I think cheaters can be good parents if you're defining it as day-to-day things like spending time with kids, making sure they have what they need, etc. Heck - there are alcoholics who are brilliant artists. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

The problem is that infidelity can inflict some long-term damage. There have children of DS members who have gotten into cutting and other acting-out behavior to deal with the chaos in their family. My own daughter still has some trust issues and is angry at her dad for compromising her feeling of safety and it will take some time to get past that.

I don't know if its so much as good vs. bad but the level of damage a cheating parent can do to the marriage, the family and ultimately the kids.

If choosing actions within the context of marriage which could lead to a broken home and devastation for the children constitutes being a bad parent, then how many BS would that also apply to? How about the one who controls the relationship by withholding emotionally from their partner? Or the one who punishes every perceived slight by withholding sex? Or the one who uses alcohol, shopping, drugs, too much food, bingo, etcetera in order to prop up low self esteem?

At some point I think that the relationship of the parents needs to be seen as a separate entity from the children. We were people before we got married and had kids, and we will continue to be after the kids are grown and gone, and we have to live with each other as individuals. When there are dysfunctions within the marriage with which one partner or the other refuses to deal, the marriage will break down. Cheating is only one of many possibilities. Are all parents who allow their marriages to fail for whatever reasons then bad parents?

How about parents who drive distracted while wheeling and dealing in their high powered jobs to pay for all their kids activities? Don't they risk devastating the kids by dying in a crash?

What about parents who roll all their debts into the mortgage, risking the devastation of homelessness, in order to give the kids everything the neighbors have? Are they not also bad parents?

There are so many choices that decent people make every day that put the long term well being of their kids at risk. Even simple things like lighting a cigarette, and risking cancer, to relieve all the stress of keeping up with the Jones'es.

The question posed was whether cheaters can also be good parents. We could also discuss BS and anyone else, but that wasn't the question so none of that is really relevant here.

The thing is - a cheater may see infidelity as only hurting their spouse, but there are lots of other people who get hurt in the process. Specifically children.

I agree. CS do a lot of long-term damage with their selfishness. My boys are both in counseling and still hurt/angry about the whole situation. One dabbled in drinking and risky behavior and the other went from honor student to barely passing 11th grade. It's delusional to think that infidelity is confined to the marriage and the blame for the damage is somehow less because there are other bad parents in the world.

If the fact that cheating can lead to the breakdown of yhe marriage makes anyone who cheats a bad parent, then do other choices that can lead to the same result also make that spouse necessarily a bad parent? Does allowing any marriage to fail make a bad parent? Or is it possible to have good, healthy relatonahips with our kids even when we can't make it work between us?

Yeah, I've never considered the A as just being "within the context of marriage." It happened while we were married, obviously, but was him making a bad decision that had bad consequences for the rest of us.

Yes, I get that. But, for instance, my husband has made poor choices within our marriage which could have ended in divorce. Does that make him a bad parent? He also made choices in his employment that could have left us all homeless, if I had not been very creative in managing the fallout? Does that make him a bad parent?

Yes, cheating among many other things can devastate a family. So can neglecting one's marriage or losing one's job. Who here can say they've never made a choice that had a negative impact on their kids? Bad parent or just human? What about then taking ownership of that choice and letting it be a chance to teach kids about forgiveness of others and self? About dealing with anger, shame, conflict, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

I think it's important to recognize that sometimes good people make bad choices and those choices do not necessarily negate all of that persons positive qualities or contributions.

"those choices do not necessarily negate all of that persons positive qualities or contributions"

I didn't see where anyone said that cheaters have no positive qualities or contributions.

That's true...still worth recognizing.

I think the idea that cheaters as a whole are all around terrible parents as people is far too general.

I would say of the cheaters I know, they are the less involved parent, the less demonstrative. So it would stand to reason that those particular people (cs) would become even lesser parents during the A.

I know I don't speak for all but between my H and 2 of my females friends who were cs, it holds truth.

Actually, it sounds like the original question was, paraphrased, which spouse, bs or cs, tends to be the better parent in terms of parenting instincts, considering the family as a unit, relating to the kids at their level. Since it was a question of who is better, bs or cs, then discussing the negative impacts of choices made by bs seems like fair game.

Between my H and I, he would readily tell you that I have deeper paremtal instincts. I'm the one who nurtures, reassures, hears their hopes and dreams, supports them in being themselves, and plays at their level. He's the one we count on when there's blood or puking.

My H was the one to withdraw as a parent and withhold as a H, leaving me holding the bag as a mother and a wife, in spite of being told that he was putting our family unit at risk. Yes, I put the unit at further risk in the end. What seems to be implied though, is that it is the lesser parent who will cheat, and that this theory is proven by the choice to cheat. The fact, in our case, is that I was and am still the stronger parent, even though I cheated.

My husband was an AWESOME dad. That's part of the reason I stayed with him even when things got bad - I couldn't bear taking the kids from their dad.

That said - he started neglecting a LOT of stuff - not just the kids - when he started his affair. I guess it's like anything, he became so consumed with the affair he didn't have anything left to invest in anyone or anything else - not his kids, not work... certainly not me.

I wouldn't say that "in general" he was a worse parent, just during the time frame before and during the affair.

Mr. WTF, my H said he cheated because I spent too much time with the kids. Looking back, I was trying to make up for where he was and still is lacking. Emotionally, he is checked out most of the time. Says parenting is hard because his own dad wasn't there for him. He does help coach my son's rec league teams, but fliers with the single moms when I'm not at practice. When I'm there, he behaves himself. He's a textbook narcissist. It's always about him. So even the coaching is more show than heart. Our daughter doesn't play sports, but she's involved in drama and dance. He will go to her shows, but he 's often late. When it's s over, he quickly tells her she was great and exits. Never congratulates anyone else. Can't stand to see anyone else get kind of attention. If you get a chance, read, "Help! I'm In Love With a Natcissist!" You won't regret it.

Hmph - you're actually dead on,. My STBX displays many of the classic signs of narcissistic behavior / borderline personality disorder. She also is a diagnosed bipolar. I came to recognize much of this through therapy and her actions that resulted from her cheating. It is also apparent from the way she acts during arguments, etc.

Funny enough, what you said rings true for me. I found myself spending a lot of time playing with the kids at their level, etc., because that's simply not what my STBX would do. So I would try to make up for that imbalance. Hence, her claim that I was "better" with the kids and every other facet of my life, except with her...