Some parents have not abused their children, and yet have been falsely accused of it. Just as there are children whose abuse has never come to light. We must be open to all who seek support.

We are open to all, but I also remember you telling a daughter who came here to finally tell her story and get it all out that she should be a good daughter and respect her mother. I spoke up on that. And I've spoke up on other things.

You're a man who suffered childhood abuse and you join us and we all help each other and too many have suffered. Your OP above was about whether people should cut off their parents and then you answered "for most people, the answer is no." How you can come to the conclusion on this board to just say NO without hearing their stories is very telling because this board is predominantly women.

Then you went on to explain there are different thresholds for tolerating abusive behavior . . . and to give it some thought before you walk because it may end up being a bridge of no return. As minor children, we women had no control over abuse and you suffered that also. But as adults, we women have the power to decide if we want to break the cycle of abuse, particularly if we have children of our own to not have them witness it.

Abuse is abuse and is not okay in any form. And for some people, they don't believe women have equality with men and be dismissive of abuse. Women don't have equality throughout the world and in some countries are considered less in birth than a man child, are the ones who are sold into prostitution in some countries by their parents, have no rights and are put into marriage without any say, and once with their husbands have no rights. We see some of that flow even into the U.S. and it ends up in the newspapers and usually the police. Not everyone in the U.S. believes that women/children have equal rights and they use abuse on them. Families sometimes keep abuse secret so now the victims come to online boards and we get mostly adult daughters who are trying to piece together the why and deal with their parents now.

As to mistakes, minor children always make mistakes and that is because adults teach them what they do and it is how they learn and parents don't hold it against them. Parents on the other hand can go for parenting classes while pregnant and read books and get help from so many places if they are not sure how to deal with a minor child--but it's not okay to use abuse and label it a mistake. A mistake is putting the wrong label on the mailing envelope.

ATGB, I am not a woman but I will not take a back seat on the issue of equal rights for women. I raised 3 daughters and a foster daughter from her pre-teen years. One of my natural daughters is estranged from me but none of them would ever say that I demean women in any way. Not even my evil ex-wife would say that about me. In the case where I suggested that a young woman give her mother a chance, the only serious complaint that she had was that her mother wouldn't let her date a boy. I'm sorry, but that is not abuse in my book. Some people find abuse hidden under every rock, but I think that is a destructive mentality too. The last thing I wanted to do was instill a "victim mentality" into my daughters' minds. I am always open to helping women and all abuse victims. You make the mistake of concluding that everyone who claims abuse has actually been victimized. Young people especially, can be confused about this and we should not add to their confusion. If their parents tell them they are "stupid," of course, that is abuse. But if their parents tell them to do homework 4 hours each night and not date boys until they are 16 - I don't consider that abuse. It might be a tough upbringing and its probably ill-advised, but it is not abuse in my book. Your statement that I conclude there is no abuse without hearing the stories of young people is patently absurd. You have a need to attack others with no basis for doing so. I have not done that to you. You should get that checked out.

In a post here, you told the young woman a lot of things, but also told her to be a good girl and respect her mother. She had told us, among other things, that her mom had been found to be emotionally abusive with her by an agency. She said:

3. I was told my Mother's comments weren't "normal" by my friends when i came venting to them. I would often tell them my Mom dad told me that I was the reason she didn't want to live anymore. That I would cause anyone suffering and she just wants a good child. She still says thing like these..and much more, but somehow I can't recall most of them, mysteriously. It's like she makes me forget them. She told me the other day that she hope God takes her. I asked her why and she replied, "Because of you."

4. She hates me..most probably. She calls me a traitor when I go out with my Dad because he brings his wife. Truth is, I don't want to go out with my dad. I just do it to make him soft so he'd give us a bit more money now that pension's real low. Of course, I don't tell anyone my real reason. Last year, when i went to Dads house for new years even, Mom told me that was so glad I went to eat with "them" so she could take a mini-vacation from me. I don't think there's a week where she doesn't tell me I betray her at least 3 times.

5. Yes, I can be rude to Mom. I call her stupid when I'm about to burst inside. And I tell her to be quiet because she doesn't know anything. Yes, I sometimes slam my door. Yes, I know, since I do these things, then no wonder I get told those things.

6. I called Social Services late 2011 after my teacher told me to. It was VERY hard to express myself to the social worker because they just couldn't understand WHAT was wrong..because they don't live with her. They just say that she was mad at the time. However, I was determined to speak up. Case was officially opened and Mom was accused with Emotional Child Abuse. I was sent to live with my dad for 30 days. Fast forward to present time: She HATES me for what I did- for calling on her. She tells me that now she's on the list of abusive parents and that it's my fault. She always brings it up when she's mad at me. ( case was closed after month of home sessions. She gradually went back to the same old mom after 3 months).

7.Currently, she tells me everyone hates her, especially me. Talks about dad EVERY SINGLE FREAKIN DAY. I feel like it's a workout just to make sure she's happy, being careful not to say something she won't like, pretend what she says doesn't offend me, and go along with it, just to not deal with there rants. Also, I'm currently dealing with disordered eating. My BMI is currently 17.9 and I don't know what I'm doing...I just want to feel better, look better. A couple weeks ago I decided to eat normally to see if that would return happiness. I gain about 5lbs during those two weeks and Mom said I had pounds "extra", my BMI being at that point almost 19. She always talks about dieting and that she has to starve to be thin. Always talks about calories, ever since I was little. It'a always been a world of what I'm eating and if i'm fat. Every single days she says " I regret eating that. I'm fat I have to loose 2 lbs). As for me, my breasts disappeared, my side, back and chest ribs are fairly noticeable, as well as the upper half of my spine. I have a thigh gap, but I just hate my thighs, and they're fat. Mom even told me that they " had grown" ( this was a week ago when I was 3lbs heavier).

I mentioned in the thread about you telling her to be a good girl and respecting her mom, and some else also commented on it. Maybe you didn't think how it feels to a daughter from a divided household living with her mom to have a male tell her to be a good girl and respect her mother--I suspect you probably didn't think when you posted that.

I'm asking you to start thinking in responses. Like your original post above about most would say no to cutting off their mothers---again, you said that without even mentioning you would have to hear the people's stories first--it comes off like you have already decided and their stories don't matter. And then you continue about the ability to tolerate different levels of abuse but think before you walk because it could be no return--oh gosh, no one should have to tolerate abuse and FUNCTIONAL PARENTS wouldn't have the daughter leaving and then at some later day saying no return.

If you want moms to post then let them and you can't post for them. If you let them, they will speak up.

Anyway, I'm done in this thread.

Abuse is abuse and it comes in many forms. Don't like when you say "some have not been abused". Please check the luke173ministries.org website on what is abuse. Even belittling your daughter is abuse! Most of us women here understand what we went through, and I know my abuse was not as severe as what others have endured. Maybe this site should only be for "daughters" because we are usually treated differently than our brothers were!? It's not that I am saying sons don't get abused, but I am seriously thinking that it is somehow different from what we dealt with because we were daughters!? Peace and Love.

Sorry I thought I was on the other group "daughters with abusive mothers". But seriously abuse is abuse!!!

Enchanting and ATGB, you will get no disagreement out of me concerning abuse. My post said that if a parent calls their child "stupid," I consider that to be abuse. Any form of belittling or bullying is abuse. ATGB, I know that I would not have told any woman to just go and "be a good girl." I don't talk like that. But rather than look for false things to attack me on, you should deal with the substance of the points I raise. Of course children are abused. Children also abuse parents too, and that should not be overlooked - for both their sakes. Let's take each situation on a case by case basis and try to offer comfort and sound advice. If it is a matter of immediate safety, we always recommend calling the authorities or other professionals. Sometimes counseling or school officials need to be brought in. Sometimes we recommend loving from afar and distancing from loved ones. But sometimes, demonstration of a little maturity is in order. Most people should not become estranged from their parents! That needs to be said. And its different for people who have been abused. Estrangement can be very complicated, and should not be undertaken lightly. Many have lived to regret those actions and are were not lucky to have their loved ones accept them back. If no one is here to tell that side of the story, then I will say it because it is important. Everyone who has been abused is not in the same boat. There are many boats.

I think the word "abuse" is very loaded. I mean, what constitutes abuse?

But I do think that if you feel MISTREATED by anybody -- family member or otherwise -- it's you right to draw that line in the sand. If they keep crossing it, then you have the right to cut them off.

If what someone does makes you feel like crap and you don't want to deal with it any more, then it's time to take a break, either temporary or permanently.

One way to not burn your bridges is to not do black and white thinking. Just say, "You know what? The way our relationship is going right now just isn't working for me. I think we need to put a little space in between us for now until things calm down and we gain a little perspective." or something like that.

But all's fair in self preservation, IMHO.

good approach Delianem. Mistreatment should certainly be a basis for estrangement for adult children. When you're under 18, however, most courts will only take the child out of the home when there is abuse or neglect. Unfortunately, children are mistreated all the time and not allowed to estrange or leave home. We used the example of a parent not allowing a 15 year old to date boys. Is that abuse? mistreatment? It may be mistreatment but there is probably not much that a 15 year old can do about it unless she acts out and gets a change of placement for that reason. Its different when you are an adult being mistreated by a parent. You always have the right to choose estrangement, whether it is a good reason or a bad one.

I am not attacking you epicjourney, but most of us grown-ups here on DS know what they endured and what they still have to put up with their mothers/parents, so I would say let each one of us figure out what to do about our situation, without having to pretend to agree with you are having to always agree with our mothers. That "no contact thing" is really the last resort and really not easy to do. Peace and Love.

This is a touchy subject.

I tend to think that teens will have a VERY different concept of what is abuse or mistreatment. I think some would find that discipline is "abuse."

Being strict is not mistreatment.

I think much of it is about affecting one's self esteem.

Making a child take out the trash is not abuse; making them FEEL like trash, is.

well put Delianem. Enchanting, no offense taken and I agree entirely that all of these situations have to be taken on a case-by-case basis. No one approach "fits all." Its good that we are able to put some options out there for people to consider, but yes, ultimately it is their decision to make. I am like alot of people. I suffered abuse by any standard, and still kept holding onto relationships just because. When I finally estranged I suffered emotionally even though the reality was that I didn't see my family any more or less. There was just more of a psychological separation. Eventually, I came to feel relieved, and it is uncomfortable for me now when they ask to reconciliate. I try to keep the lines of communication open, but at the same time, I don't want to dredge all that old stuff back up again.

sorry I misspelled DeliAnnem. Wanted to add that it is difficult to TRUST after you have endured years of abuse, mistreatment, etc.

Deli is right, this is a very touchy subject. For what it's worth in my personal opinion, I think the adult victims of parental abuse out here in this forum know exactly what the definition of " child abuse" is. I also feel they know the difference between vicious attacks, either physical or verbal or just plain parental neglect and children that had a curfew or weren't allowed to date or pierce their ears until a certain age.

Many posters out here have lived through such ugliness that I could never and would never want to feel personally and yet they still come out here, share their stories over and over and provide sympathy, guidance and unwavering support to "anyone" that posts about their own abuse. Some of these same posters have found the goodness in their heart to take care of those same now elderly abusive parents. Despite their parents actions; these folks are an inspiration. That means you ATG!!!!!!!!!! Such an inspiration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The other side of this argument is meant towards those now adult parents that have chosen to forget the past and forgive those that have abused them.

I say to each his own, if forgiving is in your heart and heals you, then good for you. For those that choose not to forgive; it's certainly within their moral right to choose not to do so and good for them also. Whatever gets a person to a point of healing is what they should do. Individual choice....

I think both sides of this discussion are valid. I wouldn't presume to know how many people out there of any age that are victims of abuse of any kind vs. how many have been unjustly accused of abusing another. It's just terrible that it happens!

There are two other very worthy sites on DS for those that want to converse about estrangement for adult children or parents. The PEACE and PWWA sites are two support sites that I would recommend for any parent going through estrangement with their children.

thanks for the site references pd2012. I will check them out as well. It is good to see all views being represented on this thread because each situation is so different. Sometimes it is the very same level of abuse involved and different people handle the abuse differently. That is their choice. One person who is hit by a parent may, justifiably, consider that to be abuse. While another person suffering the same hit might shrug it off as just being raised "in the school of hard knocks." Within reason, it all depends on the recipient of the abuse. Again, where children are involved, it is a different issue. As a foster parent, I was taught that all corporal punishment is unacceptable. Hitting teaches the child that violence is an acceptable form of behavior, which of course it is not. But I think a discussion on what constitutes "abuse" can be helpful. Many parents think spanking is ok.