I know this is directed to men but I thought I’d opine!

No offense to anyone on DS, male or female, but you don’t actually really get a complete picture of someone on line. They are just sharing or presenting without the added benefit of us seeing how they actually navigate life or relationships. A lot of information is always going to be missing. I also think sometimes people just say what others want to hear, whether intentional or not. It’s a form of commiseration sometimes.

I like to think I’m the same on DS as I am in real life but if I’m honest with myself, there is always a little bit of self censoring or editing happening even if I don’t realize it. I think that is just human nature.

So I think distinguishing between men on DS vs real life may not be a realistic comparison. No person is just one thing. I think most people, men or women, want good communication and intimacy, but with the right person. And sometimes people want that but don’t know how to execute that. And still some wouldn’t object to just wanting to get laid either if the situation presented itself. So, to me, I think sometimes it just comes down to a matter one’s abilities and options.

I am not an overly romantic touch-feely person. I am not a cuddler but enjoy physical, mental and emotional intimacy. It’s just that my definition of that may be different than another’s definition so sometimes I think the “ideal” of that isn’t necessarily the same for everyone.

I do realize the difference online is usually what they know we want to hear. I am usually like you....more open (and was kind of hoping there were still some who could also be a bit honest and open.

I'm not expecting to find a prince....just interested in more understanding of what makes people tick.and if men really shy away from some of it.

I do not consider myself a clingy needy person, but having been quiet and introverted for many years, I have now reached a point where I am very open and a bit touchy feely around.people. (whether a touch of the hand or hug ) if I feel they need it. I know how it feels to feel unimportant and forgotten. It feels good to brighten someone's day. I only wish I had someone to truly care and share everything with.

Yes well, we don't always get what we want....but what we need.

Yeah totally get what you are saying. And I always want to understand what makes people tick as well. I think understanding why a person is the way they are makes it so much easier to navigate the the bumps in a relationship plus I sometimes think understanding others is a way to understand how others perceive us as well.

I think men and women
really are different in how they express emotions and what emotions they express. Whether that’s due to socialization or brain wiring or a little bit of both not sure but I do think that has a lot to do with why there are sometimes communication breaks downs between couples. I see it in my own marriage at times where I feel I cannot emotionally connect at all and neither can my husband. It’s like we are talking in two different language. I think it’s because our emotional expression is so wildly different from each other sometimes.

I’m actually very much a hugger with everyone because I agree how important touch is; I think that transcends relationships for sure.

I don’t think you are asking for or desiring anything unreasonable! I think there are good men everywhere. I really do. I do think the older a woman gets the pool of available men gets smaller, naturally, so in my mind it seems it just takes longer maybe to find someone and then get to know them. In that sense it sucks because as men age, I think they still have a decent size pool because some date younger women. But I suspect there are social groups geared toward 50 plus where maybe there is a way to put yourself in situations where the pool is a little more balanced?

Not really sure but I have to believe everyone does cross our path for a reason. I have been fortunate over the years in that I do learn a bit more about life lessons and myself as I do stumble across many.

My problem is I am rather brave and bold here (at home safely on my laptop) I have not taken many risks because family and friends usually talked me out of it. (But as I look at them, they too are stuck , by their own doing in unhappy relationships)

You know I did actually take a big risk and did travel to CO this past July. I did meet a new man from here and got to see the beautiful mountains of somewhere I doubt I would have otherwise. We did have a good time while together, but after the fact I would eventually discover that he too would become one who said what I wanted to hear. As I looked a bit deeper I would discover some of the qualities he claimed to have were not exactly as he seemed to think.

I did learn from that as well. That I can hop on a plane and travel to somewhere I do want to go see. That occasionally I do have to trust and take another risk.( If only I had a fairy godmother with xray vision who could point me toward the sure things and steer me away from the disappointments and hurt. LOL)

"I have not taken many risks because family and friends usually talked me out of it. (But as I look at them, they too are stuck , by their own doing in unhappy relationships)". Yes, this is the element that really gets me - you mention men who are happily married, but are they (men and women) really all happy? I see so many that aren't happy, or that are happy "enough" but not really fulfilled. I wish our culture was more comfortable (and less demonizing) with more fluidity over the courses of our lives.

That would be a bonus!, Veggie!

Though, if we had someone always pointing us in the right direction we’d never get know what it is to be hurt, disappointed, etc but then without those things how do we really know what true happiness and true gratitude feels like either.

Maybe it’s not about avoiding disappointment and hurt but being able to manage it so when it happens, it doesn’t crush us, so we can rise above it and maintain happiness and gratitude despite it.

It’s easier to be bolder here on DS. It’s safe. And too, there are so many vulnerable people on DS that it’s easy to get super close to them because of shared or similar experiences but it’s such a specific type of connection that I’m not sure it actually lends itself to real life, lasting connections always, especially in romantic relationships.

I say keep practicing bravery independent of meeting someone. The more you take chances just doing things the more you increase your experiences and that usually increases the kinds of people you encounter. Your world automatically expands.

That guy you met in CO... he may have told you what you wanted to hear. Still, they are your ears. Meaning, we are still ultimately accountable for everything we do, everything we believe, etc. You took a chance and it didn’t work out but you are still standing. That to me is victory. I wouldn’t give him one more thought. You had a nice trip, proved you can get on a plane and just go. There is no reason you can’t do that again.

Do what you want to do. If your friends and family talk you out of things, ask yourself why you let them. They can only do that if you permit it.

I agree that there are good men out there. I know a fair number. How they communicate in a relationship is, however, not completely transparent. I’d like to think that I’m a good one:) I try to be as honest as I can be when I put in my 2 cents here. In fact that’s one of the reasons why I decided to use an actual photo. If I ever run into someone and they say hum, you look familiar, I would hope that they would already know some of what makes me tick.
Communication is an art form which I only had minimum training at. As I explore myself honestly I feel more confident with it. So I have to be a healthy person (ok with me) to have real communication. From personal experience I know there are unlimited levels of this being OK.

kim, you have to understand .....that is a really difficult question....Age marital status, family, location, children,health, financial status....past history married ?? how often for how long?? Divorced? why? how many times..all these and many more questions can give you a better picture....

I do realize there are many factors. I also do think there is truth to the Mars/Venus thing. Men and women's brains and need (or means) of communication are very different. That being said I wondered if all do simply say the. words?
(Was actually coming to think some are different)

A glimmer or two of hope here. :)

To Yorman's point, how people are is based on so many factors. Women aren't all a certain way so it stands to reason all men aren't a certain way either.

Ah yes that is also a valid point. I do spend so much time now exploring, examining what makes people tick and realizing it is never going to be simple or written in stone
You know me and my dysfunction....I want to figure out all the odds so I know what to expect.
Such a silly girl.

Odds are everyone wants to present a certain way at first, online or in real life. Everyone, men and women, put their best foot forward. It takes getting to know someone to really know someone, haha! I don’t think it’s easy to do online or over email or phone solely because it doesn’t provide enough information needed to get to really know someone. We have a way of filling in too many gaps with our own ideas and desires. I think that clouds things. Just my own opinion on that though.

I haven’t dated in a really long time but before I met my husband I was single for the most part except for a serious relationship that lasted about two years. So that was many years of being single and dating. I would always think, “where are all the good guys?” But it kind of occurred to me at some point that these weren’t bad guys really. They just weren’t guys for me. Or, if I’m being honest, maybe I just was not what they were looking for either and if that was the case well that was actually ok. Because I wouldn’t be wasting my time then.

I think to me it just comes down to trusting yourself, trusting your gut, trusting that if you get hurt you will be ok, trusting that very little about what others say and do or show us is really about us or personal.

I’m kind of an open book on most things but not everything, not because I have anything to hide but because there are things I hold too sacred to share online or with just anyone. To me that is where I think it’s easy to create a false sense of trust and intimacy with someone.

Anyway more 2 cents from yours truly, haha! Like I said just my personal take.

Difficult question. I don't really know how I'd be around you, veggiequeen, or what if anything I'd want from you in person, unless I met you in person. We only know each other from what each other write online here. And in-person socializing doesn't always permit the kind of in-depth communication we can do here--we kinda have to scope out the social situation in person.

And that is it. People are more cautious and careful with their words in person....not to mention can be very judgemental in a matter of a mere minute or two.

But I think I am finally at a point where I know those are not the ones I truly care to know anyway. All happens for a reason. And once we do step out and share a few words and a bit of ourselves (in my case... Good, bad and naughty) I am to be myself.... And I hope to find others who will do the same.

I like to think that I am a good man... but staring in to the yawning maw of what will be my third divorce in 30 years I have begun to think I have a factory defect that I can't find. And now the paint is fading and the floor boards creak and I think there is a draft in the attic(lol), so the prospects are getting dim of ever finding that "till death do us part" I hoped for.

I am a man who always wanted a wife who liked to touch and be touched. I'm not talking about groping or every touch leading to sex, well some times but not always. Mainly I wanted to hold hands or walk arm in arm, walk up behind my wife in the kitchen and put my arms around her waste and kiss her neck and have her WANT to put a hand on my shoulder while standing together or reach for me whenever for whatever reason.

I think that people give what they want. I do these things because I love my wife and I love to see, hear, smell and feel her. The scent of her hair, the silkiness of a woman's skin, the sound of a woman laughing, whether a merry tinkling giggle or an unconscious tear wringing laugh. Some men are the serious, strong type, and I am in the moment of need. But whenever possible I love to bring laughter to my wife.

But I am paranoid and protective. My wife is from another country and when she came here she couldn't drive, or fully understand English or feel comfortable in our crowds etc. And I am protective. Fifteen years later and I haven't adapted. So now she feels stifled and tells me that I am no longer a husband in her heart but a father or brother. I will not convey the rage that that fills me with.

So, now she wants to live on her own... I've grown in the direction of her and her rich, enticing culture and interests. We were planning to retire at least half year in Eastern Europe if not just move there outright for a few years. Now I am adrift. Lost.

Am I a good man? Never hit, cheat, drink to excess, I work full time and supported her rise from no job to now making more than I do. I have spent money on my hobbies(watches mainly), but I encourage her to enjoy what she is interested in to the point of travelling to go to international figure skating events and vacations in Finnland and Bulgaria. But I have many flaws that I recognize as well.

Three divorces... wow... I guess the balance sheet tells the truth of it.