What about a third option...couples counseling?

Seems to be some important issues that would best be addressed before marriage...some important red flags, IMO: "no real emotional or physical intimacy", questionable behaviors while working on his dissertation; apparent discomfort with sex; uneasy with you being upset--"jokes or changes the subject"; no apparent interest in your day and his seeming inability to deal with things outside of himself.

I believe if he's really wanting marriage with you then he would seriously consider counseling rather than lose you. You have more to gain than lose in facing these issues with an experienced couples counselor.

Best to you both.
SuzA

HI and Welcome Summer..... I imagine if he's finishing up his PHD he's swamped at school and then thinking of moving a distance might seem overwhelming on top of it

I don't understand what's "rude" about saying an apartment is too expensive if you both can't afford it... The same with discussing your getting a job.... Why was this upsetting for you??
Was it a nasty way he said it?....

I would want to sit down and discuss some of these other things though BEFORE marriage for sure.... No intimacy and whether he has some problems regarding sexuality or not

There's nothing at all wrong with waiting for marriage however if you're interested in sexuality and he isn't you want to know this....is there a problem regarding sex?

Before you move I would let him know that there are things that you need to discuss calmly and honestly and I wouldn't get married until you have the answers you're seeking

I would try and not get upset.... You're both adults and should be able to discuss problems.... If you love one another and are having some issues with communication some therapy can help with that and it shouldn't even take that long.... If there are deeper problems again there's help if people are willing to reach out for it

I think these would be things couples should discuss.... For instance perhaps you could afford more if there were two incomes rather then just one

From what you've written here just having a good conversation should open a door and I would let him know that this is something that you need in order to move forward

I also believe timing is important.... He has a lot on his plate right now.... I wouldn't move though until you have some answers.....moving alone is a big step..... Gentle hug......xo

To be fair, people in relationships sometimes say things because they are tired, stressed and under pressure. For me, I don't see that he said anything that unreasonable or even all that harsh. But that's me.. It sounds like he knows he hurt your feelings though and so is trying to make it up to you. But I would try to hear him too. If he's worried about finances, he deserves to be heard on that.

As far as not wanting to talk about the wedding, maybe he feels pressure, or just wants to get this other stuff behind him first. Is there a set date that requires he start having serious discussions about it?

I think what strikes me more than anything really is that you've been together 5 years and you feel there's no emotional intimacy. Why are you with someone for this long where you don't feel like there's a deep connection? Maybe he says the sex is gross when he sees it on TV because he's embarrassed feeling aroused by it when he's watching it with you. Or, maybe he really is grossed out. Maybe he's gay. I don't know. Intimacy problems don't clear up once you're married. I think you might want to really get clear with him on what you want and need and vice versa before making any wedding plans, but I would wait until he's done with his dissertation.

I just noticed that you posted concerns about the relationship previously. I think based on that post and this post, you have to really try to listen to your instincts and I think in order to do that, you might want to take the idea of getting married out of the equation for a second so you aren't letting that get in the way of assessing things. Getting married is not the end game.

Wow , 5 years and no emotional or physical connection? It's going to be more stressful being married, for sure. If he's not interested in hearing you now that's just a need we all have to be heard. The list of needs for males and females are very different needs. Is he meeting yours? Can you meet his. I say if your having such a hard time don't move or marry now. Why is he trying to please his dad and not you? I married and divorced a narcissist. It's s huge commitment and is very expensive for a divorce. Sounds like you feel like you've invested a lot of time , that doesn't matter , don't waste more valuable time, I'd take a break and get personal counseling for myself to see what you want and if you'll be happy.
His Needs Her Needs List: Men's Needs
1. Sexual Fulfilment
2. Recreational Companionship
3. An Attractive Spouse
4. Domestic Support
5. Admiration

His Needs Her Needs List: Women's Needs
1. Affection
2. Conversation
3. Honesty and Openness
4. Financial Commitment
5. Family Commitment

I remember that last post now..... Thanx for mentioning that rmb...... It does seem like there is something missing in this relationship from your last post as well

I think you need to have a very straight forward discussion with your boyfriend.... There is a lot of help if you both want to be together and put effort into making this work...

It is unusual I think to find sexuality 'gross'.....Could there be an underlying problem??...

I would want to know the answer to this..... If there is a problem now would be the time to address it before you invest any more time in this relationship and I would not move forward until some of this is addressed

Thank you so much for all your helpful responses : )

I completely forgot to include the link to my last post as part of this post : https://www.dailystrength.org/group/healthy-relationships/discussion/confused-and-hurt-by-boyfriend-s-behavior


I am taking your advice and getting counseling, for myself and for both of us so that I can better figure out what to do, especially with the physical and emotional intimacy issues we are having.

To answer some of your questions:

****I don't understand what's "rude" about saying an apartment is too expensive if you both can't afford it... The same with discussing your getting a job.... Why was this upsetting for you??
Was it a nasty way he said it?.... ****
Yes. He did say those things in a nasty, sarcastic way. He was also contradicting everything I was saying. For instance, I told him that I wanted a small wedding, and then he told me that he wanted a big wedding. If he was concerned about finances, I think he would agree with me about wanting a small wedding. I also do not think he would have had enough money to just pay for a brand new car out of pocket if he was concerned about finances....lol.
It was also what he was saying about wanting his dad to come apartment hunting with him, instead of me. He just did not seem very excited about including me as part of his life.

*****As far as not wanting to talk about the wedding, maybe he feels pressure, or just wants to get this other stuff behind him first. Is there a set date that requires he start having serious discussions about it? ******
He already finished his dissertation on Thursday March 30. He is moving to Washington DC in the middle of May. His job starts May 22. I told him I would not move up with him unless we are married. He later told me he would ask me sometime between March 30 and before he left. He is talking about taking me to the beach on April 28. I am 99 percent sure this is when he wants to propose because we have never been on a vacation by ourselves before. I have taken him on a couple of family vacations, but it has never been the two of us.

****Why are you with someone for this long where you don't feel like there's a deep connection?*****
I do not feel like there is a deep connection, but I do love him and believe you should be loyal and faithful to the ones you love. I do not think you should leave someone you love unless you have exhausted every possible option. I do not believe that I have exhausted every possible option yet. I am going to try counseling next.

*****. The list of needs for males and females are very different needs. Is he meeting yours? Can you meet his. I say if your having such a hard time don't move or marry now. ******
The top need for a male is Sexual Fulfillment. I do not think that applies to him at all. I think that might be one of my top needs in a marriage actually. I do agree that I will not move forward until these issues are resolved.

*******It is unusual I think to find sexuality 'gross'.....Could there be an underlying problem??... *****
There might be. If so, I have never been able to find out. I have asked him a lot of times if he is interested in sex in marriage, and if he finds me attractive in that way and he says "Yes". The discomfort on his face tells a whole other story though
He does not seem to be interested in men that way either, and gets the same, uncomfortable look on his face when I ask him if he is interested in being with men, as when I ask if he is interested being with women. I think he just finds the whole idea of sex to be gross.

Thank you again for all the responses :)

Big hug for you summer.... It's great that you are willing to seek some therapy.... It may help a great deal....
I was actually wondering if something had happened to him when he was young.... I hope that it didn't however there is a lot of help to be had in order to work on the problems that can face us.... xo

I read all the replies and I second what SunCloudJD wrote: "I was actually wondering if something had happened to him when he was young...." It's a possibility that he was abused in some way, maybe sexually. For him to be so repulsed by sex. I don't know anyone who is as against sex as he is unless they've been sexually abused.
I wouldn't just blurt out "Have you been sexually abused?" either. If he has, you could really cause him a lot of pain and shame. Talk to your therapist and get their opinion on how to broach such a sensitive topic. I hope that isn't the case.

Hi summerose.

You have got some great advice here so not much to add other than, no one seems to have considered a possible reason for his disinterest in sex, he may be asexual?

That is not to say that previous sexual abuse isn't a possibility, but I did want to point you in the direction of looking up asexuality. Maybe if you compared notes on how your boyfriend behaves and 'traditional markers of asexuality' you may find he fits the bill? Just something to consider , as if this is the case, it isn't going to present itself as a problem that you can solve with therapy or otherwise. If he is asexual, he is likely never going to want sex, regardless of therapy etc and you may have to come up with 'compromises' such as him engaging in sex to meet your needs on an infrequent basis.

Whatever you chose to do, good luck and keep coming here for support when needed.

I was actually thinking that he may be asexual rather than it being any sort of trauma, at least I hope so.

He has 3 brothers and sisters, one with Down syndrome. The other 2 are getting their PdDs. I have never seen the other 2 go on dates the entire 5 years I have been with my boyfriend. Both are attractive and in their 20s, so have no reason not to.

He also seems too calm and laid back to have any sort of trauma. It is possible some sort of trauma happened, but I think it is more of a genetic thing.

I have asked him before if he was asexual and told him what it was. I saw a documentary about asexual people on Netflix. He denied it, of course.

I just got an appointment scheduled to see a therapist on April 20. Yeah!

I think you need to slow down on marriage talks and get a better understanding of your shared life. Therapy will be good for you.

In 2017 a man not wanting intimacy with his girlfriend is a huge red flag! Especially when she wants it.

You should look into his religious background and physical and mental health.