I would generally think - anyone who "cheats" while married - with kids especially small children - that that time they are "away" from their family is time being stolen from their own "kids" offspring etc to be with a person (that term is very loosely stated/more like preditor) that also doesn't mind that "fact" equals one shelfish asshole party.

My STBX was only good at clothing my boys - the actual coordinating the cloths on them part - I sucked at that - but she never played with them - not once - she yelled at them when doing homework - her reasoning - cause her parents taught her that way - my reply - did that work for you? - no - then why do it??

I can't make sense of most of it - I doubt if she could if she sat down to attempt to explain it to me or anyone else.

Onyx - my STBX excels at the clothes thing too. I can't seem to wrap my head around that part lol....Clothes and snacks.

Other than that, she is a yeller. I do agree with the "selfish" piece, as my STBX actually said to me, that she sees the ability to not have the kids everyday as a relief. In fact, she said to me that I better go for split custody because she doesn't want to have the kids more than 50/50. She wants her "life." Amazing, isn't it?

I hear 'ya, Mr. WTF. It's a tough road. I realized that I fell in love with the person I thought my H was, not who he really is. In other words, he was good a charming and conning me into believing that he couldn't possibly be living a dual life. But he was/is. I don't know. I don't care. I have no expectations, whatsoever.
After finding out, I felt anger, grief, shame and numbness for almost two years. Then, I just had to start letting go. There is nothing we can do to fix these people. They were broken when we met them. It's like walking into a movie during the middle. Nobody gives you the preview. And you try your best to make sense of the behavior, until one day there is no denying it.
That's why therapy and education are our strongest weapons for self-preservation. I decided not to let this thing take me down. I will not allow my life to be defined by my H's problems. Through therapy and education, we can protect ourselves from attracting the same kind of disordered personalities. And we also have to try our best to help our kids not repeat the pattern. It's hard work, but well worth it if we just stick with it. Why try to rescue a drowning person when they're convinced the water is great?

Well, I'm the oddball, as usual. I've been a stay-at-home mom all along, home-schooling for the last 6 years. Aside from a home-based business that takes me out of the house about 20 hours a week, I spend most of my time with the kids, most often engaged in and observing their learning. I do admit to being a less than stellar personal stylish but that has resulted in them developing their own sense of style and ability to dress themselves. They almost never leave the house in orange boots with purple tights anymore.

Guys, I gotta say this: Narcissists are very afraid of being hurt be everyone. That's why they don't bond well with their children. They know they should, but they don't want anyone to have access to their emotions. Can't handle being vulnerable. Being asked questions they can't answer. Appearing weak.
They see children as possessions. Things that others will admire and envy them for having. That's why they get married, and are often successful in their careers. It's all for show. Not for the real rewards. They're so insecure that they have do everything in a big way to attract others' attention in order to feel good about themselves. You know, cars, clothing, buying drinks for people in a bar. Everything revolves around them or they make it about them. If the spotlight is on someone else, everybody pays, dearly.
Selfish people don't understand unconditional love. So, being there for children when the kids need them makes no sense, whatsoever. My H has never helped our kids with homework. He didn't help them learn to read or anything. But if they make a bad grade, he's all over them for not trying hard enough. And get this? He barely graduated high school! His mom told me that his teacher called her just prior and told her that he was flunking a subject, and that he would not be graduating. His mom begged the woman to let him make up some grades. And that's how he graduated. He hated school, yet he yells at the kids when they get a little lax with their study habits. Hypocrisy at its finest!!!
The list of issues goes on and on for narcissists. We have to choose not to let their behavior control us.

Mr WTF - You and I dated the same species - I mean same type of selfish knuckle head. I think that people have to also understand that our STBX's are nothing like the good folks we found on here.

When my STBX was in the "heat" of her affair - she said to me - that she needed her "me" time - for her to "find her self' - she told me she wanted passion and romance again.

All kinds of bullshit and nonesense that when you have kids and a husband that has a full time job and 3 hours of commuting back and forth to work - that you comminicate better.

My oldest says when he is with her now that she doesnt seem happy and she yells at him even more now.

we put all of our eggs in a basket that was broken.

one thing i can say - before i got married to her - i would watch her with babies and she is obsessed with babies - always has been - but as soon as the babies can walk and talk she has no idea how to communicate to them - or teach them anything.

i figured if she was so good with babies should would be good with kids - boy was i wrong.

So there's more than one kind person who cheats; some who are pathological narcissitic, incapable of caring about others and having a sense of entitlement--and others who are capable of love, caring for others and sensitivity, but equipped with a poor set of skills for coping with pain.

My ex was not very involved with the kids at all. He did play with them in the yard a couple times a month in the summers at my (and the kids) insistence. When I would work 12 hr shifts when my ex had the kids they would complain because he made them watch tv all day.
Now that he has moved out though, he takes the kids on hikes, out to dinner, looking at pets in the pet store, riding bikes and taking them to their evening activities. I am glad this is occurring for the kids sake, but why wouldn't he have done this when we were together? No one can believe how he is just so doting on them now.

There is obviously some correlation between selfish people and bad parenting but on the whole, not all cheaters can be termed bad parents. Some cheaters are simply being selfish, others are using the affair as escapism (from problems/trauma), others have a real addiction. But no matter what, affairs can definitely diminish a parent's effectiveness as a mom or dad.

When a parent cheats, it's not only cheating on the spouse, it's cheating on the kids...taking (much) time and energy away from the family and investing that time and energy on something that returns no profits to the family.

I've heard some cheaters say that their affair made them "happier and more content" in their regular home life but that definitely wasn't the case for me. My affair made me distracted, and often anxious. There was a noticeable disconnect and distancing between me and my H & kids. I was in a haze all the time, every moment defaulted to OM. I could *see* it and I felt guilty but I couldn't stop it. That's when I knew that for me, cheating isn't just about being selfish, or being an a$$hole, there's something that has to be fixed inside me. The good news is, the A is over and the disconnect is dissolving. I was not a "bad" parent during the affair but I was not as good of a parent as I am, normally.

And some use their kids to garner sympathy and compassionate -- emotions they won't allow themselves to tap into -- from their victims. My H took our kids to his AP's job -- a museum one day during the summer. I was at work and he called to boast about it. He had never taken the kids anywhere without me. Certainly never on any educational jaunts. When I found out about the A and did some background searches on this woman, then I knew that the trip had nothing to do with the kids and everything to do with the great father image he was trying to portray.

Yes - SweetBella1 - that is actually a very good way of stating it - an escape mechanism - that is actually dead on.

My STBX was not happy with herself - was depressed - was not we didnt have the kind of money she wanted to buy whatever and go on long vacations. She had a hard time relating to people - even her own kids and some other narcissitic/preditor comes along and tells her she is "awesome" in every way shape and form and then gets addicted to that - as well as her resentment for everyone not kissing her ass fulltime and her not having nannies and maids and her having to do some work - unlike her sister back in her country (who her sister has nannies and maids and her parents live next store and take care of everything for her sister) - entitlement.

So she escapes into happiness via sin.

I hear she lost her wallet the other day and her tire did go flat on the road - the karma train is coming.

What she should have done was said to me - ok - lets figure out how we can get out of our financial situation - instead of her putting the all the pressure on me - her cancelling her gym membership where she meet awesome AP - learned how to communicate better - she was not in it for the long haul - she was in it for a temporary situation - then pulled her affair escape cord to go into lala land - which I don't care but I have 2 small boys with her. If it wasn't for them - I would say thank god I found this out about her.