Just wanted to let everyone know She is banned from this group now. Her comments on

http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Incest-Survivors/forum/15316485-you-kidding-me

Left little doubt as to her intentions. I would like to point out that there will be others come to this group from time to time with similar intent. I personally believe that when in conflict if you lower yourself to the morals of your adversary you lose your integrity and lower yourself to their standards. That is a bad thing because no one can tell you from them if you both act alike. Like it or not BaileyGirl did raise an interesting point and that is there are some here who have different views than others and all should be tolerant and respectful of each others beliefs. An open and honest discussion without hatred and bias is always good and that way we can learn from each other .

You all should know that your group has also been posted on another group. In fact, that's how I heard about this group. Another group, too, apparently has an issue with your guys' group. Listen- I understand that sometimes people get falsely accused. In that case, I'm not blaming anyone, except for the person that falsely accused someone else. I also don't have an issue with people who have been on the SO registry for things like, peeing in public (just an example). I don't consider that an abuser. I was molested by a family member for many years. He received no form of punishment- my family pretended it didn't happen. They still do. He was "legally forced" into therapy, and after about three sessions, his therapist said he was good to go.

I truly need to understand, and I mean this with all sincerity, I need to understand how anyone could be okay with someone molesting, fondling, raping, even physically abusing another human being. I understand the post I posted on the incest survivor board got out of hand. I do try very hard not to be judgmental, so here I am, asking for someone to explain to me their point of view.

Again, I will remind you, the only reason I learned about this group was because your group was posted on another board... those people were sharing the same issues with the things said here. So, can anyone tell me something that would help me to understand?

I don't think anyone here believes an abuser should go unpunished. They should be. But the fact is the laws of today don't give them a chance to change and heal themselves. Most will never reoffend.. Some will and those are the ones that need to spend their lives out of society. Do we throw them all away because of a few? Most SO's are not even given the chance to try and change. There is no where for them to live, They can't get a job to support themselves (let alone their families).

And then think of their families that are ostracized, Children that are bullied because their parent is a SO. Did you read about the boy (I think he was 13) that was shot and killed by vigilantes who thought he was his father. The Vigilantes found his fathers address on the State web site.

What we all need to understand is that there are sick people in the world, and those people need to be off the streets. We also need to understand some just made a mistake and they need to be given the chance to prove it was just a mistake.

If your child that you carried inside you for 9 month, raised to the best of your ability, loved with all your heart was to offend. Would you throw him/or her away?

Sometimes get falsely accused?? There are at least 6 guys inculdeing my man who are stuck in prison coz they where falsely accused! Don't get me started on that! Would you walk away from your man if someone accused him??

Oh and Aimee. I'm sorry for what you have endured. And your abuser should be punished.

I'm just trying to grasp a level of understanding as far as where you guys come from. Suchaslife- I said that if someone was falsely accused, I don't blame them. This means, I don't consider them an abuser. Therefore, it's not one of the scenarios I'm referring to. I'm talking about someone that was correctly accused, for something they actually did.

Just trying to understand..

I'm just trying to grasp a level of understanding as far as where you guys come from. Suchaslife- I said that if someone was falsely accused, I don't blame them. This means, I don't consider them an abuser. Therefore, it's not one of the scenarios I'm referring to. I'm talking about someone that was correctly accused, for something they actually did.

Just trying to understand..

ibeenthere-thanks. I have been called ignorant because this whole situation, so I'm here trying to get myself educated. However, I will respect those who respect me. For someone to comment on my thread and say this to me: "you look like one fat and nasty piece of lady there Aimee...omg exactly how i imagined bailey too look . Men aren't real into the lovely looking ladies on this board, are they. And no, your dad/grandpa doesnt count." - this completely crosses the line.

I agree with you Aimee. but please understand that emotions are running high on both sides. I think it would be best if EVERYONE were to just sit back and take a deep breath and cool down...My goodness wouldn't it be great if both sides could talk rationally and help to heal each other.. We are all hurting here!

Ok then I will came down a bit then sorry.
Iam sorry about what you went though he should be punished and the class should of gone way longer then 3 sessions no wonder he stayed the same.
The corses that happen hear start at 3 months and go up from there and can last year's.
I did see what was posted on your bored some of it was over the top and totally uncalled for.

I agree, but I will say this. I am probably the only person from that board that will come over here to try and grasp a level of understanding. I am probably the only person from the incest survivors group to come over here and try and be open minded to your guys' points of view. And in return, I get personally attacked by being called a "fat and nasty piece of lady...?" And to make the comment, "And no, your dad/grandpa doesn't count," crosses so many different lines, it's not even funny. I will let you guys voice your opinions, I will remain open minded, but I will not tolerate anyone making comments insinuating a family member being abusive can be taken lightly. That whole comment was despicable, and completely irrelevant. Like I said, I will listen to you guys, and I will try and understand you guys as much as you guys try and understand me. But I will not do personal attacks.

No that's not funny at all. I think its good that you are wanting to listen to us not everyone would do that.
My man got 4 years for something he would never do its not easy at all.

Aimee,

I wrote this post in a slightly different context, but it may be helpful, so I provide it here for you:


I understand that you have a different perspective than many of the members of this group. Different perspectives are OK, and I hope we can all endeavor to be respectful of them. I think the most important thing is to approach things with diplomacy, understanding, and an open mind. And I say that for both sides.

I want to provide some context so you understand the visceral, heated reactions you have elicited here. These are not simply the irrational outbursts of some social malcontents, though it might initially seem that way. Context makes things clearer. Sex crimes are treated like no other, at least in the U.S. Most people don't realize just how much this is so, and how incredibly lonely, harsh, and unforgiving society and the justice system can be. Sex offenders don't get second chances, and often they don't even get first chances (who cares to help someone with such urges?). Indeed, I am an attorney, and until a few years ago I was almost oblivious to the cruel and irrational horrors of this world, in which our collective hysteria prevents us from doing much to productively help offenders or victims (despite a rash of laws and years of moral panic, we've done little to reduce sexual offending--and there is a good reason for this). Sex offenders--whatever their actual offenses--are treated as sub-human. The justice system utterly fails them. Society doesn't care for them. Nobody wants to propose any solutions other than the usual, knee-jerk candidates that feel good and do nothing. Governments won't fund useful research into treatment--why spend money on "them." Instead, these people--many of whom did not choose to have the interests they seem to have any more than you or I choose to be attracted to those of the same age--are without any voice, without any help, without any chance, and completely alone in a cruel world that offers no solutions but to hasten their demise. They may be tormented by their desires, but nobody cares. Most of society--even in its civilized incarnations--want these people to disappear. Life as a sex offender, or life as someone with interests that, when acted upon, would bring the label of sex offender, is a pure, unmitigated hell on earth. Moreover, the punishment often far outweighs the crime--sometimes it even borders on the absurd. I've seen murderers and terrorists get less time than troubled men who've looked at images of child pornography. The point of all this is not to mitigate the severity of a sex crime. Nobody disputes that. The point is that this is so touchy because these people and their families are utterly embattled, engaged in a fight for survival with no allies, not even reason. To be fair, I think you need to recognize that. I can't begin to do justice to what some of these people have endured for their mistakes, but if I could, the picture would be depressing and bleak, and perhaps explain the reactions you have received.

As for studies, I appreciate your willingness to consider them. Sadly, that puts you in the minority. Most lawyers, judges, and legislators don't. Most of our laws are passed by people with absolutely no idea what empirical evidence shows, because the don't care. This is not about evidence. It is not about protecting victims--almost all experts agree our laws don't actually do that. It is about panic. And it is about getting elected by sounding tough on crime but thin on substantive, meaningful answers. With respect to the evidence, I will say at first that sex offenders are not a homogenous group. I think it is almost senseless to talk of recidivism rates for sex offenders generally, or treatment for sex offenders generally. A serial rapist who binds his victims and kidnaps them from street corners is entirely different than a man in his 60s who looks at child pornography. So one's uncle may be a remorseless recidivist impervious to treatment while others may be perfectly amenable to it and highly unlikely to re-offend. As a starting point, I'd recommend "Reforming Purportedly Non-Punitive Responses to Sexual Offending," co-written by an attorney and a professor of psychiatry. You can find it with a Google search. It does cover a bit of the empirical literature, as well as a bit about treatment. There are lots of other great, peer-reviewed resources out there, and I can muster others, but that is the first that comes to mind.

I understand the harm that sexual offending can cause. Again, as a lawyer and a human being, I've seen both sides of that coin. I've learned to be sympathetic and understanding to both sides, while working to find solutions and common ground. This puts me in the minority.

Welcome to the group.

Adam

Thank you Adam!

Ok three sessions and his cured sounds like the theripist is a quack and didn'y
T do much it takes years of therpy and even that goes so far with alot of cases