I have to agree with Froggy and Peace (and Yoda). Suicide threats are manipulation. My mother was suicidal. Threats, "attempts" that were enough to scare the crap out of everyone and create a lot of drama, but not really "serious" enough to end her life. This started when I was 14 and my sister was 7 and went on for 20 years. Moms therapist (court ordered after the 1st attempt) had my dad bring us in and he explained to us that it was nothing we had done or had any control over. Mom felt powerless and it was her way of controlling everyone and also getting attention. She was a very unhappy woman and it seemed to her to be a viable way to "change" things.

He is seriously depressed. If I were in your shoes right now I think I'd scrap the couples therapy for the time being and insist on him getting to the bottom of HIS issues. Couples therapy only works when both partners are willing and ABLE to work at it and it doesn't sound like he's able to do that right now. Once he is diagnosed and treated for the issues he has now, then I'd move on to the next step of couples councelling. I would INSIST on him giving his therapist permission to discuss his case with me. After all, he isn't the only one impacted by his behavior. I would also see his therapist myself to find out how to handle him when he gets the way he gets. In the meantime try not to get caught up in his drama (I said try, I know it's not possible to stay out of it entirely!)

I'll keep up the prayers. Remember that you have to take care of yourself. That has to be your first priority. You can't help him if you're a mess yourself. Be strong.

Hugs,
Carol

Momma Blue,
You are in my heart and loving vibes. I can not imagine what you are going through, so I will not pretend to have any words of wisdom to impart. Just know that I am thinking of you and sending you love and hugs

Professionals and experienced people know you never ,never call a bluff or think the person won't do it.

My husbands brother killed himself and my brother killed himself. Yes they need help asap and you can call the cops if they say it. But in no way is this some kind of a game.

This is a life yours and theirs both are equally valuable.

I agree with Froggy and Peace too! I know that this is so stressful for you, but he is just pulling your chain and has you in his complete control. Everyone has to control and be responsible for their own actions. Sounds like he needs some serious professional help, he sounds like a little child that keeps threatening to run away because he is not getting attention. And I gotta tell you too, since I have been there (serious suicidal thoughts), if he is truly suicidal, there is very little that YOU can do to help. It has got to come from HIM and he has to want to accept the help and take the opportunity to change the way that he is.
Concentrate on yourself and try to make YOU happy.
Good luck!
Karen

Wolf, I wasn't calling a bluff - by the time I said "just do it" I honestly didn't give a shit whether he did it - I actually was hoping he WOULD, as that would have put both of us out of our misery.

Your experience is just that - your experience. You had people who were serious about suicide - this is a very different situation - this is absolutely a game - a very sick game but a game nonetheless. Even my ex's therapist said whatever he is going to do, he is going to do, and that I should do whatever I needed to do to take care of myself, which by that time was to tell him to go and fucking do it and stop talking about it.

These threats are manipulation, pure and simple. It's about control and the only way to stop it is to stop reacting to it. As long as someone is ready to cry Oh Poor Baby or No Don't! the game will continue. The only way to stop it is to stop reacting to it.

I am sorry and do not mean to start an argument, but I must disagree with some of the comments here.

I do not believe that this is a game or manipulation.

I believe that it is a form of mental illness and a call for help.

I do not believe that you should take it lightly or ignore it.

I do not believe that you should continue to allow him to torture you with these threats, and that you need to protect yourself from the roller coaster that he has put you on.

But, I do not believe that you should ever tell him to do it....for your own sake, as well as for his....If he does do it, you will torture yourself until the day you die.

Force him to seek help or force him out. but please do not ignore it.

I'm so sorry you're going through such a difficult ordeal while you're also having all this pain and withdrawl symptoms. LIfe can be quite a battle sometimes.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope things get better soon.

Big Hugs.

In case the "ignore" thing was in response to my last post, I didn't mean ignore when I said stop reacting to it - I meant stop reacting in the predictable "OMG No!" way. Certain responses just fuel the drama and further incite already nearly out-of-control emotions. Stopping the "expected" reaction changes the face of things. When you don't do what you've always done, EVERYTHING has to change, as you have changed the entire landscape of the communication.

When someone says "I'm going to kill myself" and you say "OMG No Don't I LOVE YOU etc etc etc" that's what's expected. When the response is more like "OK - if that's where you are, then I need you to get some help..." that's a whole different conversation.

In the interest of full disclosure, my "threatener" was also my abuser, and I quite honestly didn't care if he died at that point - it would have been a relief. I didn't know until after I left him that my daughters were actually, seriously, trying to figure out how they could kill him and get away with it. :) That's how out of control my situation was.

A lower level (non-suicide) example of changing the response would be - he used to do stuff like pulling the keys out of the ignition and throwing them out of the car window, disabling the vehicle, because I was not doing whatever he wanted at the time. During the time that I was making plans to leave, I did several things, one of which was to have five copies of the car keys made without his knowledge. The next time he pulled the keys out and threatened to throw them out of the window, instead of panicking as I always had and begging him not to, I shrugged my shoulders and said "Whatever..." (because I had keys in my pocket, keys in my purse, keys hidden in the glove compartment) and he just looked at me for a minute, then stopped threatening and continued to drive to wherever we were going.

Changing the reaction changes the "dance." If you change your response, he cannot continue with his "customary" behavior.

I Totally Agree with Peace...I believe Anyone that Continuously Threatens Suicide is using it as a "Control Method"...and I am Sorry...but after Hearing the Threats OVER & OVER Again...after awhile it is Like...OMG...Do whatever it is ur Gonna Do...but You are NOT going to Use this as a WAY to Control ME in MY Life ANYMORE !!

It Does In fact Reach That Point...my Ex did in fact Shoot himself...I did Not tell him to go ahead then...and was in Total melt down when it Finally Did in fact happen...but what HE Did is Totally ON Him...no matter What I would have said, if he were Not going to Hold me Any Longer the Result was going to be the Same...you Cannot LIVE Your Life by what someone Constantly THREATENS to do...I reached the Point where my Heart would Pound...for DAYS...my Stress levels were Constant and Enormous...I wanted him OUT of My Life...Did not want him Dead...just wanted him AWAY from ME.

I have someone in my Life now...that Constantly Threatens Suicide...and as SOON as the Threats Start...my Heart POUNDS...I Feel Sick...and I get up and Leave...Fuckin BUCK UP...Life is Easy for NO ONE...Make out of it the Very BEST You Can...Your Choice...Your Call...I am NOT gonna Sit around and Baby NO ONE...or let it have One Ounce of Control in MY Life..

IF you are IN this Situation...if you Can Tolerate it, IF You Want to Tolerate it...then Do so...if not...then make a Plan and get the Fuck OUT...I Understand VERY WELL the Frustation, Pain, Fear of Someone who Constantly THREATENS...

Perhaps it IS Mental Illness...IDK...all I Know is ya make a Choice...I am NOT Responsible for the Choices someone Else makes...If I Choose to Stay...which I DID for a Long time...then thats on ME...I would Never Encourage someone to "Go Ahead & Do It Then"...but I Cannot Say that very Thought did Not Scream thru my Mind more then Once....from PURE Frustration...Emotional ABUSE...the Second WORST Abuse known to man...second Only to Sexual Abuse.

I have always believed that emotional abuse is actually worse than physical abuse (with the exception of sexual abuse), as physical scars will heal, but the words that are hurled at you over and over will ring in your ears for years, maybe for the rest of your life.

Add to that the fact that no one can "see" that kind of abuse so people find it hard to relate if they haven't been there. I've lived through both and if I had to make a choice, I'd take the physical over the emotional any time.

We are obviously a group of strong women here, as so many have survived one or more forms of abuse and lived to tell the story - and hopefully to help someone else in that situation.

AGAIN i agree w/"PEACE"
i have been in several abusive relationship more verbal then physical!thru out my childhood & adult life!
If you have desenitized yourself it is so hard to reconize the abuse!
Mine, did the same as "PEACE"S" abuser= he use to take my keys & hide them in his car! i would run after his car trying to open door to get my keys & he would laugh @me! driving away w/ me chasing him down street!then days later after i couldn't go anywhere=stuck home! he would bring them back & ofcoarse there was flowers, candy, jelwery! & stupid him he bought me a extra set of keys!
ok i thought that was great! so i went & got more made too just in caes!
But HE HAD A SET TOO & WHEN I WAS OUT W? GIRLS, HE WOULD MOVE MY CAR! YES & even toke it home one night! Cops thought i was crazy cause i had been drinking!(girl friend not drinking was going to drive car that night)!
Scared my girls cause my car was in driveway & cops were going around it! & they couldn't find me!

He told everyone i was crazy & forgot stuff cause of "FIBRO"
Then he stole my mail box off house 3x so i could not get mail from X in NJ

First it was "i can't live w/out you"! then it turned more dangerious to me= first he tried to hurt my cat, then started towards my kids!talking mean about them, then to them!
So i stopped seeing him all together!

After 6mo of not seeing/talking to him=
He came back to tell me he had changed & not drank for 6mo & was getting help!
We went out for dinner & concert to talk, it turned really bad!= it turned to If i can't have you no-one will! YES HE TRIED TO KILL ME!
Not going into details but tried three x's that night!
=he spent 4mo in jail & ofcoarse i have a lifetime PPO=he is not to be any where i live even in the neighborhood by my kids school or where i work & shop! or he will be arrested! he knows everywhere he goes if he has info that i'm near he is to leave!
But the point is untill i change my thinking it helpt for awhile but then he went nuts because i wouldn't put up w/his games!

SO STILL BE CAREFUL FOR YOUR OWN SAFTY!
CHANGE "THE DANCE" theres a book
I beleive w/"D" & Dakota
this is a combination mixed together!

He is hurting from so many things!
BUT SO ARE YOU!
YOU NEED TO WATCH & KEEP YOU & YOURS IN THE HOUSE SAFE TOO!
If he won't get help he needs to live somewhere else= just till he gets some help!

I'm sending Prayers & angels to watch & guide you & yours
oxo
paula

Paula, amen. Amazing how similar some of our stories are. Mine threw the keys away one night when we were on the way home from picking up Chinese take-out for dinner. When he walked away from the car I chased him and tried to get him to come back, and the cops found the car with the hot Chinese still in the seat and thought I had been abducted. They had dogs out and some of my friends heard it on the police scanner. The car was mine - registered in my name - so they heard my name over the scanner - about how they were searching for me after finding my car deserted (and not even pulled off the road as he just stopped where we were, turned it off, tossed the keys, and walked away).

I have seen enough of murder/suicide to know that these threats can lead to more than harm to the person threatening. Safety should be foremost - those who is truly intent on leaving this world sometimes decides to take others with them.

OK that last sentence was edited twice and I missed the basic grammar lesson - sorry 'bout that. I do actually know how to speak gud Anglish :)

wow some of these stories are just crazy! i'm so happy you all made it thru and are here today with us!!

Peace, D, and misunshine.... i don't "give in' and keep the dance going. i don't beg him to stop or "pLease nO!" kind of thing.... i just stare at him like he's nuts. one night (the 1st time he threatened) he wanted ME to write a letter to his mom and bro as to why he killed him self. i kept shoving the paper and pen away and just stared at him with my mouth open and eye brows crunched together. he was yelling at me to do it, but i refused. i told him if he's gonna go, then it's his decision and i have nothing to do with it.

later i told him the same thing when he came back from his psychiatrist and told me that i was the reason he felt like killing himself. the very next day when i told him what he said -blaming me- he couln't believe he said that. he told me that that's not the truth... that he's "f#ckin depressed about life"....

i don't know what to think.... maybe he has some personality disorder. he told me that the more therpy he's been going thru- the more his true self is trying to "break free and come thru", shedding his 'false skins'. i also noticed that he says things and later says he never said that or can't believe that he said that, because he feels differently.

Peace, this is more than just a game. it goes far deeper than that. he really is sick. he IS seeing a psychiatrist and i really hope she can find him good help. i really do need to talk to her about him, but i'll have to go on my own when he is not with me (we tend to go to the VA together).

he is in college now 1-2x a week. the next time he threatens i will call 911 and have him admitted.

funny thing is- whenever he is in this MOOD- he always tries to convince me that I AM the one that has serious mental problems. but when he comes out of the mood, he says that he knows i'm not crazy, that i shouldn't take what he said so literally. what the f#ck does that mean??

i don't think he even knows what he means. like i said, i think he may have a personality disorder. maybe he doesn't know what to do about it and feels that the personalities are "clashing" and one wants to take over the other?? maybe he can't handle it and thinks dying will stop it???

i'm not a licensed psychologist or anything.... i just hope HIS already knows this and is trying to help him. honestly i think he should be hospitalized.

anyways.... thanks ALL OF YOU for being there for me. knowing that many of you have been thru similar situations eases me. i know i'm not alone. God bless you all!

i'l be back with more and updates....

blue, my ex used to tell me I had an "anger" problem and needed to see a therapist to deal with it. You can probably relate to the fact that I WAS angry, but under the circumstances I was living with it wasn't really an abnormal state :)

We finally went to get counseling together and he told the counselor the same thing. Around the third session she started talking about how HE needed to take some responsibility and own his part of the issues between us, and he didn't want to go back after that. I continued to see her, and she was the one he called when I was standing inside the State Police headquarters where I drove to when he was following (stalking) me after I left.

She told the State Police to do whatever they had to do because he wasn't going to respond to anything rational. He was actually standing out in the parking lot at that point and telling a trooper that I was the one with a problem. Yeah...that's why I was inside a locked door and they had a cop outside with him

Been there my friend :)