Cole, i didn't follow the link, because my mind is made up on the subject.
A CS won't confess or porivide full disclosure if they don't want to work on the marriage period end of story. I only know what I know from what I stumbled upon. If the CS does want to work on the marriage they may want to keep some things hiddden out of,
embarrasement - image, real concern to add to the pain of the BS, fear, power
I think a marriage can be saved, I think full disclosure is the way to go but then that is an easy opinion for me as I'm the BS

I suspect the ratio of CS who willingly confess is much smaller to that of the CS who confessed after getting caught. Isn't it, typically, after being caught, they feel sad/guilty/ etc etc....you know, all those feelings that should have prevented the affair to begin with seeings the marriage was oh-so-important to them?

Actually TTM #2 reply is way better than what I said, thnx

True, the bulk won't confess until getting caught. I even said as much in the article. But maybe a few will wake up if they read it. Even if it is a small handful, it is worth it.

But I'm unsure what having one's mind made up has to do with it. The article is more likely to validate you made up mind than attempt to change it. This is a BS giving his reasons why a CS should confess. Are you afraid I'll try to convince you they shouldn't.?

I think cheaters confess for the same reasons they cheat- selfishness.

They can't stand the guilt, so they tell to feel relief, never minding what it could do to the other partner.

Deli,

Off course those that do confess do so because of guilt. I'd consider that a good thing. Is it selfish? Yes, as most all our motivations have a selfish basis. However, they would feel no guilt if they didn't care in some fashion for the other person. Motivating people to set things right is what guilt is supposed to do.

The time to think of the other partner is before having an A. After that, the damage has been done. Marital cancer is eating away at the relationship. I know some BSs would rather live a lie than know the truth, but I don't think that is healthy for either spouse in a relationship. The sooner it is out in the open, the sooner it can potentially be healed or the couple go their separate ways.

There are situations it is best not to tell, but in my opinion, those are the exceptions.

I'm not sure why they cheat to begin with...which is bucket full of lies that serve their momentary slef-serving attitudes...pretty much. I don't know why they bother to confess anything after being caught...because they're already caught. I can see someone confessing before they get caught if they've figured out that for whatever strange reason they want to maintain the marriage relationship after they've already trashed it. And yet, that seems counterproductive too. What is there to gain from telling at that point. If the BS is completely unaware, what good is the confession, but to serve the CS? I think that if I lost my mind...or something...and found the need to cheat...I'd just leave to begin with before I destroyed my own integrity. Once they're caught, I think confessing might well be good for them? I see no real purpose of telling the person who knows...what they already know?

#7 "I'm not sure why they cheat to begin with" - Good point/question.

For me, what I hv noticed is that cheating is on the rise and the numbers clim by the minute. It's become part of society almost and second nature.

To me what became more important as I navigate the world of dating/relationships, is to be truth to what I stand for and have zero tolerance for cheaters. For me there is no such thing as a second chance, why? B/C yes, I feel that there is a pretty good chance that the cheating will occur again and I don't want to baby sit a person. I don't want to keep up w/where a person is going, who he talks to, how long he's online, etc. I am putting my PEACE over having a mate.

Now, for those who have years invested and their mate shows signs that it was a true one time occurence (this is a small num of ppl I am afriad) - sure, give it a shot. As for me - I have no reason to save a marriage - no kids w/any1 - my kids are all young adults - so yes, one strike, I am out. The pain of rebuilding is real - so the situation/mate has to be truly, truly worth it. Can't be simply b/c we don't see our lives w/o them - at some point we all going to die :)

SheenRe, you said: " I'm not sure why they cheat to begin with...which is bucket full of lies that serve their momentary slef-serving attitudes...pretty much."

I"m not sure there is a good why they cheat, though plenty of explanations. In the end, it makes no logical sense.

" I don't know why they bother to confess anything after being caught...because they're already caught."

Because in most cases, the BS doesn't know the full story. If the CS is honestly wanting to save their marriage, they'll get rid of all the ticking time-bomb secrets that if discovered, would erase months or years of rebuilding. Getting it all out at one time so there is nothing left to hide is the only way to successfully rebuild trust. No more lies.

"I can see someone confessing before they get caught if they've figured out that for whatever strange reason they want to maintain the marriage relationship after they've already trashed it. And yet, that seems counterproductive too. What is there to gain from telling at that point. If the BS is completely unaware, what good is the confession, but to serve the CS?"

The A is like a cancer on the relationship. Such marriage-destroying secrets create no-intimacy pockets, and that tends to extend to other areas of the relationship because the CS doesn't want the BS to get too close. Fact is, marriage is a two-person journey. If one person is riddled with guilt because they know they've done something terrible to the other, it will destroy the marriage. The only way that gets fixed potentially into a healthy relationship is if the truth comes out and they both work to heal. Until then, very little healing will take place, and if never discovered, the poison will come out in the marriage in other ways.

Additionally, it is potentially easier in the long term to rebuilt trust if the CS confesses instead of having to get caught. At least it shows they felt guilty enough to not continue lying to you. We all say that deceit is just as bad as the infidelity. It sounds to me you're saying you'd rather they lie to you, keep it a dark, hidden secret the damage they did to the marriage, and live a fantasy.

If that is what more BS's now think than did the last time we ran that question (Are you glad you found out about the A?), I may have to revise that article a bit. But I think the reasons I listed are valid for most BSs.

But a lot of that is in the article.

Cole: I commented in sheer retrospect. In fact, over six years post-discovery. And, the way I feel now has litte comparison to how I felt then at discover. The discovery and aftermath seems to have changed me permanently...I suppose it always does. In my case, I found out first. So, the opportunities and enlightenment offered by observing lies, subtrofuge, attempts at manipulation likely should have been just amusing. But, it wasn't amusing at all. I always believed I would want to know. And, perhaps I still would. But, I don't think my reaction to knowing now, would be anything like it once was. The hurt and confusion was paramount then. I had all kinds of belief systems in place about love and marriage. I'm not so sure any of those apply in my mind anymore. So, knowing changed a lot of things, feelings, beliefs, interactions. I can never again feel as I once did. And that's really too bad in some ways. Perhaps good in some others. I don't feel the level of faith, committment, connection that I once did in many soooo many ways. In others, more so.

I find I sometimes have to ask myself a very valid question, or maybe quite a few? I have to understand if I am a better, happier, more content person than I was before D-day. I think the answer to that is ambiguous in ways too. I lost a lot of things. I gained a few too. But, overall, I am a stronger, less giving, less interactive, less interested person than I once was. And, as most things, that's both good and bad. I happened to like who I was back then. Relatively innocent of so many things. And, the thing I've found personally about those changes is that they are permanent. I kind of think of it an a rather amusing way. It's somewhat to me like being a virgin. Once your not, you can never be again. Now, there's something to be said for the lack of virginity. And, there's something to be said for the innocence of virginity too.

I'm not sure what you mean about " Fact is, marriage is a two-person journey. If one person is riddled with guilt because they know they've done something terrible to the other, it will destroy the marriage. The only way that gets fixed potentially into a healthy relationship is if the truth comes out and they both work to heal. Until then, very little healing will take place, and if never discovered, the poison will come out in the marriage in other ways."

Maybe you could expand those thoughts a bit. The CS knows that they've cheated. They knew it while they were doing it, and they will always know it after. So, if they do divulge their activities of which the BS has no knowledge, who is it serving? Previous to the knowledge, I can't see where the BS has anything to heal. And, I'm not so sure what the CS has to heal. What other ways? What do you mean specifically? I suspect that the CS will live with their indiscretions, but they've already been doing that, yes? So? And the BS isn't suffering at that point from what they don't know, yes? So?

I know this. I was sure I wanted to know. And the knowing has cost aplenty. He already knew, and made his decisions within the context of that knowing. He knew it would hurt me. He was right. He knew it would change things. He was right again. I wasn't absolutely sure how it would change things. I'm not sure anyone ever is sure. I'm pretty sure now though. And, in so many ways I miss the person I once was. Perhaps that's like missing the innocence of childhood too? Only vague memories of a time before serious worries and responsibilties? A time of freedom? A time of simple joy? Maybe that's what it is? Life was so much more simple then? It is definitely not simple now.

As far as the marriage healing, I'm not sure what you mean? Changing? I understand that. Different? I understand that. Healing? Healing what? Healing how? What do you mean?

Mmmmm...and Cole...I do believe that the CS should confess. The BS does deserve the right to make decisions about the remainder of their life, no matter the cost. I think as a simple human encounter, the truth is important. Why waste two lives?

Thanks for clearing that up.

In answer to your questions, let's start with what it means to heal.

When one spouse has an A, it damages the intimacy and union of a marriage. Marriage consists of an emotional union, a social union, a spiritual union, and a physical union. There is also the legal union, but that is only a state recognition of the presence of the others, and not defining of what marriage is.

When an A happens, whether the BS knows about it or not, the marriage is on life support. The ignorant BS will maybe notice some problems, will feel something is off, but not able to put their finger on it. The interactions between the spouses change due to the A.

In my case, on the surface, the changes appeared to be in my favor. For the first time in our married lives, we were having sex everyday, sometimes multiple times a day. Something I'd always wanted but had long ago given up on happening. But other things worried me. I felt her relationship with OM#1 was very intoxicating to her, I just didn't know how much so. I knew she was acting like a teenager in heat. While I liked the sex, she'd changed so drastically, almost overnight, that I felt I wasn't married to the same person I'd known for 28.5 years. While I ignored it, inside I knew something was wrong.

An A is like a cancer on the relationship. While the BS may not know it is going on, the CS does, and that affects the marriage. The issues in the CS that brought them to the place to decide to have an affair, that are destroying the marriage bonds above, are not resolved by an A, only magnified. The A is masking deep seated self-esteem issues that will continue to sabotage any relationship they might have.

As long as the CS refuses to confess, those issues are kept hidden under the rug, left to fester. To eat the intimacy of the relationship from the inside, so that by the time a BS might see signs something is not right, often much of the damage has been done to the marriage.

Healing means what does it take to restore the marital bonds and intimacy to where it should be. There will be scars. Like you said, one builds to a new "normal." You can't go back to the way things were before the A. But the question is whether the couple can rebuild to a new normal that heals the marriage and makes it vibrant again, even more so than before in ways.

The only way I know that that can happen is if the truth comes out. Only then is the CS free to focus and address their own issues. Only then does the CS have the support and motivation of the BS to do that work, which isn't easy. Only then can the destruction of the marriage be addressed. As long as it stays under the rug, the more damage it does and it will never get fixed. The only way to bring it out from under that rug is for the truth to come out.

A CS who is hiding his A from his spouse, but wants to fix things is like an addict who says they can stop taking whatever it is they are taking by sheer will power. Can it be done? Yes. Probability of success? Very small.

But unlike that situation, a marriage isn't just the CS, but the BS too. The CS cannot fix the marriage without the cooperation of the BS. It takes two to have a marriage. What the BS doesn't know is hurting them just like an embezzler is hurting his company even if the bosses have no clue it is going on.

Like cancer, the longer the A goes on, the longer a past A is kept under the rug, the more damage that is done, the more it spreads to other areas of the marriage, and the harder it gets to successfully heal once brought out into the open.

To look at it from another angle, trust is being destroyed before the BS knows about it. The lies are happening, the deceit is going on. True, the BS at that point may still trust the CS, but it is a trust without foundation. It is a false trust. The CS knows this. That trust is already crumbling from within. As long as it remains a secret, there is no possibility of rebuilding that trust.

Granted, the BS is "hurt" upon discovering the truth. But it is not the hurt. It is the BS *responding* to the hurt that has happened under his nose. The hurt comes from the deception, the betrayal of marital trust and intimacy.

To delay the response to that reality is to delay its recovery and healing in the relationship. It is to live in a fantasy. And like Gabi's brother-in-law, by the time it comes out that he had cancer, he had less than a week to live. Reality will not be denied. It is what it is, and no amount of hiding from it will make it go away or keep the marriage from being destroyed.

So until the truth comes out either through confession or the BS discovering it, which one of the two happens in most cases I believe, little repairs to the damage, little healing to the disease both in the marriage and the CS, can happen.

Of the two, confession aids in rebuilding trust faster, for obvious reasons. Most CSs opt for hoping they can keep it hidden from their spouse. Problem is, if they are successful, they'll never have the level of intimacy they should have. There will always be parts of their life, parts of their marriage, that are off-limits to the spouse. Only because the CS is ashamed of the damage they've done, and they don't want to face the consequences of it: the response of the BS to the truth.

I can agree that the truth is necessary Cole. It seems like only the lowliest of cowards would hide this kind of betrayal from a person. I mean, like I said, it is at the very least level minor consideration for human rights. And, if the CS can in any form whatsoever claim any care for their mate, the truth is necessary. There are far worse things than a marriage ending. The damage to the BS can be so great that the marriage is only a minor issue. I could only wish that an end to a marriage was the most damage done. I know how much more it is than that. For me, the marriage after betrayal really becomes only a secondary issue.

That's why I said that I would want to know...have the ultimate right to know....and the ultimate right to do anything I wish with that information once it is available. I'm pretty sure that's what the CS is attempting to avoid....the rights of the BS. For whatever reason, they have chosen to exchange their thrills for the rights of their mate. Not a good idea at all. It may well be the worst kind of theft known to mankind. I mean, it's an entire life right? Well, twenty-five years or so anyway? Quite the theft? Thank goodness I was unaware, huh? I went along quite blissfully unware...if it could even be described that way?

I don't know whether or not the A affects the BS in any great way before discovery. I mean, retrospect is always a bit different once the actual facts are in. Everything that occured previously in the marriage becomes suspect and is viewed from an entirely different perspective. Or, I should say, it was that way for me personally. Can't speak for anyone else. It was as if some invisible painter had changed the entire past with a swoop of their brush. I could hardly bear to think of any of it. Every time a memory came into perspective, the new color took affect. So, the marriage that "was" was no more at all. To say I was shocked and everything changed would be an understatement at best.

I suppose that I've become somewhat accostomed to that particular hue of things. What a huge loss that was! I guess it was somewhat like losing a rose-tinted shade of glasses and seeing everything differently in shades of what the? I think I had the most trouble with that. I mean, attempting to erase all misconceptions about the marriage past, and come to grips with the reality of how duped I had been. Well, that was over...permanently...along with a lot of other thoughts and misconceptions. The grieving was long and intense. Was very glad to see it dissipate.

Overcoming that feeling of ignorance and subsequent intense embarassment, if only on an internal level, was quite a task. Not to mention, it wasn't my private Hell. Others knew just how duped I had been. Wow, devastating to say the least. And, overcoming the feelings of embarrassment that I could have been so committed...when likely I should have been committed...as an inpatient...to think as I once did. I must have looked soooo? What the! And yet, that was "my" personal reality before D-day. I thought we had a real "love" marriage. Wow, I couldn't have been more wrong!

Before D-day, if someone would have suggested to me the "reality" of the situation, I might have thought them quite irrational. I found that I was irrational instead. Whoo...hooo! Ah, not entirely true...if what one reads is to be acknowledged...that the world is as we see it...and each individual sees it differently. If that is in fact true, then my perspective was always true...for me. Just not the other.

I was, however, very enlightened. Maybe those shades of grey were really shades of light on the subject matter? I've read somewhere that when a person dies, they see their life flashed in rapid sequence. Don't know if that's true. But, I can say that betrayal has a way of doing that. Wow, did the flashing ever begin!

I remember my therapist asking me if I felt like I was dying. Interesting question to pose? I informed him that in a way it felt that way, as if at least some integral part of me was dying. There was nothing I could do to prevent that. And, I knew that when it was over, I would not be the same person. I had no idea who would evolve, but I knew that who would be very different.

And, yet, I was more alert, focused, intense, aware, in immediate time than I had ever been before in my life. It felt somewhat like my internal hardware was on massive red alert. I often felt like an animal on life defense. Alert! Observing. Intense! Cautious. I guess that's not such a bad thing? So very aware. So very focused. I might well have been more aware of survival of the self in that time frame than any other time frame in life. In a way, it was a declare of war. And, my body prepared for the battle. These days, hmmm...I am that newly evolved person. But, I know, though less immediately obvious, that the alert is there somewhere lurking in my psyche. And, there is a big loss all of its own.

You shared, "Reality will not be denied. It is what it is, and no amount of hiding from it will make it go away or keep the marriage from being destroyed." Interesting thought. I feel like it was already destroyed before I even knew about it. The aftermath of the knowing was only the acknowledgement of the knowing...and the changes...and the choices I confronted on a personal level. I was never sure if the marriage itself would survive it. I did know that I would survive it. And, that's far more important.

You shared, "Of the two, confession aids in rebuilding trust faster, for obvious reasons. Most CSs opt for hoping they can keep it hidden from their spouse. Problem is, if they are successful, they'll never have the level of intimacy they should have. There will always be parts of their life, parts of their marriage, that are off-limits to the spouse. "

Obviously true that confession would result in a far better outcome. I could only wish that had occurred. At least the CS could claim some sort of integrity. Some semblance of care. I'm sure I could have maintained at least minor level of respect. Given that didn't happen, there was zero basis for most anything at all.

You speak of level of intimacy. "There will always be parts of their life, parts of their marriage, that are off-limits to the spouse. " Yes, that does seem true. I find that in my case, partially due to the lies and deception, along with other factors, there will always be parts of my life that are off limits to my spouse now. Though I was honest at the time, as I felt that best...I mean...in for a dollar...in for a dime; but now my internal workings won't allow him into certain areas. That's both fortunate and unfortunate. Unfortunate, in that I can never achieve the level of intimacy that "I" once felt. Fortunate in that likely he feels more intimate than I do.

Our marriage has survived for many reasons, I think. But, few of them are the same reasons I married him to begin with, or stayed with him during my young life. The emphasis has changed from romantic love to something quite different. I find that I can rarely, if ever, feel romantic with him now. I suppose that's the part that died?

On the other hand, I find that I can feel more of a "family" type committment. I know that he loves me, more perhaps in ways than ever. But, I can never, ever, truly believe now that there is anything remotely romantic in our relationship. I think that sexual betrayal may well be the death of romantic feelings for me. I think if I were to attempt to describe the loss, that is the part that died inside me.

What is there, what presents, what is portrayed, seems only a guise for other reasons. I know it's that way for me. I do love him. I do care what happens in his life. I was, and am, honest about that. I told him long before this immediate betrayal that betrayal results in the death of many things for me, and that I have no control over that...it just is. So, I know, and he knows, that he was willing to exchange those feelings for something else. I can't erase that choice. He can't erase that choice. I had the choice to either accept the reduced feelings, or divorce and chuck it all. For many reasons, I chose the former. Seems little, or no, need to chuck it all this late in our lives.

I know that he finally "chose" me as his lifetime mate. Unfortunately, I feel like he did that when it was a bit late. He did that after he had destroyed my ability to be completely intimate with him. I had been. I was. But, I find that now I can't. So, there is the problem. There are many facets of me that are reserved now, if they exist at all. In my current estimation, just because the truth is revealed and decisions are made to continue the new relationship does mean that it is an equal to where I have been. It may be alright. It may be ok. It may even be a good facsimile of what I once was capable of....but it is not whole. And, I can see no way it can ever be. That's a bit distressing, though I don't let it dictate my everyday living. There are far too many other things in life to let that rein as first importance. It isn't now, though it once was.

So, yes, I believe that the BS has the right to know. And, I believe that the CS must accept the results of their behavior. And each may well have to accept a different and somewhat less involved relationship than once was, or might have been, or could have been.

Sheenre - I like what you said about how, at the time of discovery, it really does change core belief systems/ideals we have about marriage and "love". When that trust is broken in such an intimate way, I don't see how there can be feelings of true "love" still invloved, when you know the CS is capable of "going there".

I believe it would not affect me today as it did with my ex. I believe it has changed my thoughts/reactions/connections in such a way that, while sounding negative, it's just being realisitc. When the person you loved does that to you, I don't see how someone can continue wearing the rose colored glasses and skipping through life.

Unless that person didn't love the CS they way they proclaimed, and then I can see where it wouldn't affect them too much.

SheenRe,

Good response and I can relate to much of what you said, even though in our case, the romantic love has increased from pre-dday. I think for me, seeing Gabi's sacrifice to save the marriage, and how few CSs pull that off with as much gusto from the get-go, re-proved her love for me.

I do think confessing is the CSs best chance at healing the damage done by an A, but it is no guarantee. No one person is going to respond the same as another. True healing takes both spouses healing. The CS healing is key, but the CS can do everything right and the BS not get there.

Whether a CS realizes it or not, when they decide to have an A, decide to flirt, decide to sex chat, whatever boundary they are deciding it is okay to cross, they are risking losing their spouse. They are putting their marriage on the wheel and gambling they won't lose it.

My point in healing the marriage, the CS, in general, should confess, is dealing with probabilities. Without confession, there is little to no chance the marriage will be healed from the A. With confession, the odds go up drastically, especially if the CS is so committed to rebuilding they do the hard things, like successfully keeping no contact and letting their feelings for the AP die a slow and painful death But there is no 100% guarantee it will heal because the CS does everything right. The BS also has to heal.

And you are very correct about it not being like before. Very correct that some things can and do die. I related what happens to a house that gets severely damaged by a storm. Remodeling is out of the question. It is called rebuilding for a reason. You salvage what you can, haul away the debris, inspect the foundation. If good, you can build a *new* house on the same foundation. If the foundation is destroyed too (maybe it wasn't in good shape before the storm), and it isn't or can't get repaired, one is only left with finding another location to build a new marital "house."

What replaces it, usually called the "new normal" is either better or worse than before. If it is the same it will feel worse in the aftermath of the A. The marriage has to be rebuilt to be better than before to heal to a "vibrant marriage." If one doesn't like the new normal, one either learns to live with it as you have, divorce, or if possible, find the way to heal that aspect of the M as well.

You said, " I feel like it was already destroyed before I even knew about it. The aftermath of the knowing was only the acknowledgement of the knowing...and the changes...and the choices I confronted on a personal level."

Exactly my point in saying the BS is hurt and the marriage damaged even if the BS doesn't know about it. Sure, they are not crying their eyes out. They're not experiencing heart palpitations from the stress (I feared my body might just stop working at one point from the stress). But they should be.

It's like someone who gets cuts but can't feel the hurt. The reality is they are bleeding to death. The fact that they are oblivious to it has little bearing on whether they are hurt or not. The only difference is they are not stressed out about it. The other difference is until they discover the wound and get stressed out about it, they will die if the cut is big enough (and A's leave pretty huge cuts).

An A is only a symptom of problems. Certainly an issue in the CS, often, but not always, fueled by marriage issues, which are also fueled by issues within and between the two spouses. Those issues affecting the quality of the marriage will not get addressed until the CS admits and takes responsibility for it, and the BS is allowed to address it. Whether they both address it successfully is another issue. But as long as it stays a secret, the marriage is bleeding to death.

That's my perspective, anyway.