Healthy Relationships Support Group
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Is it just me, or are popular (by nature unconventional) forms of sex demeaning to women? To me, in many ways, it practically seems like that's their purpose. I am to new figuring all that out though, so I'd appreciate people's input/perspectives. :) Seems pretty straight forward that those forms of sex are solely for men's pleasure and are clearly (potentially very) unpleasant if not painful/unsafe for women. (To me, it seems these widespread sexual practices are ALSO cheating men of the kind of experience sex is meant to be: whole body, loving, exciting.)
I think it just depends on who you are. One persons nightmare, can be another persons wet dream.
"...put the lotion in the godamn bucket!!"
There are studies that support that men especially don't know any different at first between porn and real sex and they use it as sex 101. They try and incorporate the moves, scenes, positions etc. into their own life and find much disappointment due to a lack of realism that they're being taught. There are websites now a days trying to combat this problem by providing an opportunity for real couples to post real sex videos on the site in order to get rid of the clichs and the exaggerated production performance of porn stars.
Hopefully once you do get physical with someone you'll be able to help trump those misconceptions that porn has established in our society.
As I tried to stipulate, MANY men are truly wonderful. There are plenty who are 10x finer than many women. But again,we're talking about larger-scale cultural trends. Just because I have a religious background doesnt mean Im not fully (if not particularly) aware of the ways times have changed both for worse and for better. (Im a history freak, thats actually what I had been majoring in.) I actually used to think things had progressed way more than I now realized they have (statistically and culturally). Also observations.
Furthermore, even in the absence of physical abuse, my observation (from knowing other women :p) is that girls (again, in general, CERTAINLY not always by any means) are the victims of significantly higher levels of emotional abuse. All of my friends brothers get blatant favoritism. More is expected of daughters. A lot of parents already expect too much of children, dooming many to some level of failure. Girls get put down way more frequently and on deeper levels. Many are plagued by unreasonable guilt they are instilled with (as a result of emotional abuse) that keep them feeling bad about themselves and willing to compromise/sacrifice excessively to please others (usually esp. men).
Really, Im speaking about frequency of occurrence. Theres plenty of people-pleasing men with low self-esteem who act excessively out of guilt. Theres just a lot more women with that problem (as someone else here stated, regarding the widespread problem of women with horribly low self-esteem who look to magazines, celebrity trends, etc. voraciously to try to fix themselves to feel better about themselvesto try to feel beautiful [lovable].)
In general, boys get much more applause and freedom; girls get much more obligation and (severe incl. condemning) control. A lot of that is because of history of traditional roles, which is probably not as extinct as you think. And though much of it is in blatant ways, there is an intense trickle-down effect that Ive observe very vividly in some cases.
Not saying there arent plenty of modern, confident women who embrace their bodies and souls, though.
Joyride, I definitely hear you. Thanks for your input, beautifully putdefinitely gives me cause for consideration. I can see how trust and honor would make all the difference in the world for some people. I do feel a little skeptical about the factor of how meaningful the sharing of yourself is to your partner..I know sex is or at least can be very meaningful, but I think its mainly about enjoyment (and often about intimacy). Both aspects are important/significant. If someone is doing something simply or mainly because it is meaningful to their partner, thats my concern. (If its both meaningful and enjoyable for the person doing it, that would be totally healthy, imo.)
Just because I have a religious background doesnt mean my sexual taste and responses have been dictated for me. I was pretty crazy about sex when I was religious (even though that was taboo), even though I didnt act on it. I felt the same way however about those types of sex. Now (and for a long time) I could not be farther from religious, I still feel the same way (even though I would have zero moral qualms about it).
Theres plenty of other women who feel this way:
(online) Cosmopolotin (!) magazine: Anal sex tops the "must try" list for many guysbut it's not exactly up there for most women.
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/advice/anal-sex#slide-11
Thats a great (PITHY) read just gives a few points about sex experts' take on that. (Lots of steamy, romantic pix too :p)
Jekelhyde, I am fully aware these types of sex have been around forever. Theyre in the frickin Bible. That article does not contain any information about the history of these types of sex in OUR society (which is what's relevant to us), nor do any of its links.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2010/10/the_ass_man_cometh.html
A new national sex survey is out. Published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine:
It's funny to look back at the previous national survey, taken in 1992. In that report, the authors marveled at the mainstreaming of oral sex. Now the whole question of its normality seems silly. By ages 25-29, eight of every nine women have performed fellatio, and half have done it in the past month.
(Regarding) Anal Sex: If you push these women beyond the "have you ever" question, the numbers stay surprisingly high, and they're getting higher. In 1992, the percentage of women in their 20s and 30s who said they'd had anal sex in the past year was around 10 percent. Now that number has doubled to more than 20 percent, and one-third of these women say they've done it in the last month.
Clover, my point is what you said that both parties SHOULD be comfortable. Thats not always the reality. For people who arent really comfortable making out with a dick, I think it can feel (potentially pretty) demeaning. (And there can definitely be a difference between used to something and having accepted it and being genuinely comfortable.)
Koolman, the whole point I am trying to raise is that I think many women offer/volunteer believing they are in general obligated and fearing rejection.
I AM ALSO FULLY AWARE, EMBRACE, AND ACCEPT THAT MANY WOMEN HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH/ENJOY IT. :)
Tyler, air five, lol. Well said (your second line). ;)
Rosebud, thanks for your post. I think a lot of women feel pushed/pressured as a result of those expectations. Thats great to know that theres stuff being done to help change that. Porn definitely creates unfair expectations (and sets many men up for unnecessary disappointments in what should be exciting :/).
6pm.com
Zappos.com
ESPECIALLY if its one of the types of sex you're discussing here.
And I'd like to add this one point...its precisely the taboo nature of those acts that makes them so powerful. The repressive relationship toward sex in this continent, makes this stuff so appealing. In other cultures, not so much.
You say statistics don't lie. Yes, they sometimes do.
For example, there are statistics that men are twice as likely to masturbate and cheat as women are.
But when I found the source of those studies I discovered that they simply ASKED PEOPLE.
It was based on the presumption that people were honest.
My conclusion is different than the study. Men are twice as likely to be HONEST about cheating and masturbating.
I have a daughter and a son. I watch them both, I am obviously a man, so a grew up a boy.
I fully admit that I have never been a woman or a girl.
Women account for 25% of murders per year. Of these, less than 1% of death row is female. In fact of the total deaths handed out by the states, only a handful of women have been put to death. Women consistently get shorter sentences and more frequently get off on insanity and self defence defences. Studies asking police about gender, many still believe that women are less capable of violence and less likely to murder, and are therefore looked at after the men as perps.
An interesting study on women and violence talks about how, when mandatory arrests became law for domestic violence it did practically nothing for the number of men arrested, but in some areas, TRIPLED the number of arrests of women. This was presumably because all the guilty men were already being arrested, but police were only arresting women in very extreme cases... such as the man being hospitalized.
Most studies put domestic violence as even split between the genders... but women rarely are arrested for it. The stories I read were full of men that had been attacked, then when the police showed up they were automatically arrested instead of the women.
Of contested custody cases, women still get 90% of the children.
In family court, a woman is automatically believed, where a man isn't listened to EVEN WHEN HE HAS EVIDENCE to support what he is saying.
Growing up as a boy, I had to learn to live with a society that condemned my emotions... that called me weak for feeling
Even the part you talk about women needing makeup and beauty magazines is still a double edges sword. For example.
Let say I am going out on a date. How do I make myself more attractive? I have no options. What do YOU do? You have a trillion dollar a year industry supporting you. Yes, it is more pressure, more responsibility, but more options too. And more control.
Now I'm not trying to say that men have it worse, I'm trying to point out that things are more equal than you are projecting.
I also think it's important for you to know that I marched in the ERA rallies with my mother in 80's. I support equal rights.
I want porn to reflect women's needs better, showing women orgasming and equal time spent pleasing them.
But we are PEOPLE first, before gender, or skin tone... or religion. people, with so much in common.
These kinds of conversations make me so nervous, because I have seen them used so much in the past to justify mistreatment of men... which is so against what the equal rights movement was about.
My mother was a great role model. She didn't blame men. She blamed society and the standard gender roles. She blamed women for continuing them. She went into a male dominated profession and did well. She was respected.
I follow in her footsteps. I refuse to buy into stupid gender stereotypes. I FEEL, I cry in sad movies, I babytalk cute puppies and love to play with kittens. I am as comfortable with a sewing machine as I am a table saw.
Crying unfair! that one gender has it worse than the other does no good, and is impossible to quantify anyway. Someone would have grown up BOTH to actually have a fair comparison.