth and circumstances? How is giving someone the absolute facts, and letting them decide what they want to do mean? I think that offering the truth and letting someone make valid choices about their own life is the most telling evidence of respect. And, refusing to do that because of personal loss is the most telling of disrespect I can think of.

You shared, "In fact, though I obviously didn't pray much during my A time, I did ask God to spare him from finding out and experiencing that pain." Maybe it would have been far more wise to pray for insight into your own mind and intentions? Or to pray for your own strength to act with honor and integrity? It seems as if your prayer was aimed in the wrong direction somehow.

I think prayer is the ultimate thing we need to do. But, prayer without action seems a bit futile? You commented, " Especially since the only other prayer I prayed, in a moment of clarity, was for God to save me from myself." That seems a viable prayer in a way. But, I think that action speaks louder than words in so many ways. Is it true that you continued this A until you were actually caught? You hadn't stopped. Even though admittedly you knew you were risking pain to many. So, I could understand prayer if you had stopped. But, I don't understand prayer while you continued. Maybe you could expand a bit?

You shared, "I seriously thought it would be a horrible thing for him to find out for the sake of everyone involved." Who is everyone? And why?

You shared, "I now know that getting caught was the only way for that to happen." Why? Stopping your behavior, the lies, the deception was always an available choice.

It seems like Cole is attempting to understand the reasons why a CS should confess. There is likely a list a mile long.

The first and foremost of these in my estimation is that the CS has the obligation to tell the truth and let the cards fall as they may. Just simple human courtesy at it's most base level, much less in a so-called "love" situation requires honesty if there is any value at all. I mean, I expect more out of a simple business transaction than outright lies. And, there is far less cost to that than a marriage. A business transaction can cost a bit of money. But, a cheater can cost their spouse and entire lifetime. Pretty expensive? I've yet to see the person that is worth that kind of expense. Perhaps they think so? But, I don't.

In my estimation, the BS does not owe much consideration to a marriage with a person who is not even the least minimumally respectful. I mean, so the CS has the desire to cheat. Ok. so, say so, and let the spouse evaluate this new information and come to their own conclusions about how they might like to proceed. Maybe they won't even care? Maybe it doesn't matter a whit? Maybe they want to change things? Maybe they don't? But, making their decisions for them seems quite unrealistic? How very disrespectful that seems to me.

In every betrayal situation I've ever seen, the betrayer betrays in order to gain something for themselves. And, they also choose to deny the other the right to make decisions that may well fail to serve the wants of the betrayer. Is there something I'm missing here? Do I fail to see something? If so, let me know, I'd love to hear it.

SheenRe,

Gabi had a tough day yesterday and didn't have the energy to even get on DS. But she does plan to respond.

Meanwhile, she did mention she wanted to post the link to a response to PinkPony along the same lines, she titled "Not Why, But How."

http://www.dailystrength.org/people/602693/journal/3778455

It may not answer all your questions, but should give a running start until she can jump back on the forum...maybe later today.

Also, it might be good to read up on the psychological compartmentalization process, which she experienced and is common to a lot of cheaters when what they are doing doesn't jive with their values and stated morals/beliefs/goals/desires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_%28psychology%29

Oh yes. CA = Cheater's Anonymous forum.

Thanks for the link Cole. I've read about compartmentalization before, but I refreshed myself. Interesting concept?

Yes, interesting. I understand what happens in compartmentalization, but I have a hard time seeing how that works out practically.

My theory is one's ability to do that relies heavily on receiving your esteem from what other people think. Her APs boosted her self-esteem because she felt desirable and sought after, and it gave her that rush. But if I found out, I would think less of her and her self-esteem would go down. So in an effort to avoid conflict and disappointing people, she restorted to keeping these two lives in their own separate worlds.

Sort of like what Windows does to multi-task. It isolates a running program, so in theory if it crashes, it doesn't take down the whole system.

Of course, the odd thing is the APs knew about me, the last one even knew she had sex with me often and it bothered him. So he wasn't so compartmentalized, but I certainly was. But I know, it has more to do with what is going on in her mind than my life.

Still, one would think it would be very hard to trick one's self into doing that. But maybe that's because I'm not a multi-tasker like she is. I'm on DOS, she's on Windows. If part of my life spins out of control, the rest of it's pretty much going downhill too.

Hi Sheen, I see Cole sent you a link to the Not Why But How journal entry. Thank you for the comment on that. I will try to address some of the things in reply #21. I will say first that it is really really hard to answer to some of this stuff now in a way that makes any sense at all. I think the farther I get from it the less sense it makes, and yet, I did it. I lived it. I have not forgotten what I was doing and what was happening to me. Cole and I still discuss this stuff from time to time and yes, it hurts go to there still, but I don't shy away from the hard discussions.

Part of what causes it to make so little sense is the crazy mental gymnastics that my mind went through over the course of my descent into infidelity. It's a progression leading deeper and deeper in. The compartmentalizing thing is powerful, allowing me over time to develop what felt like living two lives. Separate yet intertwined. At some point, far far into the process, when I had given up fighting against it and accepted it, It seemed so simple to my addiction fogged brain. I loved 2 men and that was that. I could keep them both happy because by that point I felt I had little choice. I was no where near ready to end it with OM but he was not my real life. He was the fantasy life. I knew it was wrong and that I shouldn't be in this relationship with him, but I was, and it felt too late to go back. It felt like by that time I just had to ride these rapids to the bitter end.

I'll deal with some of the specific questions. It was easier to bury the thoughts than to let myself face up to them. How is that done? Partly by compartmentalization, partly by just accepting the situation as it is and by pushing the thoughts away. Not unlike how I recovered from the affair by not allowing certain thoughts head space. Push them away because they go against me achieving what I am after. At that time what I was after was finding a way to make it work. Now what I am after is to be 100% out of it and deal with my issues to stay that way.

As far as divorce goes, I could not imagine that I suppose. I think I knew that if he found out he would give me a chance to make it right and I knew if that happened I would do whatever it took. I think the affair just seemed so surreal. I still felt so much more connected to my real life I guess I just could not imagine that ending. So why did I put it all at risk then? I don't really know. It just happened. Stupid reason. One step at a time deeper and deeper with the blinders on. Trying not to notice how deep the quicksand is getting. Denial, rationalization, crossing one boundary after another, thinking it's under control until you have to admit that it's not and then feeling like it's gone too far to go back.

So why not just tell and end it? Because that's a horrifying thought. Too hard to face and along with all the other rationalizations you are by then convinced that you just have to make it work and you are convinced that your spouse isn't hurt until or unless they find out. It seems at the time that finding out is the worst thing that could happen and you fight like mad to avoid that so telling is obviously not on the agenda. Some cheaters do get to the point of telling. It's possible I would have eventually gotten to that point. You see, I needed the fog in order to believe all the lies I was telling my own self. If I had come to the place of the fog clearing, I don't think I would have been able to live with keeping it hidden forever.

So much of your thoughts in the reply are based on rational thought. Like why didn't I think he had the right to know? etc... Unfortunately there wasn't much rational thinking going on. Affairs are indeed excruciatingly selfish. All is done to indulge the desires and give in to the temptation. All the mental gymnastics, blocking and personal deception, including thinking that somehow this is all separate from the marriage and can be managed as such. It really is extremely convoluted, addiction driven thinking.

That's what makes it so hard when it's all over, the fog clears and clarity sets in. the extreme disparity between who we know we are and who we became during the A. I think those two people can only co exist in the fog.

Sheen, I'm sorry I didn't get back to your questions. He is still my H. His truth came after I seperated and realized I had what it took to do this whole single parent thing. My fears were faced and he saw that.

Hearing the truth, well it was surreal. I can still remember it. I felt like I was floating in the area but not really there. Does that make sense?

I would have to imagine its like a person who knows they are I'll. They go from dr to dr with symptoms only to be told they are fine. Or it's minor. But they know something is brewing, something not simple or easy but something hug.

Finally they get the right dr and take the right test and find out they have diabetes, cancer, or heart disease., and it will result in lifelong commitment to staying healthy. While that person has been given a devastating blow that requires immediate attention, it also gives a certain sense of relief. Finally to be told your not crazy and that there are answers.

When we have no answers but know there are answers to be given we can allow that to eat us up. Having the truth no matter how long it took to get it was a relief. We remained together and spent a long time working on rebuilding.

It was not easy and often times I wanted to give up and stop trying but I didn't and I don't regret that. We are happily married and I trust him as much as I can. It will never be 100% and that's ok.

My H is a good man who did some really shitty stuff. He learned to compartmentalize his life at that time. According to his memory, he kept his 2 worlds very seperate. Of course he didn't realize how much his guilt, or whatever it was, affected his home life. He runs a business and so it was easy in a sense because he's barely home.

I've learned to forgive my H and do 2 things. 1 I seperate the past from the present and 2 seperate the man from his actions.

If I couldn't forgive and seperate these things, I would not be able to be where I am today. Not every cs works hard enough for this, and not every bs cares to put the time in, or just doesn't feel able to go through that.

Infidelity effects everybody differently from both the bs and the cs point of view.

I'm not sure why I was able, and willing to work on the marriage. I didn't come from a broken home or a home with infidelity. Maybe seeing so many of my family members stay together made it seem more normal to try to work through even the shittiest of situations. I'm not sure.

I can say though, that if my H wasn't as sure about me/us, It probably wouldn't have ended up where it is. Chances are, if he just let me continue running, it would have ended.

Gab: Thank for your fortitude. It must be very hard to live with those excruciating mistakes. I can respect that...a lot. Must be really, really tough. But, there's nothing I can think of that feels quite better than to look into a mirror...inside...and be proud of what I know is there. I mean, I've made some serious errors in life too. Not to that magnitude. But, enough that I was ashamed of my behavior, and it was very difficult to face in myself and admit openly. Nice thing is...I will never, ever, make those particular mistakes again. Whew!

I guess that's the stuff that a person is made of....those errors that teach so very well. It seems that learning never ends. I learn new things all the time. I just have a distinct distaste for the really, really, bitter ones. OUCH! I really just wanna laugh now. I've had enough of the tough stuff. Enough that I refuse to let anyone take me there. If they're going to remain in my presence, they'll have to get their smile on...not much else will do. HA!

As I shared with you on your journal, no one is immune, anyone could give into those feelings. I believe that everyone faces them at one time or another. I'm likely as immune as most anyone could be (for a plethora of reasons...and no...didn't start out 'quite' like hat), and yet, I "know" that there is little impossible on this planet. I think that's why when I would get even a twinge of "crazy" (no, I'm not entirely immune, but I'm not very vulnerable at all) I ran like crazy. Not gonna get me. I won't allow it.

My X was a real humdinger. He must have lived so compartmentalized that he wasn't even sure of his own name...ha! I know what I then suspected. Thank the Lord for that! He nearly drove me crazy, tried to I'm pretty sure, before I acquired the evidence I needed to comfort myself out of pure insanity. A person really can lose it. Don't ever wanna lose it! So, the truth...SET ME FREE! Free from horrible stress. Free from feeling so crazy...and guilty...and confused so much of the time. A permanent reprieve from a life of misery.

Unfortunately, for both of us I'm sure, he wasn't the source of the truth. Too bad. Still to this day, I'm sure, he isn't quite person enough to admit it. Let's just say he never has. Though, he knows I know for a fact. He just can't take responsibility for himself. He isn't big enough. He just can't take it. So sad for him. I forgave him long, long ago. I know that he is permanently messed up because he can't face the truth. SAD!

My current H (bless his wee heart) did get to the truth somewhat after the fact...well...far after the fact. He didn't get there until he had alienated our daughter (the one who gave me the truth), and until he realized the ultimate costs. Too bad! I could have maintained some sort of respect for him had he been willing to bite the bullet, even after our daughter discovering a bit of his secret life. He didn't.

I was never so shocked before. I stood aghast observing him attempting to manipulate our daughter. You know, her feelings were so tangled, and so struggling for hope. I hate watching that. I have been there before. It's one of the most miserable things I've ever encountered in life. And, in that time frame, those minutes, my entire perspective changed. If he had every thought of doing something that would gain him my most intense attention, that was it. Now it's on!

I observed a man I didn't know, and worse, had obviously never known. Well, that changed the scene a whole lot. I may be slow, but I'm blasted well sure...ha! Once again, I was relieved to find the truth, or at least enough to identify the situation, though I hadn't really had many twinges along the way. I reallllllly trusted this man. Wow! I look in retrospect and sometimes wonder why. But, I don't like to live in retrospect much. Doesn't serve much use for me. The facts...I like to stay with those. Works far better.

Needless to say, I'm sure, the physical and emotional shock was terrible and very dangerous. I think I was fortunate at this stage of life, health, etc., that it didn't literally kill me. You know, heart attack, stroke. I'm no youngster and a bit old for such nonsense now. I often just sat and stared at him, when I could tolerate looking at him at all, and I really wondered who is this person? How could I have lived with man for 25 or so years and not see him? What the? Well, hello, now we get to know each other far better.

I can't even accurately describe the plethora of thoughts and emotions that ran through me at that time. After having been through the "crazy" before, the added crazy was nearly too much for my logical mind to endure and remain intact. Perhaps far too many years invested? So much of life destroyed? I found the truth to be liberating, and yet, so shocking. I knew that from that moment on, whatever I chose to do, I would never feel the same again. And, my most important task was to get all of the facts I could, and refuse to let the confusion, hurt, and shock push them from me. The truth was my anchor and my beacon.

In all of that, sometimes, rarely, I could look at my H and feel sorry for him too. Wow, you have destroyed your life, my life, and seriously damaged your daughter's life too. How difficult it must be to be you. Though I'm seriously damaged now, I couldn't hold a candle to you. He looked like a person who was on the verge of total internal collapse. The bill had come due, and it was a really big one.

I did what I do. I observed. I evaluated. I prayed for guidance. My marriage had been important to me. My family more so. My spiritual faith, number one. So, I thought to myself, dear husband of mine, now, you may well have cost me my soul. The Bible says not to fear those who can hurt your body, but fear those who can steal your soul. And, given the extent of the damage, and my spiritual beliefs, I was at that crossroad. You see, I'm believe in the words of Christ. And, because I do, I knew that I had to find a way to forgive in order to redeem my own soul. And, yet, this time, I didn't believe I had it in me to do that. And, if I couldn't, the cost would be to me. The most costly thing of all. I found that way, over a long period of time and struggle. And yet, I will never be the same. I mourn that simple sweet woman.

Needless to say, I had yet to encounter such drastic cost. Even my X, and he was a mean and viscious person sometimes, did not have the ability to shake my faith, or my resolve. But this man, I trusted, and that was nearly my undoing. I learned that I had never really trusted anyone before him (and likely to never trust another after him). I learned that I had mistakenly placed trust in another person. That cost can be tremendous. It was tremendous for me.

So, when I say it is a bit late to warn an active and lying betrayer of the costs, I mean that. Because, the costs are already in force, and they are only awaiting the bill. And the bill can be huge. I'm sorry to say that some of the folks I've spoken to since then, about these things, succombed to the insanity given to them and ended their life. The most costly of costs. I mourn their loss though I did not know them outside of the group arena.

I do though, in my way, attempt to warn. Because though I have little, or no, use for betrayal, I know that a person's entire life is at stake. Maybe much more than one. They may not know that. They may be oblivious. But, the facts are still there.

A couple of folks in my lifetime have given me the ultimate gift. That is the gift of truth. Often, that gift cost them in some way. It cost my daughter aplenty. But, in the gifting they may well have saved my life in more ways than one. So, though it hurts, though it damages, though it changes everything, it is still the most valuable gift I can imagine. And, even if that gift comes later and not sooner, it helps in so many ways. I know I'd rather be unhappy for while, in pain for a while, than quite literally destroyed mentally. It isn't the truth that destroys, it is the lies.

I have survived all of that. And, my spiritual faith is intact. That is what is most important to me. My H has survived it and came out a much finer person that he ever imagined that he could be. Though I was hurt and angry, I reminded him that inside him, down buried deep somewhere was a man that I had faith in. There was a good man in there, hidden beneath the layers of self-deception and treachery. And, I let him know that my hope was that..that man survive and recover his sanity.

I love him. I care for him at every level. But, I don't trust him. You see I suspect that was my error. I think the Bible indicates that it is folly to trust any man (human) as they always fail. But, it is wise instead to trust in God, because He never fails. And, I've found that it is best to trust in me, that I will do what is best and make the right choices along the way.

Yes, I lost a few things through all of this. I'm not likely to ever recover them. I've done awful things myself that I would never repeat again, because I learned what they really meant. I learned what they meant to me, inside, and I learned what they meant to others outside. And, I learned to choose better, finer, more respectfully to myself and others. But, I didn't lose what is most important to me. I haven't lost my faith. I haven't lost my resolve. I haven't become that which I detest when displayed in others. I know that I am just as human as they, and that "there but for the grace of God go I." And, I am thankful that God has helped me become a better person. And, I pray that He will continue to help me become a better person. And I pray that He will help others in the same empathic way.

I comment you for the truth Gaby...as it is the only valuable thing both for yourself and others. I try very hard to hold onto it and to live it in real time. I hope I always will.

Pink: You shared, "not every bs cares to put the time in, or just doesn't feel able to go through that." So very true. I know that but for my spiritual beliefs I wouldn't have. In fact, I couldn't have. So, I'm very thankful for those. Our marriage is likely as it might well be six plus years after D-day. I love my H. I lost some things. My H loves me. He lost some things. And, we both gained a few too.

I could only wish though, and it is just a wish, that I could wake one day, roll over and look at him, and feel as I once did...before all of that. I know it's impossible, and yet I find that upon occasion, if I allow myself the temptation to think about it, I wish it could be. I once felt so safe with him, so warm, so secure, so cherished, so comfortable. Silly woman. I often think it's a bit weird that I can be such a logical, organized, analytical person, and yet so sensitive and imaginative.

Well, in ways I feel that way now, and in others not so much. I suppose it just wasn't meant to be that way. It shouldn't have been I suppose, and it can't ever be now for sure. I sometimes wonder if I will ever cease to have that wee bit of grief for what I was once able to feel. That particular lady was much different from the "now" me. In ways, I look back and she seems so silly. And, in others, so free. I was free in a different way then. I am free now too, but far differently. But freedom will do.

Cole: The way I've come to reckon with the theory of compartmentalization is that it is very much like failure to listen to one's own conscience. I think the Bible discusses that like thinking in a manner that indicates a person ignores their own conscience, the conscience is eventually silenced, the person comes to believe their own lies, and is destroyed. So, when my Hs psych suggested compartmentalization I found it not very surprising.